Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 24

[colomom]

John and Patsy Ramsey.

...wrong

 

[colomom]

I know that evidence from cadaver dogs is not always admissible in a court of law. The use of cadaver dogs is a search tool. Anything they find has to be backed up with DNA evidence.

I really don't know much about them, so I looked at an article about their training. I will post a link. The trainer was explaining different ways the dogs could get a false alert and why and how the problem could be fixed.

http://www.jonnijoyce.com/articles/archive/cadaver_dog.htm

Sometimes dogs give a false alert, because they are cuing from the signals of the handlers rather than the actual scents. Sometimes they are so anxious to please and receive their treats that they will give a false alert.

I'm sure some of them have a good percentage rate, but I don't believe there are any that are ever 100%. They are a good tool for law enforcement, but that's all. A conviction would never be arrived at based on cadaver dogs alone.

I did not ask about cadaver/blood dogs in general, I asked about Eddie and Keela specifically.

Why do you think that these highly trained (best in the world) with an incredible record (not a single false positive in over 200 cases) alerted to anything in the McCann apartment or car?

Do you honestly believe that after all that success it would be on this case that they would all of a sudden starting getting "anxious to please"?

What would explain this sudden change in their behavior?

 

[daffodil]

...wrong

I think not.

 

[SleuthMom]

I think not.

Since I am not very familiar with that case therefore I cannot give an opinion, please back up your claim with whatever info you may have. Thanks.

 

[Claycat]

I did not ask about cadaver/blood dogs in general, I asked about Eddie and Keela specifically.

Why do you think that these highly trained (best in the world) with an incredible record (not a single false positive in over 200 cases) alerted to anything in the McCann apartment or car?

Do you honestly believe that after all that success it would be on this case that they would all of a sudden starting getting "anxious to please"?

What would explain this sudden change in their behavior?

It is interesting that you would bring this cadaver dog thing up. A lawyer, in a news panel about Caylee, was talking about cadaver dogs today. He said that we have seen from the McCann case that the accuracy of cadaver dogs goes down significantly when there is no body present. I think it's possible that applies to most cadaver dogs, including Eddie & Keela.

 

[colomom]

I think not.

Please provide me with proof of John and Patsy Ramsey being named suspects, officially, by LE, in the case of their murdered daughter.

Thank you.

 

[colomom]

It is interesting that you would bring this cadaver dog thing up. A lawyer, in a news panel about Caylee, was talking about cadaver dogs today. He said that we have seen from the McCann case that the accuracy of cadaver dogs goes down significantly when there is no body present. I think it's possible that applies to most cadaver dogs, including Eddie & Keela.

I have never heard that this is the case...please back up your statement with documentation from experts (more than one man's opinion would be good). Thanks.

 

[Barnaby]

Such is the technique of a master manipulator.

MMMMMM as in thou doest protest too much or the well known Reverse Psychology!

 

[colomom]

MMMMMM as in thou doest protest too much or the well known Reverse Psychology!

It is a fine art B and difficult to detect...unless, of course, you are a master manipulator yourself. Not reverse psychology, more like perfect plucking of the heartstrings....

 

[Claycat]

I have never heard that this is the case...please back up your statement with documentation from experts (more than one man's opinion would be good). Thanks.

Since I have long believed that Madeleine is still alive, I most graciously decline. Until they find a body, I will continue to believe this, so cadaver dogs or anything else of that nature have no relevance to me, in this case.

 

[Texana]

Since I have long believed that Madeleine is still alive, I most graciously decline. Until they find a body, I will continue to believe this, so cadaver dogs or anything else of that nature have no relevance to me, in this case.

What else do you define as being "of that nature?"

 

[colomom]

Since I have long believed that Madeleine is still alive, I most graciously decline. Until they find a body, I will continue to believe this, so cadaver dogs or anything else of that nature have no relevance to me, in this case.

All righty then Claycat, thanks so much for your input.

 

[april4sky]

Such is the technique of a master manipulator.

