Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 24

[SleuthMom]

I just came across the ENGLISH version, the SPANISH one I found was wrong. *shaking head*

This is the ENGLISH one:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Declarations of September 6, 2007. The McCanns had a crisis on May 2nd, the night before Maddie's disappearance.

On the night of the 2nd May, Kate and Gerry had a row and she went to sleep with the children.

Kate was angry because Gerry had not paid attention to her during the dinner at the Tapas. Kate didn't remember if she had been to the apartment in the afternoon. When Kate went to the children's bedroom, Gerry had fallen asleep, so she couldn't tell if he noticed or not she had left the room. She slept with the children, on the bed located under the window. When Kate was confronted by the PJ with the fact that Maddie had cried on the nights of the 1st and 2nd of May, Kate said that the one that had been crying was Amelie, and for a short while, because Madeleine woke them up and they took Amelie to their bedroom. Kate described in all detail what she did in the afternoon of May 3rd, but she could not remember if she had been back in the apartment to change clothes or for any other reason. She remembered she went to play tennis and jogging and that before having dinner she read a story to the children.

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[SleuthMom]

So this is the statement about the 2nd of May not the 1st then. I am interested to know if Kate or Gerry have commented about May 1st. Anyone?

 

[april4sky]

Okay - I understand better now. However, keeping in mind that Kate was considered an arguido at the time she wrote the letter - how do you think her treatment was different from Matthews after she was named a suspect and arrested?

I do believe the McCann were treated respectfully prior to their suspected involvement in the case. Gerry said on a number of occasions that they had daily/weekly meetings with the PJ for status updates. If this case would have happened in the US, all of the Tapas 9 would have been subjected to lie detector tests, etc. There would have been no allowance for the fact that they were tourists, etc.

The laws in Portugal are somewhat different than the laws in the UK, AU or US. Kate was given arguido status so that she could refuse to answer questions. In my opinion, this was an easy out for her. When a person in named a suspect in the US - it is not so they can refuse to answer questions, but because it is highly likely they committed the crime accused of. The PJ believed they had evidence and that more evidence would be forthcoming after the highly specialized testing was completed at FSS. In essence, I think the PJ did the McCanns a favor by Portugal's standards. Unlike how it would be interpreted in our countries.


Salem

Salem in the Matthews case the child was found before anyone knew of the Mothers involvement.
If the police suspected Shannons mother earlier they kept it to themselves and worked the case professionally.
When Shannon was found her mother tried to visit her but was told she needed some time to recover from her ordeal. And over time Shannon talked to a child expert about what happened.

Her mother wasn't named a suspect and wasn't charged until the police had their evidence.

I don't believe the UK or US would have treated the McCanns so badly, nor would they have been named arguidos/suspects without some evidence.

False claims about DNA wouldn't do it!

The police in the Caylee Anthony case are waiting for the results of the DNA tests...as they should do.
They are not making assumptions.

 

[Barnaby]

It is a fine art B and difficult to detect...unless, of course, you are a master manipulator yourself. Not reverse psychology, more like perfect plucking of the heartstrings....

Yes, well they didn't even do that well, a few more crocodile tears might have helped & perhaps some more wiping away the imaginary ones???

 

[colomom]

In case you missed this posted on 3As...

This is the Photo Fit (sketch) of the couple that were with the little girl in the Dutch shop. Did you see that the shopkeeper's name was Anna Stamm (from Amsterdam)?? Unreal....

Freaky, eh?

 

[Texana]

Colomom, that's beyond weird.

 

[Barnaby]

In case you missed this posted on 3As...

This is the Photo Fit (sketch) of the couple that were with the little girl in the Dutch shop. Did you see that the shopkeeper's name was Anna Stamm (from Amsterdam)?? Unreal....

Freaky, eh?

OMG! Freaky indeed! Thanks for posting Colomon.

 

[SleuthMom]

My goodness!!!!!

 

[Salem]

I agree with all of the above. It looks just like K&G!!!!!!!!!!!

Could there be clones of K&G and they have a Maddie too????

Bizarrrrrrrrrrrrrrre!

 

[april4sky]

The McCanns first phone call and the truth about the smear!!

The SMEAR!! Repeated on the Portuguese Media thread Websleuths Post 63

"The first call that Gerry made on the night of the crime was to Alistair Clark, a good friend from university days and a diplomat who is close to Gordon Brown. Clark made contacts at the highest level and - before Policia Judiciaria - already Sky News and the British Ambassador were being informed about the abduction."

The truth!! The first call the McCanns made was to the police!! Confirmed by Portuguese prosecutors!!

http://www.the-news.net/cgi-bin/google.pl?id=971-2

"Prosecutors also confirm that the first call made by the couple after their daughter went missing was to the police, and not to a British television station as had been widely claimed in some sections of the Portuguese media quoting police sources."

The truth!! Contacting the Media…From the Final report thread Websleuths post No 9.

“It should be pointed out, in terms of the media knowledge and divulgation, that witness RACHEL MAMPILLY, at around 2 a.m. on the morning of the 4th, assumes to have contacted the official British television BBC, through someone that she knew, reporting the disappearance and asking for it to be broadcast.”

Good to see the truth of this particular nasty smear!!

 

[april4sky]

Regarding Eddie and Keeler...We can't get a better expert on these two dogs than their own handler......
Martin Grimes report to the PJ....
No intelligence reliability can be placed on the results.

It is interesting that you would bring this cadaver dog thing up. A lawyer, in a news panel about Caylee, was talking about cadaver dogs today. He said that we have seen from the McCann case that the accuracy of cadaver dogs goes down significantly when there is no body present. I think it's possible that applies to most cadaver dogs, including Eddie & Keela.

