MsRyber
Lacks Insight, but has great Common Sense.
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Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 23
- Thread starter christine2448
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(Thanks, as ever, for Colomom's diligence in bringing the Portuguese Press information to WS.)
What was that error of the first hour that so compromised the course of the investigation?
There was something that seemed so wrong- immediately- that the Mcs came under suspicion.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id117.html
(From SOL, 13 July, 2007)
The case could have been solved almost immediately. But well, they were
DOCTORS! Because they didn't fit the profile, seasoned LE,cynical reporters, craven politicians, and the general public, nearly all gave them the benefit of the doubt, and suspended their own gut feelings.
Pinkhammer
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"We begin, immediately, to wonder if the parents were involved."
And still, over a year later, intelligent people wonder if and how the parents were involved.
And still, over a year later, intelligent people wonder if and how the parents were involved.
Tony Bennett
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Potentiallly very important report indeed in today's 'Correos de Manha'. Here is a provisional translation, brought over from the 3 Arguidos forum. Another translation may appear on the Joana Morais blogspot shortly:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Report of PJ Discards Kidnap Theory
CM reveals content of the document
The main argument against the kidnapper entry through the apartment's window was given by the parents.
Window to small to pass the child through it
Group Witness Contradicted
Main Topics
English Lab withdrew the final results
Dogs scented blood in the house and in the car
Kate and Maddie Clothes had cadaver odour
McCanns Neighbour heard Child crying for more than one hour
Translating 6 pages - will post as soon as possible
The animals detected cadaver odor in the apartment, the stuffed animal and Kates clothes
DOGS DECISIVE FOR PJ
British animals [both] agreed on the scent of indications in various places and objects
The alerting of the British dogs specially trained to detect cadaver odor and human blood was decisive in making Kate and Gerry arguidos.
Link for floorplan of where the dogs found scents big scanned image
Faced with the coincidence of the alerting of both animals, which signaled the same locations and objects related to the McCanns, the authorities were obliged to admit a possible involvement of Kate and Gerry in the disappearance of their daughter and to make them arguidos in order to confront them with evidence which could result in their incrimination for, as [merely] witnesses, they could not opt to remain silent.
According to what CM has discovered, in the final investigation report produced by the PJ the investigators explained that the animals only gave their detection signals in places and objects related to the McCanns: in the apartment where Madeleine disappeared (in the parents bedroom, the living room and next to a side window), in the back patio, the familys car (rented 24 days after the girl disappeared), two pieces of Kates clothes and Maddies stuffed animal the one Kate never released in the days following the disappearance.
In the McCanns friends apartments, in the Luz village and in all the vehicles used by Robert Murat, the first to be made arguido, nothing was found by the dogs.
Given these indications, reinforced by other detailed tests done in Portugal and England, the PJ interrogated Kate and Gerry and made them arguidos.
The animals, Springer Spaniels, are heavily used in the UK in the search for missing people or homicide victims, with positive results.
KATE JUSTIFIES DEATH ODOR
Kate McCann didnt negate the fact that her two pieces of clothes and the stuffed animal had been signaled by the English dogs trained to find cadaver odor and justified it by her profession. Madeleines mother alleged that as a doctor at the Leicester health center, she was present at six deaths directly before she came to Portugal on holiday, giving the same excuse for Madeleines stuffed animal, that was with her in the months after her daughter disappeared.
VESTIGES OF A CRIME
Two specially trained dogs, used as criminal investigation assistants, detected cadaver odor in the McCanns bedroom, the living room, Kates clothes, the girls stuffed animal and the car key, as well as spots of blood in the boot of the car and the apartment living room.
Main Article : PJ couldnt find childs body
INVESTIGATION REVEALS ABDUCTION IMPOSSIBLE
Final report describes dozens of diligences and unravels incongruences in the theory proposed by Maddies parents
Thirteen months after Madeleine disappeared, the PJ ended the investigation that continues to be marked by uncertainties. The final report, the CM today exclusively reveals, does not determine guilt but leaves new and strong doubts about the theory presented by the English childs parents. It describes in great detail the diligences done by the investigators who tried, in every possible way, to confirm their hypothesis and reveals that it was theoretically impossible to have happened. The witnesses dont make sense, especially not the way that one of the friends said she saw a man carrying a child almost an hour before the alert about the disappearance occurred. This would be Jane Tanner, who guarantees she surprised the unknown man in a street where Maddies father and another witness also were. Both guarantee that they saw nothing, even though they were in the same line of sight. Tanner, who much later made a photofit of the supposed abductor, also said that the man carried the child in a horizontal position. The size of the window reveals that this could only have happened if the child were carried vertically.
