Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 22

[Barnaby]

Thanks for posting Tony!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Cigarette ash!! Yes, I had forgotten about that.:waitasec:
Thanks for reminding me Barnaby. Just another example of the PJ not protecting a crime scene.

None of us can possibly know how we would react in such a crisis. IMO

Your opinion again Barnaby....we are all entitled to them...Whose to say yours is right.:waitasec:
I don't accept that I am naive either....they still cannot discuss their statements and I look forward to hearing from them.
And how can you believe rumours and smears?
Not sure about your reference to the fund.
Your opinion again....No surprise that I disagree with it.

As for naive....It's rather arrogant IMO to accuse someone of being naive just because they don't happen to agree with you.
Again your opinion plus rumour!!

Nothing but opinion!!
I agree with you on this point.
We may not agree with it but baby listening is legal.
I have never questioned their choice of religion as I believe it's none of my business.
They did however attend a Catholic Church as well as attending the service held for Madeleine at their local Anglican Church on the day you were reffering to, Didn't they?

I can, because I have been in a similar situation, though both my husband and I were home when our (autistic) son went missing, (15 now, age 4 at the time). Thankfully he was found an hour later over a mile away. I think I've told this story before so I won't rehash all the details, but I was inside cooking supper, and his Daddy was out in the yard working. He went out to swing and I thought Daddy was watching, and Daddy thought he came in with me.

I can tell you 3 things we did differently than the McCanns. Living in the country, After about 5 minutes of frantic looking we immediately called for help. We checked every "dangerous" place first....(water/pond/river). An older neighbor lady stayed at the house with a phone and the dinner bell to call us if he came back. Last but not least we didn't assume he was kidnapped. We assumed he got lost in the woods/fields/or river. There have been some shady people cruise the country roads, anything could have happened, but that thought NEVER crossed our minds...NEVER. Now if we wouldn't have found him within a few hours I might have started to think that...but not at first. You think where the heck did that little fart take off to? You don't think OMG some bad guy took one of my 3 children.

 

[april4sky]

Happy Mother's Day April :blowkiss:,

As you know, I disagree about Mrs. Fenn. I could be wrong, but I think she is a very strong witness and I give her statement credence.

I'm not sure the McCanns did tell the police. Most of the reports indicate that the McCanns told their private investigators, not the police so I guess we will have to see what comes out about the truth of this.

And - I don't believe Maddie was unconcerned no matter what Kate says. Again, Kate tells us it was enough for her and Gerry "to discuss and decide to KEEP A CLOSER WATCH OVER THE CHILDREN." Which, sadly, they did not do. If it is enough to talk to your spouse/co-parent about, it is surely worth a second thought and Kate has given evidence that she gave it a second thought by coming to the decision to watch closer. So she gave it a second thought - but then blew it off. I have no sympathy for her here, none. And I don't believe her. If she truely was a caring parent, she would not have blown it off and neither would Gerry. This really isn't about just Kate. Gerry is just as culpable. They could have hired a sitter as explained by Mark Warner and supposedly it was RECOMMENDED that they do so. No excuse. Think about it twice, decide to act better, and then do completely opposite..... just doesn't ring true.

A 3 almost 4 year old can be quite traumatized by waking up in the middle of the night and finding no one there. Add to that being in a strange bed, room, hotel, country and not understanding the language. It boggles my mind that 2 DOCTORS could have such general disregard for the psychological well-being of their own children.

There was no "disregarding." The McCanns CHOSE to ignore Maddie's concerns. I can not forget that these 2 people have specialized training and that that training would/should have taught them how very dangerous their actions were. Can't give it up......

Prayers for Maddie,

Salem

Thank you Salem, I did have a lovely Mothers Day and hope you did too. :blowkiss:

We have disagreed before regarding Mrs Fenn. I look forward to hearing from her and all the others, especially the McCanns, all of whom are at present gagged because of the secrecy law.

Believe me Salem I am only interested in the truth, as I am certain you are too.

