Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 20

[Texana]

I guess I mean that the thread has turned into a bash the McCanns thread rather than a Madeleine McCann thread. She is still out there somewhere! Her parents were negligent, but they will always have to live with that! Many of the things being printed are incorrect about what is going on in their lives. The Portuguese police made a lot of mistakes and wasted a lot of time trying to crucify the parents. The main objective is still Madeleine!

Claycat, we have been through this discussion many, many times. Check the past threads.

Just because some believe that the McCanns' negligence is a) still a critical point or b) that there may be another truth besides abduction does not mean that Madeleine is not the main objective. The truth is what matters.

 

[Claycat]

There are many threads in this forum. I haven't had a chance to read them all.

I think I have come to the wrong place!

 

[colomom]

I guess I mean that the thread has turned into a bash the McCanns thread rather than a Madeleine McCann thread. She is still out there somewhere! Her parents were negligent, but they will always have to live with that! Many of the things being printed are incorrect about what is going on in their lives. The Portuguese police made a lot of mistakes and wasted a lot of time trying to crucify the parents. The main objective is still Madeleine!

Whoa, those are some serious declarations!

How do you know "she is still out there somewhere"?
How do you know about "what is going on in their lives"?
What "mistakes have the Portuguese Police made?"
How have "they tried to crucify her parents?"

One of the things I have found on this board is that most posters are willing to back up their assertions with links to published information or, at least, with logical, thoughtful, considerate theory. We refrain from calling each other names even if we completely disagree with one another.

I can assure you that the forums that discuss this case are usually on one side of the fence or the other. As Texana said, we have defended our right to post our opinion many, many times. I am sure that if the "tone" of this forum does not suit your taste, you can find one that will be more in line with your core beliefs.

 

[colomom]

Wow. Could this be true?

From Anorak Comments today:

124
David Pleads With The Moderator Says:

January 22nd, 2008 at 10:18 am
What the police are in effect suggesting is that they can show first what happened, then who did what and when to hide the discovery, why they did this, how this was done, where the evidence was removed to temporarily (a neighbouring apartment), that during the following days the same accessories then placed the evidence outside the perimeter of the ongoing searches (they know where), that the temporary disposal site was deemed insecure by the lead party and a more secure and destructive location identified, that weeks later there was a difficulty in retrieving the evidence for permanent relocation, that this required a phone call from the UK to accomplish, that a hire car rented for various purposes was used to transport the evidence for the last time, and so - hey presto! - a perfect narrative backed up by a chain of evidence.

No real doubt therefore remains about how the whole thing tied together, so the first question is what will be the response at reinterview and will the inevitability of arrest and sway parties into bargaining for lesser charges? The process either way switches back to Portugal, warrants will almost definitely be sought, and at least three parties will be arrested and charged as a result.

The second question is what will the charges be? And this depends on attitudes at reinterview. One party at least is likely inescapably facing very serious charges and has no incentive to change story. Although seriously implicated in what the police see as a plot to deceive, the two people likely to be shown as accessories are the means to effectively prosecute the third, so their decisions when faced with evidence of their own involvement are pivotal.

The case is - in legal terms - solved.

 

[Texana]

There are many threads in this forum. I haven't had a chance to read them all.

I think I have come to the wrong place!

Not necessarily. But this case has strong feelings, and you cannot take anything personally or make personal assumptions about other people's motivations.

It is always good to remember that everyone here, is here, because they care about what happened to a little girl named Madeleine.

Think of this as a volleyball game or tennis match rather than an all one way or the other kind of place, and you will be just fine and welcome. I don't mind having my conclusions/thoughts/attitudes challenged, because the unexamined life is not worth living.

 

[Barnaby]

Wow. Could this be true?

From Anorak Comments today:

124
David Pleads With The Moderator Says:

January 22nd, 2008 at 10:18 am
What the police are in effect suggesting is that they can show first what happened, then who did what and when to hide the discovery, why they did this, how this was done, where the evidence was removed to temporarily (a neighbouring apartment), that during the following days the same accessories then placed the evidence outside the perimeter of the ongoing searches (they know where), that the temporary disposal site was deemed insecure by the lead party and a more secure and destructive location identified, that weeks later there was a difficulty in retrieving the evidence for permanent relocation, that this required a phone call from the UK to accomplish, that a hire car rented for various purposes was used to transport the evidence for the last time, and so - hey presto! - a perfect narrative backed up by a chain of evidence.

