Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 23

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Whats hypocritical about it?

:floorlaugh: Hello??? There is no use beating a dead horse...ther_beatingA_DeadYou can choose what rumors and smears you want to believe, and I'll choose mine.

All it took was ONE lie of the McCanns for me to see they where hiding something. As a child my parents taught me about the consequences of lying. The Little Boy who Cried Wolf, was a story I remember quite well. The moral of the story is, if you lie enough, no one will believe you when you do tell the truth. The McCanns started out with the biggest lie of all..."It was like dining in your garden, 50 feet away", that's all it took for me. They immediately, first thing from their lips, lied about the distance they where from their sleeping children...and still do to this day, even when we ALL know it is not true. They started making excuses for themselves instead of finding answers.

SO, what did your parents teach you about lying?

 

[Tony Bennett]

daffodil wrote: "I thought I heard on the news the blood in the appt wasn't even Madeleine's..."

REPLY: daffodil wrote this (above) in reply to Barnaby referring to 'blood spatters on the wall'.

I agree with 95% of what Barnaby said, but I think it must be conceded that daffodil is correct on that point - we have seen nothing official about either the blood being on the wall, still less that any blood was Madeleine's. Has it been officially confirmed that there were blood spatters on the wall? - I have not seen it anywhere yet.

Having said that, there could be further revelations.

The problem for the McCanns is that there is now so much evidence that Madeleine died in the flat. That both Eddie and Keela should find (a) cadaverine - the 'death scent' and (b) blood - and in each case behind the sofa - would certainly help me, if I were on the jury, to go a long way in believing (and being sure) that Madeleine died in Apartment 5a.

Now the presence of cadaverine behind the sofa, I think, tells us that poor Madeleine's body was in that position - there, behind the sofa - long enough for the body to putrefy to the extent that cadaverine starts to be released.

Most accounts I have read suggest that this must have been for two hours or more, though some suggest that cadaverine can be released after a much shorter interval.

I conclude that Barnaby's theory of Madeleine trying to climb, then falling, maybe dying from loss of blood, is consistent with the known facts. Except that falls like that do not normally cause loss of life. The lack of anyone there when she fell would increase the risk of death, though.

If there had been an uncontrolled attack by either parent, I think there would have been more blood spots all over the place, which would have been very difficult for the McCanns and the Tapas 9 men to cover up in a clean-up operation.

Whilst Kate's known severe temper would be consistent with an uncontrolled attack on Madeleine having occurred, there is no evidence for it, and IMO the location of the cadaverine and blood makes the 'rage attack' theory much less likely.

The facts are consistent with suggestions that Madeleine was lying by the sofa until her parents returned from whatever they were doing the night before.

It is also possible, I think, that they may have stumbled into bed that night without noticing that Madeleine was unconscious or dead - and only have discovered her dead in the morning.

The account Kate and Gerry gave of Madeleine at breakfast on 3rd May, allegedly cheerfully asking them why they weren't there when she and Sean were crying, and then happily bouncing away to play, was woefully uinconvincing. It felt much more like a self-serving statement designed to try and prove that Madeleine was alive on 3rd May.

Elswhere I have analysed the 8 claimed occasions on which Madeleine is supposed to have been seen on 3rd May - and there are serious doubts about the reliablity of each and every claimed 'sighting' that day.

One final thought. The apparent willingness of the Tapas 9 to cover for the McCanns is much more consistent with the Doctors having experimented with sedatives on their children than with a 'rage attack' by either parent

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[Texana]

Tony, I agree with your points. The "rage" injury has always seemed to me to be the weakest theory. The most likely scenario is the one that happens when children are left alone--accidental injury.

If Madeleine was going to the window or climbing on the sofa, she could have fallen just right, I think, for a fatal injury--particularly if the injury was unattended or undiscovered.

They could very well respond at that point with "Nothing we can do now, so we must salvage the rest of the family."

This wouldn't be inconsistent either with the use of sedatives. Nor would it contradict the "heard nothing" checks as reported. Mixing lies with truth, or not telling all the parties involved what actually happened--

And Kate's "They've taken her" would be absolutely true as well. At that point she could be grief-struck and in shock and let it all out.

 

[colomom]

From the Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral

"Throughout the 214 pages, Gonçalo Amaral remembers questions that remained unanswered – the twins’ cots had no bed sheets on the night that Maddie disappeared"

What happened to the sheets??

 

[Texana]

From the Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral

"Throughout the 214 pages, Gonçalo Amaral remembers questions that remained unanswered – the twins’ cots had no bed sheets on the night that Maddie disappeared"

What happened to the sheets??

Good question.

probably another one that wasn't answered by Kate.

 

[daffodil]

ROFL! The news is always inaccurate unless it reports something which appears to exonerate the parents, then it is fact!