I definately don't believe the truth will be found by someones "opinions," and repeated by some here from very questioable blogs...whether it's Pro or Anti McCann....and will definately not help any of us learn the truth..It is IMO just "smoke and mirrors" and will at the very least "muddy the waters"...I do wonder why it's being done.:waitasec:

 

[april4sky]

I can, because I have been in a similar situation, though both my husband and I were home when our (autistic) son went missing, (15 now, age 4 at the time). Thankfully he was found an hour later over a mile away. I think I've told this story before so I won't rehash all the details, but I was inside cooking supper, and his Daddy was out in the yard working. He went out to swing and I thought Daddy was watching, and Daddy thought he came in with me.

I can tell you 3 things we did differently than the McCanns. Living in the country, After about 5 minutes of frantic looking we immediately called for help. We checked every "dangerous" place first....(water/pond/river). An older neighbor lady stayed at the house with a phone and the dinner bell to call us if he came back. Last but not least we didn't assume he was kidnapped. We assumed he got lost in the woods/fields/or river. There have been some shady people cruise the country roads, anything could have happened, but that thought NEVER crossed our minds...NEVER. Now if we wouldn't have found him within a few hours I might have started to think that...but not at first. You think where the heck did that little fart take off to? You don't think OMG some bad guy took one of my 3 children.

IW, I'm sorry your son is autistic. That must be difficult for you and I do wish the very best for him. :blowkiss:

I do think your sons disapearance is different though as you had a very good reason "believeing your husband was watching him outside" to think he had wondered off. And which turned out to be true.
You were both understandably frantic. And it's perfectly understandable for the McCanns to have been frantic too.
If Madeleine wasn't the type of child to wonder away it's perfectly reasonable for them to think she may have been taken. IMO
And I still think under the same circumstance none of us can possibly know how we would react.

IW, The comments you highlighted were my comments.
But if you notice I did not enlarge them. I believe that is considered "shouting" And as I don't do that will you please refrain from enlarging comments in my posts. Thanks in advance.

 

[april4sky]

McCanns mark Madeleine's birthday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7395904.stm

The parents of Madeleine McCann have been marking the fifth birthday of their missing daughter with a low-key party at their family home.
The family's spokesman said the party was primarily for her younger brother and sister, but for them the birthday was "just another day without her".

God bless you Madeleine wherever you are. :blowkiss:

 

[Barnaby]

I can, because I have been in a similar situation, though both my husband and I were home when our (autistic) son went missing, (15 now, age 4 at the time). Thankfully he was found an hour later over a mile away. I think I've told this story before so I won't rehash all the details, but I was inside cooking supper, and his Daddy was out in the yard working. He went out to swing and I thought Daddy was watching, and Daddy thought he came in with me.

I can tell you 3 things we did differently than the McCanns. Living in the country, After about 5 minutes of frantic looking we immediately called for help. We checked every "dangerous" place first....(water/pond/river). An older neighbor lady stayed at the house with a phone and the dinner bell to call us if he came back. Last but not least we didn't assume he was kidnapped. We assumed he got lost in the woods/fields/or river. There have been some shady people cruise the country roads, anything could have happened, but that thought NEVER crossed our minds...NEVER. Now if we wouldn't have found him within a few hours I might have started to think that...but not at first. You think where the heck did that little fart take off to? You don't think OMG some bad guy took one of my 3 children.

What a fright you must have had IW so sorry that happened to you but glad that it all worked out well!
Yes you did what would have been expected from a distraught parent trying to find a missing child, you reacted as most would not as the McCanns did!
Hope your son is doing well :blowkiss:

IW, I'm sorry your son is autistic. That must be difficult for you and I do wish the very best for him. :blowkiss:

I do think your sons disapearance is different though as you had a very good reason "believeing your husband was watching him outside" to think he had wondered off. And which turned out to be true.
You were both understandably frantic. And it's perfectly understandable for the McCanns to have been frantic too.
If Madeleine wasn't the type of child to wonder away it's perfectly reasonable for them to think she may have been taken. IMO
And I still think under the same circumstance none of us can possibly know how we would react.