Being that as it may, the PJ tried through all possible means to find who could have taken Maddie. They did dozens of diligences related to suspects of sexual abuse. Elements were collected about those registered that could have been on holidays in the Algarve during that time period, in order to verify if there could have been any connection with little Maddie.
In addition, all the other residents of the village were investigated. The PJ entered more than 400 houses surrounding the Ocean Club and found nothing. On the window where Kate guaranteed that Maddie was taken no vestiges of the girl were found. Only marks that confirmed the DNA of the girls mother.
The PJs final report shows the details of an investigation that reached unprecedented levels. A couple was investigated that had allegedly tried to abduct another child, a fine toothed comb was used to research the clues that Maddie had been seen at a gas station. A crematorium was searched and Maddies genetic profile was compared to that of a childs body found on the coast of the United States.
The PJ investigated a supposed beggar and followed thousands of clues around the world. In vain. Nothing confirmed the proposed abduction theory.
[Translation by dear and fast and superb and fantastic Debk]
Source: Correio da Manhã
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Report of PJ Discards Kidnap Theory
CM reveals content of the document
The main argument against the kidnapper entry through the apartment's window was given by the parents.
Window to small to pass the child through it
Group Witness Contradicted
Main Topics
English Lab withdrew the final results
Dogs scented blood in the house and in the car
Kate and Maddie Clothes had cadaver odour
McCanns Neighbour heard Child crying for more than one hour
Translating 6 pages - will post as soon as possible
The animals detected cadaver odor in the apartment, the stuffed animal and Kates clothes
DOGS DECISIVE FOR PJ
British animals [both] agreed on the scent of indications in various places and objects
The alerting of the British dogs specially trained to detect cadaver odor and human blood was decisive in making Kate and Gerry arguidos.
Link for floorplan of where the dogs found scents big scanned image
Faced with the coincidence of the alerting of both animals, which signaled the same locations and objects related to the McCanns, the authorities were obliged to admit a possible involvement of Kate and Gerry in the disappearance of their daughter and to make them arguidos in order to confront them with evidence which could result in their incrimination for, as [merely] witnesses, they could not opt to remain silent.
According to what CM has discovered, in the final investigation report produced by the PJ the investigators explained that the animals only gave their detection signals in places and objects related to the McCanns: in the apartment where Madeleine disappeared (in the parents bedroom, the living room and next to a side window), in the back patio, the familys car (rented 24 days after the girl disappeared), two pieces of Kates clothes and Maddies stuffed animal the one Kate never released in the days following the disappearance.
In the McCanns friends apartments, in the Luz village and in all the vehicles used by Robert Murat, the first to be made arguido, nothing was found by the dogs.
Given these indications, reinforced by other detailed tests done in Portugal and England, the PJ interrogated Kate and Gerry and made them arguidos.
The animals, Springer Spaniels, are heavily used in the UK in the search for missing people or homicide victims, with positive results.
KATE JUSTIFIES DEATH ODOR
Kate McCann didnt negate the fact that her two pieces of clothes and the stuffed animal had been signaled by the English dogs trained to find cadaver odor and justified it by her profession. Madeleines mother alleged that as a doctor at the Leicester health center, she was present at six deaths directly before she came to Portugal on holiday, giving the same excuse for Madeleines stuffed animal, that was with her in the months after her daughter disappeared.
VESTIGES OF A CRIME
Two specially trained dogs, used as criminal investigation assistants, detected cadaver odor in the McCanns bedroom, the living room, Kates clothes, the girls stuffed animal and the car key, as well as spots of blood in the boot of the car and the apartment living room.
Main Article : PJ couldnt find childs body
INVESTIGATION REVEALS ABDUCTION IMPOSSIBLE
Final report describes dozens of diligences and unravels incongruences in the theory proposed by Maddies parents
Thirteen months after Madeleine disappeared, the PJ ended the investigation that continues to be marked by uncertainties. The final report, the CM today exclusively reveals, does not determine guilt but leaves new and strong doubts about the theory presented by the English childs parents. It describes in great detail the diligences done by the investigators who tried, in every possible way, to confirm their hypothesis and reveals that it was theoretically impossible to have happened. The witnesses dont make sense, especially not the way that one of the friends said she saw a man carrying a child almost an hour before the alert about the disappearance occurred. This would be Jane Tanner, who guarantees she surprised the unknown man in a street where Maddies father and another witness also were. Both guarantee that they saw nothing, even though they were in the same line of sight. Tanner, who much later made a photofit of the supposed abductor, also said that the man carried the child in a horizontal position. The size of the window reveals that this could only have happened if the child were carried vertically.
