Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 21

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

BREAKING NEWS Updated:13:33, Thursday May 01, 2008



http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1314686,00.html

Madeleine: Cops Quiz 'Key' Witness


Martin Brunt
Crime correspondent Updated:13:33, Thursday May 01, 2008
Police have re-interviewed a woman who may prove to be a key witness in the Madeleine McCann case.

Sure would be interesting to see a sketch of this "hovering" man. If my theory is correct, and Madeleine was not alive on the 3rd, than this "hovering" man was probably someone, (like Russell O') who was helping to find away to get Madeleine's body out of the apt. without being spotted. That is probably why it was never released, it is too damning and used as evidence against the McCanns and friends.

As always, only my humble oppenion, and does not reflect any actual known facts of the case.

 

[Silver~Bell]

To hear the latest about Madeline asking, on her last morning before her disappearance, why her mom didn't come to them when they were crying (she and Sean) the night before, that really wrings my heart. I'm not sure what kind of person would then leave their tiny ones alone AGAIN that very same night...the whole thing stinks of 3-week-old carp.

 

[ThoughtFox]

K: There were 9 adults and the kids. Kids having fun and not getting bored and for us to have a little time for ourselves.
Narration to shots of PDL.

Our kids usually go to bed around 7. They were really tired and trying to carry 3 between 2 of us and we couldn't do that, decided it wasn't fair. (K)
G said why don't we try and eat there (tapas)
K Thought it was a good idea
Wasn't until then we realised there wasn't a listening service but we were doing our own.
G: it felt safe, like dining in our own garden. Furthest thing from our minds.
K: if someone had said do you think its going to be ok? it wouldn't have happened. Absolutely no way if i'd had the slightest inkling that it had been unsafe i wouldn't have done it.
G; We have to live with fact weren't directly there and if we were , possibly, probably, it wouldn't have happened.

Here's my main problem with all this nonsense : This was the second night they left them alone and not the first!!! By Kate's own admission!

So what was their excuse the first night? The buggy or the tired children?

The first night when Maddie cried that might have worked as an excuse, but to willingly leave them alone again, knowing they are going to lay there in bed and cry is just beyond belief.

And I don't care if they both have wooden legs and nothing but a wheelbarrow to travel with to the restaurant, that doesn't excuse leaving them alone to cry, end of story. :furious: Why didn't they rent a car the second day - they rented one later on, with no problem, and drove it hundreds of miles. So we know they can drive.

They should really stop talking if they want to stay out of jail, because this is totally absurd.

Also, this may seem obvious, but I thought they were both big strong runners who never ran out of breath, but the kids seem to have been too much for them? They really can't have it both ways - we've got all this stamina to run up hill and down, but we can't carry our children around. :waitasec:

Remember - there are press pictures of them walking to church with the twins back in Rothley Leics. I thought Madeleine was always "hyper," instead of tired?

Come on - something there is a lie.

 

[Barnaby]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454261&in_page_id=1770


A shopkeeper in the town said she remembered them well.
She said: "On the road into the town, Kate was holding Madeleine's hand. On the other side of the road was Gerry with a baby buggy.
"I remember thinking it odd to see him with a baby buggy because I thought the little girl was too old to need one."



This was on April 30th so did they have a buggy or not?

 

[Prickle]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4764346

Did Madeleine See Something Strange the Night Before She Disappeared?


Exclusive: Kate and Gerry McCann Talk About Their Daughter's Disappearance


By ALAN B. GOLDBERG
May 1, 2008

Watch "20/20" this Friday at 10 p.m. ET for more of the exclusive interview with Kate and Gerry McCann.




How come they are suddenly conducting all of these interviews etc ,thought they weren't allowed.

 

[Texana]

They're going to repeat this lie over and over again until it's believed, aren't they? Because it is a lie. There's no way to tell what woke Madeleine, if she was indeed awake and crying--at all now. The only person who knows for sure, Madeleine, isn't here to verify what's said.

So they'll repeat this over and over again conveniently leaving out the word "maybe" and emphasizing the completely illogical, flimsy attempt to bolster their innocence in the public eye and take the heat off their decision to leave the children alone.