I dont think I have ever said anything about the news one way or the other so please refresh my memory and show me what I said please and TIA.Oh and do get up off the floor its most unbecoming :crazy:

 

[gord]

god - we seem to have gone back to the beginning with all sort theories about everything - give me strength - are we really now debating again about blood flow and splatters -


hello - they have been cleared - the Legal system in Portugal has done its job and looked at everything in detail - do you really think they would have missed all this


The case is done - it has been archived . I know you want to see the Mccaans in jail cell - but it doesnt work like that .

Thats why we have a judical system - and you know evidence - proper evidence by people who know what they are doing - not the press not leaked documents

The ironic thing is that this is yet another leaked report from Portugal -

 

[ThoughtFox]

From the Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral

"Throughout the 214 pages, Gonçalo Amaral remembers questions that remained unanswered – the twins’ cots had no bed sheets on the night that Maddie disappeared"

What happened to the sheets??

Holy FACTOID straight from the police report, Batgirl!

 

[colomom]

Daffodil..

Oh come on now...it's not that difficult....

Barnaby quoted the latest news about the dogs findings regarding the blood and you responded "speculation". True, Barnaby then speculated about what those findings might mean but, that's what sleuths do.

Then you quoted another news report about the blood "not being Madeleine's".

So what makes your quoted report any less speculative than Barnaby's??

Perhaps it would serve you better to only post what you know to be absolute fact, that way you won't come across as being hypocritical.

Oh, and this: "Oh and do get up off the floor its most unbecoming" is totally unnecessary and does nothing for your credibility, IMO.

 

[colomom]

god - we seem to have gone back to the beginning with all sort theories about everything - give me strength - are we really now debating again about blood flow and splatters -

hello - they have been cleared - the Legal system in Portugal has done its job and looked at everything in detail - do you really think they would have missed all this

The case is done - it has been archived . I know you want to see the Mccaans in jail cell - but it doesnt work like that .

Thats why we have a judical system - and you know evidence - proper evidence by people who know what they are doing - not the press not leaked documents

The ironic thing is that this is yet another leaked report from Portugal -

If you really believe this to be true gord, I have a question for you.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by continuing to post about this case?

Not everyone thinks the way you do and not everyone agrees with your point of view.

Seriously.....

 

[Barnaby]

I dont think I have ever said anything about the news one way or the other so please refresh my memory and show me what I said please and TIA.Oh and do get up off the floor its most unbecoming :crazy:

Your memory is short:

Originally Posted by daffodil
Speculation.I thought I heard on the news the blood in the appt wasnt even Madelieines? :waitasec:


the very post that I replied to!
Oh & sarcasm is just as unbecoming as rolling on the floor laughing, in fact it is the lowest form of wit!

 

[Texana]

The case hasn't been archived here.

 

[Barnaby]

From the Truth of the Lie by Goncalo Amaral

"Throughout the 214 pages, Gonçalo Amaral remembers questions that remained unanswered – the twins’ cots had no bed sheets on the night that Maddie disappeared"

What happened to the sheets??

WoW! We can all speculate about that indeed! I hope we will hear an explanation form the McCanns! Thanks for posting that snippet, Colomon!

god - we seem to have gone back to the beginning with all sort theories about everything - give me strength - are we really now debating again about blood flow and splatters -


hello - they have been cleared - the Legal system in Portugal has done its job and looked at everything in detail - do you really think they would have missed all this


The case is done - it has been archived . I know you want to see the Mccaans in jail cell - but it doesnt work like that .

Thats why we have a judical system - and you know evidence - proper evidence by people who know what they are doing - not the press not leaked documents

The ironic thing is that this is yet another leaked report from Portugal -

Gord they have been "cleared" because of lack of evidence, not because there is no evidence against them but not enough the police obviously feel to make it stick with their high powered lawyers & UK Govt. backing!


Tony, I know there are unconfirmed rumours about blood spatter but I just meant the fact that the dogs alerted to blood there which made me think of the possibility that Madeleine fell & died there.
I am not entirely convinced about my own theory, part of me thinks that the whole thing was pre planned. I think that if parents lost a child because of an accident, regardless of their instinct to preserve their status, there would have to have been more grief involved & I think that even if they managed to dispose of the body & concoct the abduction theory, they would still be too disoriented to spring into action with funds etc. so quickly.

 

[Tony Bennett]

gord wrote: "hello - they have been cleared..."

REPLY: gord, HELLO!! - sorry for the shout there, but you don't seem to be one of the world's greatest listeners.

Um, someone is 'cleared' when a jury finds them 'not guilty'.

The investigation has been suspended, not closed down. There is evidence, but not sufficient evidence.

Now that you're listening properly - hello again, they have not been cleared

P.S. Woof! Woof!

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[Tony Bennett]

REPLIES TO BARNABY INTERLEAVED:

BARNABY: I am not entirely convinced about my own theory, part of me thinks that the whole thing was pre planned.