Being that as it may, the PJ tried through all possible means to find who could have taken Maddie. They did dozens of diligences related to suspects of sexual abuse. Elements were collected about those registered that could have been on holidays in the Algarve during that time period, in order to verify if there could have been any connection with little Maddie.
In addition, all the other residents of the village were investigated. The PJ entered more than 400 houses surrounding the Ocean Club and found nothing. On the window where Kate guaranteed that Maddie was taken no vestiges of the girl were found. Only marks that confirmed the DNA of the girls mother.
The PJs final report shows the details of an investigation that reached unprecedented levels. A couple was investigated that had allegedly tried to abduct another child, a fine toothed comb was used to research the clues that Maddie had been seen at a gas station. A crematorium was searched and Maddies genetic profile was compared to that of a childs body found on the coast of the United States.
The PJ investigated a supposed beggar and followed thousands of clues around the world. In vain. Nothing confirmed the proposed abduction theory.
[Translation by dear and fast and superb and fantastic Debk]
Source: Correio da Manhã
Thanks for bringing that to us Tony!!
That's a bombshell, if you ask me. Seems to me that the "evidence" pointing at the McCanns involvement in Maddie's vanishing is, once again, confirmed. I realize that some will disagree....
Just a reminder: all of the CM articles can be found on the Portuguese Press thread as well (with pictures!).
That's a bombshell, if you ask me. Seems to me that the "evidence" pointing at the McCanns involvement in Maddie's vanishing is, once again, confirmed. I realize that some will disagree....
Just a reminder: all of the CM articles can be found on the Portuguese Press thread as well (with pictures!).
SOS Madeleine McCann: article updated.
"Maddie: Investigation continues and gains new momentum (Updated 5/07/08)
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
4/07/08 Updated 5/07/08
Maddie : Enquête continue et gagne nouvel élan
Malgré toutes les informations avancées dans les médias, en particulier au Royaume-Uni, la Police judiciaire (PJ) a nié que l’enquête à la disparition de Madeleine McCann soit abandonnée ou archivée, ce qu’est confirmée par une source de la l’Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) qu’avance l’existence de deux témoignages décisifs qui n’ont pas encore été communiqués aux autorités portugaises.
Plusieurs centaines de témoins ont été interrogés depuis le jour de la disparition de Madeleine, au Portugal par la PJ, mais également au Royaume-Uni où les interrogatoires ont été effectués à plusieurs endroits du pays.
Maddie: the investigation continues and gains new momentum.
In spite of all the information put forward in the media, in the United Kingdom in particular, the PJ have denied that the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance is to be abandoned or archived. This is confirmed by a source from the Association of Chief Police Officer (ACPO) who put forward the existence of two crucial witness statements, which have not yet been communicated to the Portuguese authorities!
Several hundred witnesses have been interrogated since the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in Portugal by the PJ, but also in the United Kingdom, where the interrogations were carried out at several places in the country.
Selon la même source, au moins deux témoins ont mis directement en cause la responsabilité d’un membre du groupe des neuf britannique – connu comme les “Tapas 9” — dans la disparition de Maddie, mais le contenu de leurs déclarations n’a jamais été transmis aux autorités portugaises.
According to the same source, at least two witnesses have directly called into question the responsibility of a member of the group of nine British people - known as the, "Tapas 9" - in Maddie's disappearance, but the contents of their statements have never been sent to the Portuguese authorities.
“Il existe un circuit bien précis pour faire arriver l’information au Portugal et tout n’a pas fonctionné comme il était prévu, ou comme il serait normal de fonctionner dans un cas de coopération internationale,” affirme ce responsable soulignant que les diverses forces de police qui ont collaboré à l’enquête sur le sol britannique, en particulier dans le Leicertershire, ont été “dépassées” par les agissements de leur hiérarchie, victime à leur tour du rôle joué par le gouvernement.