IW, The comments you highlighted were my comments.
But if you notice I did not enlarge them. I believe that is considered "shouting" And as I don't do that will you please refrain from enlarging comments in my posts. Thanks in advance.

Madeleine was one to run off & even hide from her parents (I wonder why?) She hid in the bushes outside the apartment for 30mins the night before & did not respond to their calls!

The McCanns didn't look like very frantic people to me after the disappearance - calm, well dressed, co-ordinated, jogging. playing tennis. going to the pool & beach, not a tear & all in the first few days when their precious daughter wasn't found! Most of us would have needed sedation just to keep our sanity & would probably have looked awful never mind being made up & having the energy to jog up hills!
All of the behaviours mentioned above are totally at odds with how parents would react to the fact that their daughter if abducted she was probably in the hands of vile pedophiles & please do not even try to tell me different April. I ask every mother on this board to please post & say whether they agree with me or not!

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I am a mother and I don't think the McCanns acted like distraught parents at the beginning, or ever.

 

[Texana]

Here's a huge discrepancy for me: Recently during the anniversary interviews, something was said about how badly Kate was doing during the initial days, that at one point "she had to be carried into the church" for a service. (I believe that was Gerry speaking.)

However, at the time, Gerry on his blog posted about Kate being a "keen runner" and how good her time was jogging to the top of the little mountain nearby!

So was she jogging daily, or collapsing almost daily?

Also, in all the interviews, go back and read/listen to how much Kate talks about Sean and Amelie. She tells us how they are growing, maturing, how "lovely" they are in every interview. It's not necessary for the public to know anything about Sean and Amelie and it's certainly not keeping the focus on Madeleine.

So what is up with that? Look at the year's worth of interviews and see how consistently this happens.

As for your question, Barnaby, I am a fairly high-maintenance person myself, but I wouldn't be able to keep up appearances as well as Kate and Gerry did.
No way.

off to work, hi ho!

 

[april4sky]

Madeleine was one to run off & even hide from her parents (I wonder why?) She hid in the bushes outside the apartment for 30mins the night before & did not respond to their calls!

Is this a fact...That she both hid, and that it was for as long as 30 minutes?" or is it one of the many many rumours.
We all know children like to play hide and seek with their parents...that is a far cry from going missing from her bed and the apartment, in the dark at night.
Not many children would venture out in the dark and I doubt very much that Madeleine would have done that.
Which is probably another reason why her parents didn't believe she had wondered off.

The McCanns didn't look like very frantic people to me after the disappearance - calm, well dressed, co-ordinated, jogging. playing tennis. going to the pool & beach, not a tear & all in the first few days when their precious daughter wasn't found! Most of us would have needed sedation just to keep our sanity & would probably have looked awful never mind being made up & having the energy to jog up hills!
All of the behaviours mentioned above are totally at odds with how parents would react to the fact that their daughter if abducted she was probably in the hands of vile pedophiles & please do not even try to tell me different April.

I will tell you it's your opinion Barnaby. It's not mine however.
I see things very differently. I see a couple who have and are suffering greatly, and I don't know how anyone can have watched the recent ITV documentary and not see and feel it.

 

[colomom]

All of the behaviours mentioned above are totally at odds with how parents would react to the fact that their daughter if abducted she was probably in the hands of vile pedophiles & please do not even try to tell me different April. I ask every mother on this board to please post & say whether they agree with me or not!

In the early days, I was more distraught at the thought of what Madeleine might have been experiencing then anything the McCanns have exhibited. My distress was caused primarily by all the mentions of pedophiles that came directly from the McCanns themselves. IMO, there is no way that they ever thought Maddie was in the hands of pedophiles. They are liars. :furious:

 

[Barnaby]

Is this a fact...That she both hid, and that it was for as long as 30 minutes?" or is it one of the many many rumours.
We all know children like to play hide and seek with their parents...that is a far cry from going missing from her bed and the apartment, in the dark at night.
Not many children would venture out in the dark and I doubt very much that Madeleine would have done that.
Which is probably another reason why her parents didn't believe she had wondered off. I will tell you it's your opinion Barnaby. It's not mine however.
I see things very differently. I see a couple who have and are suffering greatly, and I don't know how anyone can have watched the recent ITV documentary and not see and feel it.