No real doubt therefore remains about how the whole thing tied together, so the first question is what will be the response at reinterview and will the inevitability of arrest and sway parties into bargaining for lesser charges? The process either way switches back to Portugal, warrants will almost definitely be sought, and at least three parties will be arrested and charged as a result.

The second question is what will the charges be? And this depends on attitudes at reinterview. One party at least is likely inescapably facing very serious charges and has no incentive to change story. Although seriously implicated in what the police see as a plot to deceive, the two people likely to be shown as accessories are the means to effectively prosecute the third, so their decisions when faced with evidence of their own involvement are pivotal.

The case is - in legal terms - solved.

WOW!! If this is true!!

 

[Salem]

Wow is right! I hope it is true! Not because I want the McCanns to be guilty (I would prefer that they weren't) but because I do want justice and peace for Maddie.

Salem

 

[Texana]

WOW!! If this is true!!

Wow! Is right. And typically, the way any case with multiple parties plays out. Play Party A against Party B--throw an offer of leniency in--and see who caves first.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Wow! Is right. And typically, the way any case with multiple parties plays out. Play Party A against Party B--throw an offer of leniency in--and see who caves first.

Very interesting. I hope there will be justice for Madeleine soon. I have always had a feeling that there was an eye witness, that never made themselves known except to the PLE. I think someone...who has never been mentioned saw something and reported it to PLE. In my neighborhood, there are a few little old ladies that know EVERYTHING, and are always 100% correct in their gossip...They drive me NUTS!

 

[Texana]

All the PLE needs is one tiny incontrovertible fact to show any of the parties that one reported fact is a lie or untrue.

 

[Claycat]

Colomom,

I know "she is still out there somewhere," because she is not with her parents, and they haven't found her. So, since her body has not been found and she has not been found, she is still out there somewhere.

How do YOU know about "what is going on in their lives"? Most of us really don't know anything other than what the media prints.

What "mistakes have the Portuguese police made"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy511.xml

If that link isn't enough, I'm sure I can fetch you some more!

Okay, maybe crucify was a strong word, but it seems like more time was spent trying to prove the McCanns did it than to find out who else might have. Unfortunately, there is a strong desire among many police communities to solve a crime quickly, even if it may not be the right suspect! You have to know that, if you are on a sleuth forum!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Colomom,

I know "she is still out there somewhere," because she is not with her parents, and they haven't found her. So, since her body has not been found and she has not been found, she is still out there somewhere.

How do YOU know about "what is going on in their lives"? Most of us really don't know anything other than what the media prints.

What "mistakes have the Portuguese police made"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy511.xml

If that link isn't enough, I'm sure I can fetch you some more!

Okay, maybe crucify was a strong word, but it seems like more time was spent trying to prove the McCanns did it than to find out who else might have. Unfortunately, there is a strong desire among many police communities to solve a crime quickly, even if it may not be the right suspect! You have to know that, if you are on a sleuth forum!

Oh, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty. You believe everything you read that slams the PLE? (But nothing that points at the McCanns). Looks like we are all in the same boat with different paddles.

 

[Texana]

Oh, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty. You believe everything you read that slams the PLE? (But nothing that points at the McCanns). Looks like we are all in the same boat with different paddles.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Claycat]

Oh, Kitty, Kitty, Kitty. You believe everything you read that slams the PLE? (But nothing that points at the McCanns). Looks like we are all in the same boat with different paddles.

Oh, Catty, Catty, Catty! I guess we are!

 

[colomom]

Colomom,

I know "she is still out there somewhere," because she is not with her parents, and they haven't found her. So, since her body has not been found and she has not been found, she is still out there somewhere.

Thank you for clarifying your post.

Don't know if you are aware but, there are suggestions that the PJ have found her body....it's possible. Of course that still means she is out there....maybe in a PJ controlled morgue.