 

[Barnaby]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4764346

Did Madeleine See Something Strange the Night Before She Disappeared?


Exclusive: Kate and Gerry McCann Talk About Their Daughter's Disappearance


By ALAN B. GOLDBERG
May 1, 2008

Watch "20/20" this Friday at 10 p.m. ET for more of the exclusive interview with Kate and Gerry McCann.




How come they are suddenly conducting all of these interviews etc ,thought they weren't allowed.

Dear God, they are really spinning this to the full, now we know why they released it!

Have they never had a kid who just woke up for no reason or maybe a nightmare & wanted their mum or dad? I sure did!
& yes I believe that Madeleine would have said if there was someone in the room most kids would so they should now shut up & stop this nonsense!

 

[Texana]

And curiously, this all comes after the leaked remark by Kate about Maddie saying, "why didn't you come when we cried."

Now we have a barrage of media appearances emphasizing that a) it was to be "fair" to the children that they were left alone and b) Maddie "must have" seen the intruder the night before--why else would she awaken or cry?

Really, it's too bad the McCanns do not get asked the hard or honest questions, but of course, then they'd refuse to appear at all.

 

[daffodil]

I thought the programme was very good,the McCanns came across very well and did not appear to be deceptive,dishonest or guilty of anything imo.I thought the Christmas card Gerry read out was cruel and sick and reminded me a lot of what is written across the forums.NOONE knows these people personally not you, not I-we DONT know that what we read is true-that this happened or they said that.We dont know what the evidence is or where it points despite some people feeling they know this case better than those closest to the PJ,McCanns or any other parties.These people have lost their child through poor judgement and a degree of selfishness,it is Madeleine who is paying the price for that but my heart is not so hard that I cannot feel some sympathy for her parents and I hope it never becomes so.

 

[teacherbees]

daffodil -

I live in a suburb of San Diego, not far at all from where Danielle Van Damm lived. We had nonstop coverage of that case for months and much came out about Brenda and Damon, the parents. I didn't condone their lifestyle and thought they made some mistakes in judgment but I still had a deep sense of sympathy for them. Yes, they did marijuana, hooked up with multiple partners, and drank heavily - but in the end, they still didn't deserve to have their little girl snatched from her own bed and murdered by that monster David Westerfield.

So, I don't think I'm a callous, terrible person. The McCanns, however, are hard to feel sympathy for. They left their children alone to go out and drink with friends. You call it a judgment error - I might go there too, except KATE ADMITS THAT MADDIE CRIED AND ASKED WHY SHE DIDN'T COME TO HER THE NIGHT BEFORE. I'm sorry but that's rotten parenting. How many mothers could know their babies were scared and crying for them the night before and still go off and leave them the next night?

When I picture Maddie alone and scared out of her wits I simply can't get to any feelings of sympathy for Kate and Gerry, daffodil. Just that one issue sickens me to the depths of my soul.

My heart breaks for Maddie. She's the victim in this terrible tragedy.

 

[Barnaby]

I thought the programme was very good,the McCanns came across very well and did not appear to be deceptive,dishonest or guilty of anything imo.I thought the Christmas card Gerry read out was cruel and sick and reminded me a lot of what is written across the forums.NOONE knows these people personally not you, not I-we DONT know that what we read is true-that this happened or they said that.We dont know what the evidence is or where it points despite some people feeling they know this case better than those closest to the PJ,McCanns or any other parties.These people have lost their child through poor judgement and a degree of selfishness,it is Madeleine who is paying the price for that but my heart is not so hard that I cannot feel some sympathy for her parents and I hope it never becomes so.

I believe that they were deceptive! One example is how they had Kate looking so rough - no make up, no highlights in her hair (never saw it so dark) & very simple grey hoodie, in fact possibly the one that she wore in PDL that first night! Now we saw her only a day after Madeleine disappeared looking very well groomed & totally coordinated with her jewellery on! This has been remarked on many times. They were sure that they were not going to be accused of this again & therefore made her look at bad as possible! She even drew attention to how bad she looked on the programme this morning when she said that her friends had been texting her during the show last night telling her how rough she looked! I wonder what friends actually would do that at such a traumatic time for them? To look rough when going through a trauma such as this is very excusable, strange that she never looked rough in the early days! My guess is that noone texted her saying this & she just wanted to draw the publics attention to her staged appearance in the documentary!