Oh for God's sake April IT IS FACT! Are you keeping up with this case or just arguing for the sake of arguing?
If anyone can provide the link to the article I would be obliged as in a nutshell, I couldn't be bothered to look for it! Not worth it as April will have another "simple explanation" for it! FACT: Madeleine hid in the bushes outside the apartment with Kate calling her name for half an hour!

Contrary to what you see I see two parents who were not upset at the time & are certainly not upset now! A pathentic attempt at screwing up her face & wiping an imaginary tear from her eye doesn't do it for me! I have NEVER seen real tears form either of these two!

 

[Barnaby]

In the early days, I was more distraught at the thought of what Madeleine might have been experiencing then anything the McCanns have exhibited. My distress was caused primarily by all the mentions of pedophiles that came directly from the McCanns themselves. IMO, there is no way that they ever thought Maddie was in the hands of pedophiles. They are liars. :furious:

Absolutely, you & me both Colomom! I agree they knew that Madeleine was not with pedophiles & they still know! They are most certainly Liars!

Here's a huge discrepancy for me: Recently during the anniversary interviews, something was said about how badly Kate was doing during the initial days, that at one point "she had to be carried into the church" for a service. (I believe that was Gerry speaking.)

However, at the time, Gerry on his blog posted about Kate being a "keen runner" and how good her time was jogging to the top of the little mountain nearby!

So was she jogging daily, or collapsing almost daily?

Also, in all the interviews, go back and read/listen to how much Kate talks about Sean and Amelie. She tells us how they are growing, maturing, how "lovely" they are in every interview. It's not necessary for the public to know anything about Sean and Amelie and it's certainly not keeping the focus on Madeleine.

So what is up with that? Look at the year's worth of interviews and see how consistently this happens.

As for your question, Barnaby, I am a fairly high-maintenance person myself, but I wouldn't be able to keep up appearances as well as Kate and Gerry did.
No way.

off to work, hi ho!

I have always asked how the hell a mother who just lost her kid probably to pedophiles would have the energy to jog, it is unthinkable, nothing saps energy like worry! When my SIL was ill & awaiting test results last year I didn't have the energy to do anything, never mind jog & she is not even my own flesh & blood!

You are so right that there is more talk of Sean & Amelie than there ever was of Madeleine! It is disgraceful, all I have really ever heard Kate say is that "she is lovely" What a bland statement about your beloved little girl!

I too am high maintenance Texana lol but my hairdresser & beautician would sure see a drop in their takings if I was in the McCanns position last May! I would have looked a fright on TV, I can guarantee it! My hair, face, clothes & jewellery would have been the furthest things from my mind. People would probably have thought that I was a drunk as I would have hardly been able to stand up with all the sedation it would have taken to keep me calm, never mind jog up a bloody hill in record time!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Is this a fact...That she both hid, and that it was for as long as 30 minutes?" or is it one of the many many rumours.
We all know children like to play hide and seek with their parents...that is a far cry from going missing from her bed and the apartment, in the dark at night.
Not many children would venture out in the dark and I doubt very much that Madeleine would have done that.
Which is probably another reason why her parents didn't believe she had wondered off. I will tell you it's your opinion Barnaby. It's not mine however.
I see things very differently. I see a couple who have and are suffering greatly, and I don't know how anyone can have watched the recent ITV documentary and not see and feel it.

It was reported by local residents.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23407950-details/Madeleine%20and%20the%20missing%20hour:%20how%20often%20did%20the%20McCanns%20check%20on%20their%20children/article.do

In a further twist, locals now claim that Madeleine did not always settle well. One evening they allege she ran away into the paths between the apartments, hiding for half an hour when it was time for bed.

Poor child! She probably thought if she hid, she wouldn't have to go to bed...and then her parents wouldn't leave her alone (at night) in charge of her 2 year old brother and sister.

