Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 23

[Salem]

Thanks for the answers about the English's lack of a sex offender database guys! I appreciate. I am disappointed to hear there is no database.

As to the comments about unnecessarily blemishing Payne's reputation in order to discredit him, I have some doubts. Mostly because the information is coming from the Portugese papers and not the English papers where it would be more likely that Clarence Mitchell & the McCanns would print such stuff.

The other side of that is - if there is any truth to the discrediting claim - then Payne should be stepping forward to clear his name and speak the truth about what happened.

So even if it is a discrediting attempt, in the long run the information should be helpful to the search for Maddie - either by re-investigating Payne or forcing Payne (or his wife) to step forward and spill what they know about May 3rd, 2007.

Just my thoughts,

Salem

 

[april4sky]

Thanks for the answers about the English's lack of a sex offender database guys! I appreciate. I am disappointed to hear there is no database.

As to the comments about unnecessarily blemishing Payne's reputation in order to discredit him, I have some doubts. Mostly because the information is coming from the Portugese papers and not the English papers where it would be more likely that Clarence Mitchell & the McCanns would print such stuff.

The other side of that is - if there is any truth to the discrediting claim - then Payne should be stepping forward to clear his name and speak the truth about what happened.

So even if it is a discrediting attempt, in the long run the information should be helpful to the search for Maddie - either by re-investigating Payne or forcing Payne (or his wife) to step forward and spill what they know about May 3rd, 2007.

Just my thoughts,

Salem

Right Salem. :blowkiss:
Still hoping we will be able to hear from all of them soon.

 

[SleuthMom]

Assuming their arguido status will be lifted and the secrecy law no longer in the way I have the feeling that all of the sudden the Mc Canns will not give any interviews neither answer any questions.

 

[Barnaby]

They probably are decent. Has no one thought this is just like the Murat smears. What better way to control someone who has information that might incriminate you than to have your friends go to the police and suggest they might be a paedophile. Then if they do tell what they know you can leak slanderous information to discredit them.

Wow! Like Colomon, I never thought about this. Well if that is the case I hope that Payne will now break ranks & expose them! I sure would! Going away for the day but will be listening to the news!

 

[Salem]

Barnaby - you're still up? I thought you went to bed hours ago! Or is your day just starting now? Have a lovely day, don't work to hard or shop to much. "See" you this afternoon!

Salem

 

[Salem]

Assuming their arguido status will be lifted and the secrecy law no longer in the way I have the feeling that all of the sudden the Mc Canns will not give any interviews neither answer any questions.

I think they will give lots of "interviews," the kind where the questions are pre-approved and there is no deviation from the script and they will request payment. Only if PLE does archive the investigation until new leads come in, I don't believe anyone will be willing to pay. So if the McCanns are really going to keep Maddie in the public eye, they may have to do a little paying of their own.

Salem

 

[colomom]

Stay tuned people....

It may take awhile but there is a 57 page "final report" from the PJ (in .pdf and in Portuguese) that has just been released. Our friends are translating it for us...

I will open a new thread for it...

If you can read Portuguese: http://downloads.officeshare.pt/expressoonline/pdf/MaddieMcCann_PJ.pdf

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Thanks Colomom, just read the first few pages. So far nothing is "different" than the "rumors and smears" we've read over the last few months. That is encouraging.

 

[Texana]

Thanks, Colomom. Looking forward to the translation.

 

[Tony Bennett]

Well, back to the routine slog of sleuthing.

Especially if the Portuguese Police are no longer going to bother.

A new fact about Matthew Oldfield


One thing that did strike me on reading the 58-page Portuguese Judiciara report released on Monday (21st July) was the odd incident at 8.55am where Matthew Oldfield was apparently looking through the window to see if he could hear Madeleine.

This is the translation, I’ve slightly altered the provisional translation to make it read better in English:

Matthew Oldfield testifies that at around 8.55pm he went near the outside of the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping – a window that was closed – in order to verify if there was any noise on the inside that might indicate that the child was not asleep. He heard nothing, therefore concluded that everything was well”.