Pour rappel, l’Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) et la police du Leicestershire, ont collaboré dans l’enquête des autorités portugaises, comme l’a confirmée Patricia Scotland, Ministre d'Etat et Attorney General pour l'Angleterre et le Pays de Galles.
"There is a very clear system for getting information to Portugal and it has not all worked as planned, or as it would normally work in a case of international co-operation," this officer stated, stressing that the various police forces who collaborated in the investigation on British soil, in particular in Leicestershire, were, "overtaken," by the actions of their superiors, victims in their turn to the role played by the government.
As a reminder, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and the Leicestershire police, have collaborated in the investigations by the Portuguese authorities, as Patricia Scotland, Minister of State and Attorney General for England and Wales has confirmed.
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
To be continued.
Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1164&page=17 Post #247
"Maddie: Investigation continues and gains new momentum (Updated 5/07/08)
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
4/07/08 Updated 5/07/08
Maddie : Enquête continue et gagne nouvel élan
Malgré toutes les informations avancées dans les médias, en particulier au Royaume-Uni, la Police judiciaire (PJ) a nié que l’enquête à la disparition de Madeleine McCann soit abandonnée ou archivée, ce qu’est confirmée par une source de la l’Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) qu’avance l’existence de deux témoignages décisifs qui n’ont pas encore été communiqués aux autorités portugaises.
Plusieurs centaines de témoins ont été interrogés depuis le jour de la disparition de Madeleine, au Portugal par la PJ, mais également au Royaume-Uni où les interrogatoires ont été effectués à plusieurs endroits du pays.
Maddie: the investigation continues and gains new momentum.
In spite of all the information put forward in the media, in the United Kingdom in particular, the PJ have denied that the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance is to be abandoned or archived. This is confirmed by a source from the Association of Chief Police Officer (ACPO) who put forward the existence of two crucial witness statements, which have not yet been communicated to the Portuguese authorities!
Several hundred witnesses have been interrogated since the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in Portugal by the PJ, but also in the United Kingdom, where the interrogations were carried out at several places in the country.
Selon la même source, au moins deux témoins ont mis directement en cause la responsabilité d’un membre du groupe des neuf britannique – connu comme les “Tapas 9” — dans la disparition de Maddie, mais le contenu de leurs déclarations n’a jamais été transmis aux autorités portugaises.
According to the same source, at least two witnesses have directly called into question the responsibility of a member of the group of nine British people - known as the, "Tapas 9" - in Maddie's disappearance, but the contents of their statements have never been sent to the Portuguese authorities.
“Il existe un circuit bien précis pour faire arriver l’information au Portugal et tout n’a pas fonctionné comme il était prévu, ou comme il serait normal de fonctionner dans un cas de coopération internationale,” affirme ce responsable soulignant que les diverses forces de police qui ont collaboré à l’enquête sur le sol britannique, en particulier dans le Leicertershire, ont été “dépassées” par les agissements de leur hiérarchie, victime à leur tour du rôle joué par le gouvernement.
Pour rappel, l’Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) et la police du Leicestershire, ont collaboré dans l’enquête des autorités portugaises, comme l’a confirmée Patricia Scotland, Ministre d'Etat et Attorney General pour l'Angleterre et le Pays de Galles.
"There is a very clear system for getting information to Portugal and it has not all worked as planned, or as it would normally work in a case of international co-operation," this officer stated, stressing that the various police forces who collaborated in the investigation on British soil, in particular in Leicestershire, were, "overtaken," by the actions of their superiors, victims in their turn to the role played by the government.
As a reminder, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and the Leicestershire police, have collaborated in the investigations by the Portuguese authorities, as Patricia Scotland, Minister of State and Attorney General for England and Wales has confirmed.
http://sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/
To be continued.
Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1164&page=17 Post #247
Tony Bennett
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The previous post is pointing the finger at possible high level corruption within the British police forces.
Not good
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Not good
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Barnaby
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scandi
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Hi Barnaby, I wanted to say hello to you and also to Tony who I have not really met yet. I must say when I learned the other day Tony you are now a member of Websleuths, I was absolutely tickled PINK :dance: It is good to meet you.
I also want to take this moment to welcome our newest poster to the forum, bouncy. I have had the fortune to post along side of her for much of the case, and her reputation surely preceeds her.
You will enjoy her company and discover she is particularly dedicated to anything written out there on the case, just as Colomom is known for being the Photo Mistress.