I have never heard that this is the case...please back up your statement with documentation from experts (more than one man's opinion would be good). Thanks.

Eddie and Keelers handler Martin Grimes and Mark Harrison the search experts report.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4493335.ece

The case file contains documents showing that Mark Harrison, the British search expert, and Martin Grimes, the dog-handler, warned that the results should be treated with caution. They insisted that corroborating evidence” was needed and that no “intelligence reliability could be placed on the results”. “

 

[Claycat]

That article is so disheartening, April! It doesn't look like they even tried to look for Madeleine. LE wanted a quick fix to the situation. They didn't want to find a little girl. They wanted a conviction!

So, Metodo3 is out and a new group of international investigators is in! I hope they do a better job!

 

[Barnaby]

That article is so disheartening, April! It doesn't look like they even tried to look for Madeleine. LE wanted a quick fix to the situation. They didn't want to find a little girl. They wanted a conviction!

So, Metodo3 is out and a new group of international investigators is in! I hope they do a better job!

If Metodo3 are out, what took Kate & Gerry so long to dismiss them when they showed their lack of competence almost a year ago? They shovelled public money to these crooks, I wonder why?

 

[Claycat]

April, I believe the worm has turned in regard to the McCanns! It looks as though things are picking up. It's a shame it didn't happen much sooner.

 

[colomom]

Regarding Eddie and Keeler...We can't get a better expert on these two dogs than their own handler......
Martin Grimes report to the PJ....
No intelligence reliability can be placed on the results.


Eddie and Keelers handler Martin Grimes and Mark Harrison the search experts report.

Sorry April....that report by Martin Grimes has nothing to do with Claycat's reference that "the accuracy of cadaver dogs goes down significantly when there is no body present". I am well aware that in a court of law the findings of the dogs does not carry as much weight without the body.

That does not mean that Edddie and KEELA did not accurately detect death in 5A.

How do you suppose the PJ could be so sure of the first call that was made that night? Perhaps that was the first call placed from the apartment phone. After all, we all know that the McCanns refused to turn over their cell phone records, don't we?

 

[SleuthMom]

April, what are your thoughts (if you don't mind sharing them) with regards to the sketch of the couple that were with the little girl in the Dutch shop and its incredible resemblance to the Mc Canns.

 

[april4sky]

Sorry April....that report by Martin Grimes has nothing to do with Claycat's reference that "the accuracy of cadaver dogs goes down significantly when there is no body present". I am well aware that in a court of law the findings of the dogs does not carry as much weight without the body.

That does not mean that Edddie and KEELA did not accurately detect death in 5A.

How do you suppose the PJ could be so sure of the first call that was made that night? Perhaps that was the first call placed from the apartment phone. After all, we all know that the McCanns refused to turn over their cell phone records, don't we?

I am well aware it didn't cover the accuracy question but it was specific to Eddie and Keela and their handler Martin Grimes...

But perhaps you forgot this article where experts do cover it.

http://www.slate.com/id/2174177

Can you trust a cadaver dog if there's no cadaver?

By Torie Bosch
Posted Tuesday, Sept. 18, 2007, at 6:11 PM ET

Cadaver dogs can find the remains of people who have been dead for years or even decades. But it's much harder for the dogs if the bulk of the remains are gone. In that case, they can pick up the scent from small amounts of body tissue, like a blood stain or nail clippings, or even from materials that came into contact with the tissue. But in the absence of an actual body, the smell of death will dissipate. There's speculation that Madeleine died on the night her parents reported her disappearance—which would mean that she passed away four months ago. It's not clear if a detectable scent could linger on her mother's clothes for all that time.

Researchers are trying to determine how long the scent lingers when the body is no longer present, but there are no conclusive results yet—it may be two weeks, or it may be longer.

One former Scotland Yard dog handler talking about the McCann case hypothesized that the scent wouldn't last more than a month.

The dogs couldn't necessarily prove anything even if Madeleine's body had been in recent contact with her mother's clothes. Since they didn't turn up any actual remains, investigators had to rely on the "smell of death" itself, an odor that stems from the decomposition process.
Without a body, they can't be certain that the animals didn't make a mistake. Cadaver dogs do mess up from time to time.
************************

Another example on cadaver dogs.
http://internationalrewardscentre.com/index.php?Itemid=2&id=872&option=com_content&task= view
The judge agreed with an analysis of the three dogs' track record by Zapata's defence team that found they were incorrect 78 per cent, 71 per cent and 62 per cent of the time.

 

[Claycat]

If Metodo3 are out, what took Kate & Gerry so long to dismiss them when they showed their lack of competence almost a year ago? They shovelled public money to these crooks, I wonder why?

I wondered that, but I believe they had a contract. I'm not certain.

I thought of something interesting, though. I don't believe a couple that was guilty of killing their child would turn around and hire very expensive investigators with the money from the libel suit. I do believe they truly want to find Madeleine.

 

[SleuthMom]

. I don't believe a couple that was guilty of killing their child would turn around and hire very expensive investigators with the money from the libel suit. I do believe they truly want to find Madeleine.

Remember there are people (media) checking their EVERY move, they aren't stupid.

 

[maya.morgen]

I don't know if it means anything but this is the first time I post about this case even if I am following it daily.

Hope I will make some sense.

1.I think the Mccanns are hiding a lot of things,so are at least 2 of the Tapas.
2.I trust cadaver dogs.
3.Even if cleared I still have my doubts regarding Murat's involvement in all this.
4.Metodo3 and the Pj are a bad joke
5.Unfortunately I believe Maddie is no longer with us and she will probably never be found.


I was so sure once that her parents are guilty,not so sure anymore after seeing what went on behind the scenes(Pj).
I can't exclude the kidnapping theory anymore.