Now I don't buy that story for a nanosecond.

Just like I don't buy anything of what the Tapas 9 say about that evening.

I suggest he was seen there around this time, perhaps by another witness, and had to explain his odd presence there. By 8.55pm, had he not yet left for the Tapas Bar? Or had he gone to the Tapas bar and returned at 8.55pm?

Question – what was he doing peering into the McCann children’s bedroom window?

I suggest that he may well have been involved with the final stages of a clean-up operation. Along with Gerry who admits to being there at 9.05pm to 9.10pm.

I suggest that it is possible from this disclosure by Matthew Oldfield that at least 3 of the Tapas 9 men were doing the final stages of the clean-up operation and perhaps preparing to move Madeleine, so that the alarm could be raised at 10.00pm.

Here are the three:

1) Gerry O'Brien, claiming to be checking his children at 9.05pm - 9.10pm. But was he there before 9.05pm? Nobody but Gerry and the other Tapas know.

2) Matthew Oldfield, peering into the children's bedroom at 8.55pm.

3) Russell O'Brien, nowhere to be seen, allegedly seeing to a sick child.

So when did the alleged ‘quiz’ start?

Maybe there was no quiz.

I have tracked down the ‘quizmistress’ to an address in south-east England which is just a few miles from the address of Dianne Webster, Fiona Payne’s mother. She was clearly part of the holiday group of friends.

That’s all I can make of this for now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Barnaby]

Barnaby - you're still up? I thought you went to bed hours ago! Or is your day just starting now? Have a lovely day, don't work to hard or shop to much. "See" you this afternoon!

Salem

Hi Salem,

Sorry i didn't see this post until now. That was the start of my day LOL I was just up to head off for the day! Thanks for the good wishes & oops yes I spent a little too much lol!

 

[Tony Bennett]

At last, the truth:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/07/pre-publication-of-amarals-book-on.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Barnaby]

At last, the truth:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/07/pre-publication-of-amarals-book-on.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I well believe that Tony.

Here is my theory after reading Pages 37 & 38 of report:

The piece about the dogs is very interesting, I didn't know cadaver odour was found on a piece of Madeleine's clothing until now!
Particularly interesting that both dogs alerted to the same spot behind the sofa! So she bled there & died there?
Perhaps climbed to try to get out of the window if door of apartment was actually locked contrary to what the McCanns say! That would be more sense to me, initially they did say the door was locked then changed their story when MW confirmed that shutters were not jemmied!
I mean they were told that there had been burglaries at the complex so I guess if they didn't care too much about their kids that they would care about their Passports & other personal belongings which would have been in the apartment & probably really did lock the door! Then lied to cover the fact that Madeleine couldn't get out & climbed & fell to her death - broke her neck which would be consistent with the blood spatter!

One thing for sure if I had just been cleared of an arguido status, I wouldn't like this kind of evidence to be kicking around in the public domain!
Do they really expect us to believe that on this one occasion BOTH dogs were wrong? Maybe the dogs conspired against them as well as PJ?

 

[daffodil]

I well believe that Tony.

Here is my theory after reading Pages 37 & 38 of report:

The piece about the dogs is very interesting, I didn't know cadaver odour was found on a piece of Madeleine's clothing until now!
Particularly interesting that both dogs alerted to the same spot behind the sofa! So she bled there & died there?
Perhaps climbed to try to get out of the window if door of apartment was actually locked contrary to what the McCanns say! That would be more sense to me, initially they did say the door was locked then changed their story when MW confirmed that shutters were not jemmied!
I mean they were told that there had been burglaries at the complex so I guess if they didn't care too much about their kids that they would care about their Passports & other personal belongings which would have been in the apartment & probably really did lock the door! Then lied to cover the fact that Madeleine couldn't get out & climbed & fell to her death - broke her neck which would be consistent with the blood spatter!

One thing for sure if I had just been cleared of an arguido status, I wouldn't like this kind of evidence to be kicking around in the public domain!
Do they really expect us to believe that on this one occasion BOTH dogs were wrong? Maybe the dogs conspired against them as well as PJ?