I certainly have sympathy for any parent that loses a child but I have more sympathy for Madeleine that did nothing to deserve what she suffered & these people do not even talk about her situation other than to say that she may be treated like a princess & is sure to be giving her captors her tuppenceworth! These people need to get real & show sympathy for their daughter rather than trying to solicit it for themselves!
Their actions are what has people lacking sympathy for them & I have to say that while people on forums are criticising them & not believing them, I have never seen anyone cursing them as the person who wrote that Christmas card did! I certainly do not condone that behaviour!

 

[Texana]

I can give you the interviews where Kate said things differently than she is saying now, and of course, she's on television saying what she's saying now.

So yes, I DO Know that she has said what I refer to her as saying.

On the other hand, we don't have any outside verification of the Christmas card. Only Gerry saying that this is what they received. I'm not saying that they didn't receive the card--only that the one item you quoted, Daffodil, happens to be the one thing that isn't proven true.

Kate's words are her own, in her many interviews, and Gerry as well. Here are some more words from Kate:

I went through a phase of guilt for not knowing what happened to her. I blamed myself for thinking that the place was safe.

"But the certainty that we are truly responsible parents has helped me carry on.

"I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...in_article_id=482238&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490

You'll note that when ever the McCanns or a family member does talk about the decision being wrong, it's followed up with a comment about how badly the McCanns are being treated for their decision.

I would love to see more quotes from the McCanns and their family and friends about how much Maddie must be suffering, rather than quotes about how much Kate and (sometimes) Gerry are suffering. It amazes and disturbs me that even now on the anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance her mother speaks of her own self as being "persecuted" for her decision. (Which she has said previously wasn't even a "decision" because it felt so safe.)

So, while I pity the McCanns, but I'll focus more of my sympathy and sadness on Madeleine, because quite honestly, they don't. And I pity them because they still don't quite seem to get that the "situation Madeleine now finds herself in" (to quote Gerry) would have never happened had at least one adult been in that room.

As in this: (From Kate's mother)

Mrs Healey said: "It is almost like being crucified day to day.

"I read the most stupid things about Kate not crying enough."

She added: "Kate and Gerry know they made a mistake and shouldn't have left the children, they know that, but they certainly don't deserve what has happened to them."

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....me=yes&more_nodeId1=132393&contentPK=19907518

 

[Texana]

Thanks for mentioning that, Barnaby.

Again: Note who Kate talks about the most. She brings up the fact that her friends are all texting her about her "rough" appearance.

WHY does she mention that at all? Isn't this about keeping Maddie's "high profile" in the news? The only reason they are giving the interviews at all is to keep the focus on Maddie, or so they say.

And yet Kate finds a way to mention how concerned HER friends are about HER appearance.

What a pity there's not more concern about Madeleine's disappearance and thoughts of prayers and concern for Maddie, rather than Kate's appearance.

 

[Barnaby]

Thanks for mentioning that, Barnaby.

Again: Note who Kate talks about the most. She brings up the fact that her friends are all texting her about her "rough" appearance.

WHY does she mention that at all? Isn't this about keeping Maddie's "high profile" in the news? The only reason they are giving the interviews at all is to keep the focus on Maddie, or so they say.

And yet Kate finds a way to mention how concerned HER friends are about HER appearance.

What a pity there's not more concern about Madeleine's disappearance and thoughts of prayers and concern for Maddie, rather than Kate's appearance.

The only reason they are giving the interviews imo, is to put across their pathetic excuses for their gross failure as parents. To tell the world how badly they have been treated for doing something which was entirely safe, which every other parent has done at some time or other, I don't think!
These are two very cunning & manipulative people who released the story about Madeleine crying the night before which initially people thought, why did they tell that it makes them look bad? However, their plan has become very clear, take a minimal hit in order to field the big one - there must have been a stranger in her room to make her cry - & thus give weight to the abduction theory! Quite a clever piece of manipulation which has nonetheless fooled noone!