Describes Goncalo Amarol and his band of not so merry men to a T

 

[SleuthMom]

Describes Goncalo Amarol and his band of not so merry men to a T

Got an autographed book yet? :innocent:

 

[april4sky]

I did not ask about cadaver/blood dogs in general, I asked about Eddie and Keela specifically.

Why do you think that these highly trained (best in the world) with an incredible record (not a single false positive in over 200 cases) alerted to anything in the McCann apartment or car?

Do you honestly believe that after all that success it would be on this case that they would all of a sudden starting getting "anxious to please"?

What would explain this sudden change in their behavior?

Eddie and Keeler were wrong in Madeleines case..... as there was No confirmed DNA evidence.


http://www.slate.com/id/2174177

Can you trust a cadaver dog if there's no cadaver?

By Torie Bosch
Posted Tuesday, Sept. 18, 2007, at 6:11 PM ET

Cadaver dogs can find the remains of people who have been dead for years or even decades. But it's much harder for the dogs if the bulk of the remains are gone. In that case, they can pick up the scent from small amounts of body tissue, like a blood stain or nail clippings, or even from materials that came into contact with the tissue. But in the absence of an actual body, the smell of death will dissipate. There's speculation that Madeleine died on the night her parents reported her disappearance—which would mean that she passed away four months ago. It's not clear if a detectable scent could linger on her mother's clothes for all that time.

Researchers are trying to determine how long the scent lingers when the body is no longer present, but there are no conclusive results yet—it may be two weeks, or it may be longer.

One former Scotland Yard dog handler talking about the McCann case hypothesized that the scent wouldn't last more than a month.

The dogs couldn't necessarily prove anything even if Madeleine's body had been in recent contact with her mother's clothes. Since they didn't turn up any actual remains, investigators had to rely on the "smell of death" itself, an odor that stems from the decomposition process.
Without a body, they can't be certain that the animals didn't make a mistake. Cadaver dogs do mess up from time to time.
************************

Another example on cadaver dogs.
http://internationalrewardscentre.com/index.php?Itemid=2&id=872&option=com_content&task=view
The judge agreed with an analysis of the three dogs' track record by Zapata's defence team that found they were incorrect 78 per cent, 71 per cent and 62 per cent of the time.

 

[Texana]

Describes Goncalo Amarol and his band of not so merry men to a T

Are they all men, then?

Oh wait, that was a metaphor.

 

[SleuthMom]

I just came across this site entirely in Spanish so I will translate for everyone's benefit, did anyone else hear this? (bold part) It is referring to the nights of 1 and 2nd of May:

She (Kate) slept with the children in the bed that was by the window. When she is confronted with the fact that Maddie have been crying in the nights of the 1st and 2nd of May, she says that Amelie was the one crying for a little bit because Madeleine went to wake them up (twins) and they took her to her bed.

http://www.anglospanishtranslations.com/

 

[Texana]

I just came across this site entirely in Spanish so I will translate for everyone's benefit, did anyone else hear this? (bold part) It is referring to the nights of 1 and 2nd of May:

http://www.anglospanishtranslations.com/

In the photo, the twins were in the porta crib style beds--flat on the floor, high walls, not a way for toddlers to crawl out. How did they take her to her bed?

And her bed was right next to theirs--did Maddie say this? The twins?

 

[SleuthMom]

In the photo, the twins were in the porta crib style beds--flat on the floor, high walls, not a way for toddlers to crawl out. How did they take her to her bed?

And her bed was right next to theirs--did Maddie say this? The twins?

According to the site it was a statement given by Kate Mc Cann on September 2007. Odd.

 

[Salem]

I just came across this site entirely in Spanish so I will translate for everyone's benefit, did anyone else hear this? (bold part) It is referring to the nights of 1 and 2nd of May:

http://www.anglospanishtranslations.com/

I think this means that Maddie went to wake up K&G and K&G took Amelie to their bed. Not that Maddie put the twin in bed with her. I think.

Salem