Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 24

[Salem]

Right.

And worth noting there are two people that say they did not see Jane nor the "bundleman." Only one person, Jane herself, says she was there, and Jane is also the only person who saw Bundleman.

And Jane's account is the only outside verification other than Kate's immediate assumption that Madeleine had been taken because according to Kate "She wouldn't walk out."

Texana - I just re-read my post and realized how agressive it sounded. I'm so glad you understood I was not meaning it that way. I am truly astounded by this map that Jane drew and I can clearly see why the PJ had such questions and wanted a reconstruction. And I see why the Tapas 9 did not want a reconstruction.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Good points about the wine Barnaby. Or they have only had to pay for the more expensive wine.

I went on an all inclusive vacation to Mexio. Had the best "grownup" vacation of my life and I was sick with a cold at the time. We did not have to pay for anything unless we left the resort. But there were limits to the variety of things that were offered, especially the types of wine.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Okay - I'm asking April, Daffodil and Gordon what they think of Jane's map? Your input would be appreciated. How do you think Jane got by Gerry and Jeremy without out being seen?

Salem

 

[gord]

IW don't forget they were on an all inclusive holiday that included drinks with dinner - bottles of wine so they probably drank all that was free then had to start paying. So if they were allowed one bottle of wine each with dinner then paid for 2 that is 11 bottles plus what they drank before dinner!

I ma not sure where you got the all inclusive from - Mark Warners holiday are half board mainly ie B&B - pay for your own booze - check their web site - not one all inclusive in any of their holidays

do you know different ?

 

[gord]

Okay - I'm asking April, Daffodil and Gordon what they think of Jane's map? Your input would be appreciated. How do you think Jane got by Gerry and Jeremy without out being seen?

Salem

no idea - this is the first time I have ever seen what can be construed as a witness statement - It does seem strange that Gerry and Wilkins didnt see her -but it only takes a minute either way and they could have missed each other - I would like to see her actual written statement with times though

 

[daffodil]

Okay - I'm asking April, Daffodil and Gordon what they think of Jane's map? Your input would be appreciated. How do you think Jane got by Gerry and Jeremy without out being seen?

Salem

The map wont appear for me :waitasec:

 

[colomom]

The map wont appear for me :waitasec:

back up one page

 

[SleuthMom]

What happened with my latest thread? Anyone?

 

[colomom]

what happened with my latest thread? Anyone?

pm...

 

[chicoliving]

I'm gonna say it was removed for review. Just a hunch.

 

[SleuthMom]

I'm gonna say it was removed for review. Just a hunch.

Really? I read it and didn't find anything offensive.:waitasec: Anyhow....

 

[colomom]

I'm gonna say it was removed for review. Just a hunch.

Thank you CL. I agree that review was necessary.

 

[SleuthMom]

Thank you CL. I agree that review was necessary.

I think they moved it before I got a chance to read all the posts.

Hope they bring it back.

 

[Texana]

no idea - this is the first time I have ever seen what can be construed as a witness statement - It does seem strange that Gerry and Wilkins didnt see her -but it only takes a minute either way and they could have missed each other - I would like to see her actual written statement with times though

Reasonable thought, although Wilkins and McCann seem to have stood there for awhile--is my memory correct in that Jeremy had his child with him?

An explanation of the times being off would be more reasonable an explanation than anything else.

At the same time, we have two contradictions in McCann accounts that are unaccounted for:

May 1st events: Mrs. Fenn states that she heard Madeleine crying for an hour and 15 minutes. The McCanns state that their usual routine is checking on the children every 30 minutes.

It is actually more favorable for the McCanns and the theory of abduction if they admit that they were not strict on the check in times, perhaps, that the night before, there was more of a 45-1 hr. 15 minute window. If anyone WAS observing, that would make more sense in emboldening that person(s).

Jeremy/Gerry vs. Jane: The two men state they neither see Jane nor the Bundleman. Jane sticks to her story, but there is no explanation for her going unnoticed by either man. Please help me remember--Did she say she saw either man? As I recall, she said she did not, but I could be wrong.

Jane could have had the time wrong, the location wrong, but again, she sticks adamantly to her story. Furthermore, her dictated picture becomes more detailed as time progresses, which is clearly a violation of the usual witness sketch procedures. First recollections are the clearest.

 

[colomom]

From:

Pictures of Maddie at a store??

Hello??? Last photo of Maddie....how long is her hair?? FFS, the British Media is in deep, deep trouble.

 

[Salem]

Thanks for the response Gord.

Texana - I agree the times could be off, but then why would Jane draw G&J on the map? Doesn't make sense.....

Jane drew the map. She shows G&J standing on sidewalk between her and Tapas bar. She shows herself on the same side of the street as G&J. She would have had to walk around them, in order to reach her position as shown on the map that she drew.

If they were not there, she would have left them off the map as having not seen them, or showed that she walked on the other side of the street, or....... I don't know? I'm thinking she was coming back from the apts - not heading towards them, myself. But if that is the case, then she had her back to the bundleman. In fact, if I remember correctly, the first article or so about this said Jane was heading to the Tapas bar, then later is was said she was returning to the apts.

My head is spinning......

Salem

 

[SleuthMom]

Reasonable thought, although Wilkins and McCann seem to have stood there for awhile--is my memory correct in that Jeremy had his child with him?

Yes, if I remember correctly, in a stroller.

 

[Texana]

Thanks for the response Gord.

Texana - I agree the times could be off, but then why would Jane draw G&J on the map? Doesn't make sense.....

Jane drew the map. She shows G&J standing on sidewalk between her and Tapas bar. She shows herself on the same side of the street as G&J. She would have had to walk around them, in order to reach her position as shown on the map that she drew.

If they were not there, she would have left them off the map as having not seen them, or showed that she walked on the other side of the street, or....... I don't know? I'm thinking she was coming back from the apts - not heading towards them, myself. But if that is the case, then she had her back to the bundleman. In fact, if I remember correctly, the first article or so about this said Jane was heading to the Tapas bar, then later is was said she was returning to the apts.

My head is spinning......

Salem

mine, too. Jane's account just doesn't hold up when examined, yet, she sticks to it and no one seems to question it. How odd!

I think your idea that she was coming back, not going, makes more sense. But again, that leaves out the way she saw the bundleman...

There are problems with Jane's story, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Texana]

Yes, if I remember correctly, in a stroller.

Right. So anyone going around them, would have to walk around the stroller as well, making it harder for Jeremy or Gerry to be oblivious to someone passing, particularly Jane or someone who knew them--who would surely say, "Hello" at least in passing.

I think we can throw out the "oblivious" explanation,.

There might be some other explanation that allows both of them to be correct, but "oblivious" isn't it.

 

[SleuthMom]

Texana, this is one of the parts of the whole "story" that does not add up to me. Jane's account is odd, I do think she is lying because of the many things she has been adding from her first report. Secondly, Gerry stated he did not see her (even though this would be somewhat supportive of his "abduction" story) :waitasec: BUT probably if he was alone things would have been different but he was with ANOTHER man, he cannot lie or try to knowing the other man may tell the truth, no?