REPLY: I have seen all the theories about pre-planning. Given the amazing rapidity of the media reaction and the deft setting-up of a huge fund within days, I can see where that speculation comes from. I think the answer lies here: The McCanns, the Tapas 9, and others linked to them had high-powered political and media contacts. They swung into action in blind support of the McCanns. The most I will concede is that it might well have crossed the mind of one or both parents at some stage that they would be better off without Madeleine.

There is one thing that makes me certain that this was not pre-planned. What a terrible mess they made of it. Madeleine crying and overheard by neighbours. False stories about shutters being jemmied open. Tapas 9 in a state of confusion over timelines. Jane Tanner at 6s and 7s about whether she saw an abductor and what he looked like. Madeleine dead in Apartment 5a and blood and cadaverine oozing out of her pathetic little body.

No, that was not pre-planned.

Off the top of my head, I can think immediately of 10 better ways to make an unwanted child 'disappear'. But I won't go into detail

BARNABY: I think that if parents lost a child because of an accident, regardless of their instinct to preserve their status, there would have to have been more grief involved & I think that even if they managed to dispose of the body & concoct the abduction theory, they would still be too disoriented to spring into action with funds etc. so quickly.

REPLY: Gerry McCann and Kate McCann are nothing if not quick thinkers. They are impelled by what they see as a desperate force of necessity to promulgate and promote a lie. And IMO they are very cunning

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[Barnaby]

^^^^^^

You are probably right Tony, it just comes to mind Gerry saying on the video that he was not there to have fun, strange for anyone to say going on holidays! Then there was the report of a Social Worker saying that they had tried to have Madeleine adopted! Whatever way it happened, I don't think she was a loved child, I always have the vision of that photograph where she was biting her little lip & looking afraid!

I do agree that they are extremely cunning people! Not particularly bright though in the way they screwed up their stories! Just looking at a news item where it is recommended that doctors be assessed yearly as to their competency soon! What a brilliant idea, with misdiagnoses costing lives every year!

 

[gord]

gord wrote: "hello - they have been cleared..."

REPLY: gord, HELLO!! - sorry for the shout there, but you don't seem to be one of the world's greatest listeners.

Um, someone is 'cleared' when a jury finds them 'not guilty'.

The investigation has been suspended, not closed down. There is evidence, but not sufficient evidence.

Now that you're listening properly - hello again, they have not been cleared

P.S. Woof! Woof!

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No Tony - you dont listen or see - they have not been charged of anything not a jot of charges .

They have been CLEARED of charges . I know it is difficult to understand but that is what has happened

 

[colomom]

No Tony - you dont listen or see - they have not been charged of anything not a jot of charges .

They have been CLEARED of charges . I know it is difficult to understand but that is what has happened

They were never charged....I know it is difficult to understand but that is what has happened.

 

[colomom]

From: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2404919&postcount=342

Madeleine case

PJ will continue to follow every lead

The national director of the Polícia Judiciária guaranteed today that every lead that appears, in connection with the Madeleine McCann case, which was archived by the Public Ministry on Monday, will continue to be followed.

“What I consider to be important is that the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) will continue to follow every lead that may appear and it expects to do so in silence, without noises and obviously without the presence of the media”, the PJ’s national director, Almeida Rodrigues, stated to Lusa agency today.

“If any elements that allow for us to proceed with the investigations appear, that will certainly be done”, he added.

The Public Ministry decided on Monday to archive the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, and to lift the condition of arguidos from the minor’s parents and from Robert Murat, safeguarding that the process may be reopened if “new elements of proof” appear.

According to a note from the Attorney General’s Office, despite the archiving, the inquiry may be reopened by the initiative of the Public Ministry or upon request from an interested party if “new elements of proof appear, that give origin to serious, pertinent and consequent diligences”.

Doesn't sound like it "over" to me.....

 

[gord]

From: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2404919&postcount=342

Madeleine case

PJ will continue to follow every lead

The national director of the Polícia Judiciária guaranteed today that every lead that appears, in connection with the Madeleine McCann case, which was archived by the Public Ministry on Monday, will continue to be followed.

“What I consider to be important is that the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) will continue to follow every lead that may appear and it expects to do so in silence, without noises and obviously without the presence of the media”, the PJ’s national director, Almeida Rodrigues, stated to Lusa agency today.

“If any elements that allow for us to proceed with the investigations appear, that will certainly be done”, he added.

The Public Ministry decided on Monday to archive the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, and to lift the condition of arguidos from the minor’s parents and from Robert Murat, safeguarding that the process may be reopened if “new elements of proof” appear.

According to a note from the Attorney General’s Office, despite the archiving, the inquiry may be reopened by the initiative of the Public Ministry or upon request from an interested party if “new elements of proof appear, that give origin to serious, pertinent and consequent diligences”.

Doesn't sound like it "over" to me.....

great - why dont you and tony get together and send them over all your new evidence that you seem to have gathered over the past few days