Speculation.I thought I heard on the news the blood in the appt wasnt even Madelieines? :waitasec:

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Speculation.I thought I heard on the news the blood in the appt wasnt even Madelieines? :waitasec:

You believe everything you hear on the news? I'm shocked! The news is pure speculation. Seems a bit hypocritical.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I well believe that Tony.

Here is my theory after reading Pages 37 & 38 of report:

The piece about the dogs is very interesting, I didn't know cadaver odour was found on a piece of Madeleine's clothing until now!
Particularly interesting that both dogs alerted to the same spot behind the sofa! So she bled there & died there?
Perhaps climbed to try to get out of the window if door of apartment was actually locked contrary to what the McCanns say! That would be more sense to me, initially they did say the door was locked then changed their story when MW confirmed that shutters were not jemmied!
I mean they were told that there had been burglaries at the complex so I guess if they didn't care too much about their kids that they would care about their Passports & other personal belongings which would have been in the apartment & probably really did lock the door! Then lied to cover the fact that Madeleine couldn't get out & climbed & fell to her death - broke her neck which would be consistent with the blood spatter!

One thing for sure if I had just been cleared of an arguido status, I wouldn't like this kind of evidence to be kicking around in the public domain!
Do they really expect us to believe that on this one occasion BOTH dogs were wrong? Maybe the dogs conspired against them as well as PJ?

I don't see anywhere in the report where the blood in the apt. was sourced to Madeleine? Did she go out the window trying to escape the apartment and fell to her death in the flower bed? (or were they on the ground floor, and that wasn't a fatal fall?) Or did she refuse to go to bed at the twins' time and was beaten to death by an angry parent? Was cadaver scent detected in the flower bed because they used the window to get rid of the body?

 

[colomom]

I don't see anywhere in the report where the blood in the apt. was sourced to Madeleine? Did she go out the window trying to escape the apartment and fell to her death in the flower bed? (or were they on the ground floor, and that wasn't a fatal fall?) Or did she refuse to go to bed at the twins' time and was beaten to death by an angry parent? Was cadaver scent detected in the flower bed because they used the window to get rid of the body?

This theory covers alot of your questions twinkiesmom:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2357284&postcount=132

I have read several reports about the FSS testing of the blood. I have seen 15 out of 19 markers or 18 out of 19 markers, either of would equal high probability that the blood was Madeleine's. I have not seen the actual report with my own eyes however.

The question is....if not Madeleine's, then whose? The PJ ruled out all except the residents of 5A on May 3rd 2007. Also if you combine the various different findings together you will find yourself at a logical conclusion.

Kate cries "they've taken her", she said she "knew immediately that Maddie had been abducted" and yet she leaves her twins alone in the apartment, with a open window, to run back to the Tapas. The cadaver and blood dogs alert in many places including on Madeleine's clothes. There is no evidence of an abduction and, in fact, the reconstruction that the PJ conducted proved that it could not have happened the way the McCanns reported. Why the lack of cooperation on behalf of the T9?

You really need to look at the whole picture and see what the preponderance of the evidence (even if circumstantial) tells you....

 

[daffodil]

You believe everything you hear on the news? I'm shocked! The news is pure speculation. Seems a bit hypocritical.

Whats hypocritical about it?

 

[Barnaby]

Speculation.I thought I heard on the news the blood in the appt wasnt even Madelieines? :waitasec:

ROFL! The news is always inaccurate unless it reports something which appears to exonerate the parents, then it is fact!

 

[colomom]

Speculation.I thought I heard on the news the blood in the appt wasnt even Madelieines? :waitasec:

From The Truth of the Lie by Goncola Amaral

"The Low Copy Number, the technique that is used to determine the DNA from those samples, does not determine from which bodily fluid the DNA comes from. In the first case, it can be read that an incomplete DNA result was obtained, because the sample contained little information, presenting low level DNA indications that come from more than one person. But all the DNA components that are confirmed, match the corresponding components from Madeleine’s DNA profile!

Do you suppose somebody is going to file a lawsuit???