How do YOU know about "what is going on in their lives"? Most of us really don't know anything other than what the media prints.

I don't know and never have said I know and frankly, don't care. All I care about is justice for Maddie.

What "mistakes have the Portuguese police made"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy511.xml

If that link isn't enough, I'm sure I can fetch you some more!

No, that will be fine, I understand where you are coming from now.

That is opinion and that's fine. I disagree and I could go into a really lengthy explanation about how I think that the McCanns themselves are responsible for many of the so-called mistakes the PJ made. But, I'm burnt, I have posted my thoughts on that many, many, many times.

Okay, maybe crucify was a strong word, but it seems like more time was spent trying to prove the McCanns did it than to find out who else might have. Unfortunately, there is a strong desire among many police communities to solve a crime quickly, even if it may not be the right suspect! You have to know that, if you are on a sleuth forum!

You don't know me, obviously. If you had been around from the start you would know that this is the very first time I have ever been involved with a forum such as this and I am still learning. I know a little about police procedure but I am not a pro, not by a long shot. I have read EXTENSIVELY about this case. I have spent up to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, researching, reading, searching and trying to use logic to figure out what we all want to know. What happened to Maddie? I would bet I know alot more about the PJ than most people.

If the PJ wanted to "solve the crime quickly" why did they not just pin it all on Robert Murat (not the right suspect)? Or why did they not just say there was not enough evidence to go forward and shelve the entire case?

PLUS...are you aware that the British police have been involved in this case from the very beginning? It was their investigators that advised the PJ on what to do to put the case together? It was their dogs that were brought in and their forensics lab that tested the samples collected by the PJ.

I think the PJ have very specific evidence that we know nothing about (yet) that makes it very obvious to them that the focus needs to be on the McCanns. Why waste more time and money than they already have, trying to prove the innocence of the people they feel confident are the prime suspects. That would not be logical.

Anyway, I could go on and on but, I have been doing this for 8 months and I am tired of defending my beliefs and justifying my opinions.

Suffice it to say....only time will tell.

 

[Claycat]

Colomom, you are the one who challenged what I said, point by point! Why are you feeling so defensive?

 

[colomom]

Colomom, you are the one who challenged what I said, point by point! Why are you feeling so defensive?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because this whole exchange started with being referred to as a "shark at a feeding frenzy".

It is what it is.

 

[Salem]

Claycat - I shortened your post a tad to save space, hope you don't mind.

Colomom,

What "mistakes have the Portuguese police made"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/11/wmaddy511.xml

If that link isn't enough, I'm sure I can fetch you some more!

This really goes under the "sketch" thread, but I thought it was quite interesting to find this little tidbit in the article that was quoted:

~snip~
There were complaints about the length of time it took to put up posters of Madeleine, while an online appeal was only established after international pressure.


In the week after the four-year-old went missing, staff at local hotels, restaurants and bars were shown different sketches of suspects, ranging from a tanned man in his thirties, to a bald suspect, to a silhouette. ~end snip~

Me thinks the PJ has already taken a look for the 'swarthy' suspect.

Salem

 

[Claycat]

Colomom, you are the one who challenged what I said, point by point! Why are you feeling so defensive?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because this whole exchange started with being referred to as a "shark at a feeding frenzy".

It is what it is.

I said "Y'all". I wasn't referring to a specific person.

Yup! It is what it is! We are in definite agreement on that!

 

[Claycat]

Claycat - I shortened your post a tad to save space, hope you don't mind.


This really goes under the "sketch" thread, but I thought it was quite interesting to find this little tidbit in the article that was quoted:

~snip~
There were complaints about the length of time it took to put up posters of Madeleine, while an online appeal was only established after international pressure.


In the week after the four-year-old went missing, staff at local hotels, restaurants and bars were shown different sketches of suspects, ranging from a tanned man in his thirties, to a bald suspect, to a silhouette. ~end snip~

Me thinks the PJ has already taken a look for the 'swarthy' suspect.

Salem

Yes, it does look like that, Salem. Thanks for pointing that out!