Also interesting to be reminded of from above link:

A worker at the tapas bar says that only a tall man, believed to be Russell O'Brien, got up from the table during the entire evening. Of course, this witness might be wrong. A busy barman could not have eyes on the McCann party for two and a half hours.
And what of Najova Chekaya, the aerobics teacher running the quiz? She was invited over to the McCann table by Mr McCann himself when the game ended at 9.30. She stayed for half an hour. She later claimed to friends that nobody left the table.

 

[teacherbees]

I can tell you that when my son died (stillborn), I was a wreck.

Normally, I'm a pretty positive, list-making, project-oriented type person. But I have likened grief to the hardest work a person can ever do. For me, every day felt like trying to walk across the bottom of a filled swimming pool, with 50 pound weights on each leg.

I specifically remember a close neighbor's husband talking about the astounding difference he saw in me during those early months after losing my son. I could barely get up the energy to drag myself to the mailbox (and often didn't), much less go out jogging or have my hair done.

As with Kate and Gerry, I had two living children to carry on for. Frankly, they're the only things that kept me from staying in bed all day, every day.
As you've mentioned grief saps your energy beyond what people can comprehend until they've been there.

With my son, I at least got closure. The time I had with him, holding that perfect little boy and getting to say goodby to him were some of the most painful and yet precious moments of my life.

To this day, almost 18 years later, I can't think about my baby boy without tears welling in my eyes.

It's most certainly true that everyone grieves differently, but I believe there's also some universality to the experience of losing a child. I try not to judge the McCanns for every smile they might've displayed or for even looking so well-groomed but so many of their behaviors are simply not within any paramaters of how people react when their toddler daugher is supposedly kidnapped and quite possibly (according to their own words) in the hands of some perverted pedophile - or dead.

You can offer up whatever explanations and rationales you want but the bottom line is, Kate and Gerry don't have normal affect in regards to losing a daughter in such a tragic manner.

 

[Tony Bennett]

april4sky wrote: "I see a couple who have and are suffering greatly, and I don't know how anyone can have watched the recent ITV documentary and not see and feel it".

REPLY: Whenever I see the McCanns, I see a consummate actor and actress - aided and abetted by top class PR advice. The suffering that we see occasionally is IMO caused by their fear of detection

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Salem]

((((((((((teacherbees))))))))))

Hugs to you teacherbees!

Salem

 

[Salem]

april4sky wrote: "I see a couple who have and are suffering greatly, and I don't know how anyone can have watched the recent ITV documentary and not see and feel it".

REPLY: Whenever I see the McCanns, I see a consummate actor and actress - aided and abetted by top class PR advice. The suffering that we see occasionally is IMO caused by their fear of detection

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:clap::clap::clap:

Me too, Tony!

Salem

 

[Texana]

I guess I could accept that someone would be able to jog from nervous energy or trying to handle devastating stress--but I don't think I would be blogging about it. Also, I can't see how you can go from being able to jog so well to barely hanging on physically and having to be carried.

Teacherbees...((())))from me as well.

I remember the comment about Madeleine hiding as well. I've noticed a lot of links have disappeared, but I have several cached and bookmarked so I'll check.

 

[Barnaby]

It was reported by local residents.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...he McCanns check on their children/article.do


Poor child! She probably thought if she hid, she wouldn't have to go to bed...and then her parents wouldn't leave her alone (at night) in charge of her 2 year old brother and sister.

Also interesting to be reminded of from above link:

Thanks for the link IW!


(((((Hugs))))) Teacherbees, I am so sorry for your loss & fully understand the devastating effect that it had on you!

 

[colomom]

:blowkiss:...for you teacherbees, just the thought of that kind of pain makes me weak.

Both you and IW are most excellent mommies, I am proud to know you.

I agree Tony B. and I guess it took them almost a year to put on a show of emotion. They must have been in training.

I would also like to know April why you continue to press your case. Is it that you believe that you will change minds here? It is quite repetitive and redundant after all this time. Not that I am trying to discourage you from posting, I would just think that your thoughts might be better received by like-minded folks. Sometimes it feels as if you are trying to create dissension. Just saying, you are free to do whatever you'd like, of course.