I like your last paragraph very much Texana, excellent & very appropriate! This message should be broadcast! "Kate pay more attention to Madeleine's disappearance than your appearance" She should have done that in PDL in May last year instead of shopping for clothes & jewellery, having her highlights done & keeping fit, when she should have been actively looking for Madeleine!!

 

[Texana]

Thanks, Barnaby. The bit about the friends' text messaging really, really bothers me, and I'll confess--I am definitely fairly high-maintenance myself when it comes to "keeping up appearances." (with a nod to Hyacinth Buck-et.)

This, however, infuriates me, because it is manipulative, as you point out. First, the decision to appear "rough" was a conscious one. Kate could have easily had her hair done and chosen a different outfit, but she deliberately made that decision, for whatever reason. If she truly didn't care what she looked like, then why does she mention the comments from her friends?

Because she wants us to notice how little she cares, and to feel sympathetic that she's so obviously suffering, it's affected (gasp) how she looks. And her friends--her true friends--are concerned about HOW SHE LOOKS, on TELEVISION.

There is an arrogance about Kate and Gerry that makes feeling sorry for them almost impossible for me. I feel sorry for them only in the same way I feel sorry for people who try to beat the train at the railroad crossing and get themselves injured or killed in the process. You heard the train whistle, and you ignored it. Kate heard (according to her) Maddie's remark, and she ignored it--again. Not once, but at least twice, she made the decision to leave the children alone (along with Gerry) because to her, it felt safe. Clearly, it bothered Madeleine--but Kate thought it was "safe." Or they didn't have a buggy, AND it felt safe, or the children were tired, AND it felt safe. Or they didn't want to leave the children with strangers AND it felt safe. Pick one.

That is the same arrogance about Kate that made her slap her leg in frustration during this week's latest interview, in frustration that the question of leaving the children alone was AGAIN brought up.

How can people still bring that up? she thinks. I've explained it enough.

And that is the fatal--for Madeleine--flaw in Kate and Gerry's judgment and personality. They truly believe that they've explained their decision enough and no one has the right to question it further. It's old ground. Why bring it up? How dare any one keep bringing that up? As you said, Barnaby, it felt "safe" to them. Weren't their feelings enough? The fact that people keep bringing it up makes her feel "persecuted" and as her mother said also, "crucified."

Note that Kate says in the first interview I quoted that it's the "certainty that they are responsible parents" that keeps them going. Later on, in other articles, she and Gerry say it's the twins' being "fantastic" that keeps them going.

Why is it never about Madeleine?

 

[colomom]

Sky News Interview:
http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/v...lash/madeleine_full_interview_010508_sens.flv

BBC Breakfast Show:
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSaLDWgP6hI
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFqfoxis2Bs

Supposedly you can see the ITV Documentary online (for 30 days) here:
http://www.itv.com/CatchUp/Video/default.html?ViewType=5&Filter=18711

I can't get it to load....

 

[Texana]

All right, I watched the first of the You Tube BBC video clips.

Kate's hair looks beautiful. She looks very nice, overall. Where did the "rough" comments come from?

Kate does not answer directly the question about leaving Madeleine alone. She says that she could not love Madeleine more, but she never answers directly the question about leaving Madeleine alone. She says they've been "persecuted" by others because of that decision.

Again, persecution is a situation that occurs when you are blameless but punished nonetheless. It's something you associate with religious beliefs--which is a recurring motif with the McCanns, they are also being "crucified" according to Mrs. Healy, for their acts.

Again, neither Kate nor Gerry acknowledges they made a mistake in leaving Madeleine alone. They seem unable to admit even the slightest bit of "gosh, we really screwed up that decision, we were so wrong, we assumed it was safe and it was not.'

Instead, they keep reiterating how "safe" it was/felt. As if everyone else would have done exactly as they did. Because we would all also think it was safe. Not based on fact, actually, but on that...feeling.

Kate also immediately contradicts the interviewer ("I never said that!") when she says that both Madeleine and Sean were crying and upset about being left.