So HEAR HEAR! WELCOME Bouncy
Scandi
Barnaby
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Hi Barnaby, I wanted to say hello to you and also to Tony who I have not really met yet. I must say when I learned the other day Tony you are now a member of Websleuths, I was absolutely tickled PINK :dance: It is good to meet you.
I also want to take this moment to welcome our newest poster to the forum, bouncy. I have had the fortune to post along side of her for much of the case, and her reputation surely preceeds her.
You will enjoy her company and discover she is particularly dedicated to anything written out there on the case, just as Colomom is known for being the Photo Mistress.
So HEAR HEAR! WELCOME Bouncy
Scandi
Hi Scandi, Thanks for the hello, nice to meet you & welcome to Bouncy!
Tony Bennett
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Have posted my latest theory on the 'disappearance' of Madeleine McCann on the 'Theories' thread, post 131
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april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
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McCanns To See Police Files
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-
The parents of Madeleine McCann have won access to previously secret police files on the disappearance of their daughter.
Their private investigators will now work with 81 files gathered by Leicestershire Police in the days immediately after the toddler vanished.
The parents, who wanted to avoid a legal conflict with the police while at the same time obtaining as much material as possible to help in their continuing search, were content to withdraw their case.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-
The parents of Madeleine McCann have won access to previously secret police files on the disappearance of their daughter.
Their private investigators will now work with 81 files gathered by Leicestershire Police in the days immediately after the toddler vanished.
The parents, who wanted to avoid a legal conflict with the police while at the same time obtaining as much material as possible to help in their continuing search, were content to withdraw their case.
Apparently the Tapas group typed up a report to help them keep their stories straight. And the PJ has it. Please, someone, tell me why they would do this for innocent reasons? Other than child neglect, what were they hiding?
From the Portuguese Press Thread:
From the Portuguese Press Thread:
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This sure is telling, IMO. I wonder if there is anyway, if they don't already know, when it was actually written, and in who's hand/who actually typed it.
Detailed report on the High Court Hearing (7/7/08)
http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17576
Michael Shrimpton?!?! Oh my, my....
http://www.intelligencesummit.org/speakers/MichaelShrimpton.php
http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17576
Michael Shrimpton?!?! Oh my, my....
http://www.intelligencesummit.org/speakers/MichaelShrimpton.php
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Detailed report on the High Court Hearing (7/7/08)
http://www.the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17576
Michael Shrimpton?!?! Oh my, my....
http://www.intelligencesummit.org/speakers/MichaelShrimpton.php
OK, I'm clueless, help a girl out...Oh my what??? :blowkiss:
Michael Shrimpton is a very powerful lawyer with major "connections" in very high places. Check out that website for a list of some of his many accomplishments and his background.
The question is why?? Why would he have anything to do with this case? What does this case have to do with national security?
Here we are again, wondering about conspiracy theories, which I hate!!
ETA: His website (shown above his picture) seems to have vanished in that past few hours. Joana (Morais) was able to copy from it just a short time ago.... :waitasec:
:blowkiss: (backatcha)
Texana
Overreaching
I know, everything like this just adds to the conspiracy theorists!
I actually believe it's just part of the strings the McCanns are able to pull. It wouldn't be unlikely to have two lawyers already on retainer--one for the civil laws of extradition, one in case criminal charges are brought. Two different kinds of attorneys requiring two very different specialities.
It is a very telling fact that even though they were calling out that Maddie was abducted, none of the others went to check on their children. It is such an instinctive thing--how could you not check on your own children? One parent could check while the other remained to "assist" in the search?
I think there are more things like that that made the PJ raise their eyebrows. Yes, people grieve differently, etc, etc, but this was not about grief. This is about how people react when confronted with a crime, and certain behavior is universal to everyone.
I actually believe it's just part of the strings the McCanns are able to pull. It wouldn't be unlikely to have two lawyers already on retainer--one for the civil laws of extradition, one in case criminal charges are brought. Two different kinds of attorneys requiring two very different specialities.
It is a very telling fact that even though they were calling out that Maddie was abducted, none of the others went to check on their children. It is such an instinctive thing--how could you not check on your own children? One parent could check while the other remained to "assist" in the search?
I think there are more things like that that made the PJ raise their eyebrows. Yes, people grieve differently, etc, etc, but this was not about grief. This is about how people react when confronted with a crime, and certain behavior is universal to everyone.
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