She and Gerry go on to say that Madeleine mentioned crying but as Gerry puts it, "children cry all the time, when they're getting a bath, when they're tired..." So that's why they paid no mind to Maddie saying she cried when left alone because as Gerry put it, children cry all the time.

I think the saddest moment for me was when Kate was insisting that this "horrible crime" would have occurred no matter what. She truly did not seem to see that if the children had not been left alone (and the parents or a sitter inside with all doors locked) an intruder would not have been able to grab Madeleine.

If that, indeed, is what happened to Maddie.

 

[Texana]

Watching part 2 of the BBC morning show clip on You Tube thanks to Colomom:

The female BBC host says that the McCanns have received all kinds of mail, supportive, completely non-supportive, and she asks if the McCanns can at all "understand that" for the non-supportive mail.

Kate deflectst that. She does not concede, in even the smallest way, that anyone would have reasonable grounds OR even understandable grounds to condemn the McCanns. She says that those people are just being "nasty for nastiness sake."

So, all of you, including her own mother, who condemn the McCanns for leaving the children alone, you're just being nasty for nastiness sake.

Please. This is too painful for anymore tonight.

 

[Salem]

Okay - Texana - after reading your comments, I'm not going to watch the videos tonight. Seems its been an emotional week for me and I don't think I need to add to it at the moment.

I do have to say though that K&G's response to Maddie's comments about "where were you when me and Sean cried" really tick me off. Young children get scared when they wake up and no one is there for them. It can cause them to have nightmares for weeks. For K&G to take it so lightly infuriates me. If I was Mrs. Healy - I would literally shake them! I can't use the words I would like to here - but how the @#*! did these (insert un-nice word here) get through medical school? Is it only in the US that you have to take a couple of psychology classes? I thought you had to take a basic class in "Lifespan" that talked about 0 to 99 years old. What do doctors learn in England? I certainly don't ever want to go to a doctor there if the McCanns are examples of the type of doctor that generally gets licensed there.

And what kind of familes did they grow up in? It seems they have absolutely no experience with small children. It is obvious that Mrs. Healy tried to teach Kate better or she wouldn't be so upset with her daughter.

I can't stand it....

Salem

PS - Colomom thanks for posting the videos, I do want to see them. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Barnaby]

All right, I watched the first of the You Tube BBC video clips.

Kate's hair looks beautiful. She looks very nice, overall. Where did the "rough" comments come from?

Kate does not answer directly the question about leaving Madeleine alone. She says that she could not love Madeleine more, but she never answers directly the question about leaving Madeleine alone. She says they've been "persecuted" by others because of that decision.

Again, persecution is a situation that occurs when you are blameless but punished nonetheless. It's something you associate with religious beliefs--which is a recurring motif with the McCanns, they are also being "crucified" according to Mrs. Healy, for their acts.

Again, neither Kate nor Gerry acknowledges they made a mistake in leaving Madeleine alone. They seem unable to admit even the slightest bit of "gosh, we really screwed up that decision, we were so wrong, we assumed it was safe and it was not.'

Instead, they keep reiterating how "safe" it was/felt. As if everyone else would have done exactly as they did. Because we would all also think it was safe. Not based on fact, actually, but on that...feeling.

Kate also immediately contradicts the interviewer ("I never said that!") when she says that both Madeleine and Sean were crying and upset about being left.

She and Gerry go on to say that Madeleine mentioned crying but as Gerry puts it, "children cry all the time, when they're getting a bath, when they're tired..." So that's why they paid no mind to Maddie saying she cried when left alone because as Gerry put it, children cry all the time.

I think the saddest moment for me was when Kate was insisting that this "horrible crime" would have occurred no matter what. She truly did not seem to see that if the children had not been left alone (and the parents or a sitter inside with all doors locked) an intruder would not have been able to grab Madeleine.

If that, indeed, is what happened to Maddie.

Hi Texana, l feel your frustration & agree with everything you say!

Regarding kate looking rough it was not in the interviews, she was back to her well groomed self there. It was in the ITV 2 hour documentary. Colomom posted the link above.

Edited to add: sadly the link is not working, video not available. If I can find one I will post.