Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #18

[C.greek]

Exactly.
Why mention them at all?

Because it refers to the case of missing MM and it is bureaucratic parlance? They did not notify the Dutch authorities, the only say where the case of MM is documented.
IMO there is nothing more to that.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Maybe due to many assumed sightings in the Netherlands and HB's clues to CB.

Reported sightings of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia

 

[Sharkbite]

Maybe the dutch authorities had been alarmed by the media, because of the ominous letter, they have recieved?

Cops hunt witness who ‘lived by reservoir where note claimed Maddie was dumped’

According to Shining in Luz it was the British gardener/handyman that PJ interviewed on the 12 May 2007 that found the note on the 03 May 2008.
See the articles from the 16 and 26th Nov 2014 for further info.

 

[BIZCOCHO]

In my opinion, the witnesses spoke because the investigation got to them sooner than we think. My theory is that someone in Germany starts to put the puzzle together (2013 suspicions + NM complaint + abuse of his ex-girlfriend's daughter + box factory) and witnesses discover that there is an investigation that may harm them (via a detective who tries to contact them, a mutual friend or CB) and they decide that contacting SY is the most convenient.
They may not be directly involved, but they may have collaborated in some way, they may have been in previous robberies at OC, there may be another pal involved.
They didn't speak until CB became a suspect. IMO

 

[BIZCOCHO]

In my opinion, the witnesses spoke because the investigation got to them sooner than we think. My theory is that someone in Germany starts to put the puzzle together (2013 suspicions + NM complaint + abuse of his ex-girlfriend's daughter + box factory) and witnesses discover that there is an investigation that may harm them (via a detective who tries to contact them, a mutual friend or CB) and they decide that contacting SY is the most convenient.
They may not be directly involved, but they may have collaborated in some way, they may have been in previous robberies at OC, there may be another pal involved.
They didn't speak until CB became a suspect. IMO

 

[Dlk79]

The man testified at the trial of Christian Brueckner in December, stating he saw a film sequence on the video camera in which an older woman was bound and masked and whipped then raped.

'Then the man sat on the bed and pulled the mask off his face. Then I thought: That can't be. ' He recognised the house occupant.

I’m reading this different, I am reading the above quote as either HB or MS are saying that they viewed footage of the rape of DM, the man then sat on the bed & removed his mask....we know he dragged DM to the bedroom & that she was bound, masked & whipped. From media articles we were lead to believe the rape footage found on camera the victims were tied to the beam and in the photos we’ve seen with beam we haven’t seen a bed.
I’m quite sure I read the other day that HB said he hadn’t viewed footage of attack on DM.

No, that's right. The video they found in the farmhouse was NOT of DM but the similarities of the attack are profound which is what led them associate CB with the DM rape.

My understading is that BKA interviewed HB and MS about MM and at some point, they brought up the rape video they witnessed. BKA then did a search of cold crimes that fitted that same MO which turned up the DM case. They then decided to test the hair that was found there and got a match with CB. That forensic evidence, combined with HB and MS witness testimony of them seeing CB coduct an almost identical attack were then used to convict CB.

Remember, in German courts it is down to the judge, not a jury, to determine guilt. The hair was pretty damning in itself but when it is claimed by 2 separate witnesses that he carried out another attack with the exact same MO, CB's version about petting a cat becomes far less believable.

 

[C.greek]

Someone needs to enlighten FF.
Do we think he knows that HB didn't get a reduced sentence for the MM info or that he's being economical with the truth to discredit the witness further?

IMO FF knows the reason for HB's early release - it's impossible not to have made further searches on that. If I can find such laws (and there was a big furore in Greece at the time because many criminals were released this way, so they somehow amended the law in Dec 2017 in relation to which criminals/inmates should not be considered for early release) I am sure FF could find them as well. He is just wondering why HB got an early release... (for the press and the public I imagine)

 

[Dlk79]

Sorry, the below is intended for Dlk 79 but I struggled with the quote thingy!

Thanks for the images, it helps a lot. I think I am beginning to agree with you. There are still some oddities though if you are correct which I would be interested to get your input on:

1. The modifications to the house include widening the window from the interior photo and moving the fireplace wall back towards the centre of the house? It would be easier to rebuild and start again?
2. The beam has to be structural, there is no other reason for it but it is close to the end of the house, where an external structural wall would be? It would seem more logical for the beam to be in the middle of the house?
3. The only way to enter/exit this room is from the outside. To access other parts Of the very small house, you would need to go outside and back in through the door at the front of the house? This seems weird.

The Berkshire GF Stating that it is this house was always a strong point but perhaps she could be mistaken?

In answer to your points-

1. I reckon the entire interior was probably guttted out and completely remodellled. The original structure looks like 2 seperate buildings and very dated. I wouldn't necessarily say it was 'easier' to knock down the entire structure and start again though, it certainly wouldn't be cheaper.

2. If you look at the left roof in the first pic, I would say the beam is supporting that roof only, right in the centre. It looks like an extension to me. The beam may even have been added at a later date due to a poorly built roof which had started to sag perhaps.

3. I presume you are saying that as we can't see a door in the second pic below which would lead to the other section of the house? If you look at the chimney from the aerial view and in the first pic, it's not quite in the centre of the roof which means the fireplace isn't either. The beam in this second pic shows this even more since that beam would be in the centre of the roof you'd expect. If you take the beam to be the centre of the room, there is obviously a lot more of the room to the right of the bookcase that we can't see in this picture. I would suggest the door is there, next to the bookcase, that leads to the rest of the house.

All JMO of course. The Berkshire GF standing outside the house, a house she claimed to visit frequently would lead me to believe it's unlikley she was mistaken.

And again, as I pointed out earlier, the windows look to be identical in design and colour. The ones in the first pic look to me to be sliding windows based on that thin frame design, and one pane looks closer than the other. You can then see in pic 3 the window appears to be slid ajar on the right hand side and there are two edge frames overlapping in the centre of the window.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, one of the reasons BKA released pictures of the house with the beam is that they were hoping for the young German girl to come forward who was viewed in the rape videos. This article about the tape found in the farmhouse burglary again seems to imply the rape took place in the farmhouse.

Yes interesting. Maybe they hoped to create a media splash to get him for that?

It would make a lot of sense actually, having got him on the rape of the 72 year old, for them to be very focussed on the second video.

 

[Monic]

The note, still exist?
Or a picture of the note?
Because of the handwriting

 

[Chiatos]

Because it refers to the case of missing MM and it is bureaucratic parlance? They did not notify the Dutch authorities, the only say where the case of MM is documented.
IMO there is nothing more to that.

Why would MM's case at all be documented in NL?
Whenever a Dutch national goes missing abroad, the Dutch authorities look the other way and won't get involved.
Why would they document a disappearance of a foreign national and be mentioned by Greek authorities?

Maybe due to many assumed sightings in the Netherlands and HB's clues to CB.
Reported sightings of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia

Assumed sightings are not enough to document MM's case in NL.

Here's something for an investigational journalist: what links NL to Greece and the MM case?

 

[MENDEL]

Exactly.
Why mention them at all?

That's red tape. They must state that they're dealing with a legitimate investigation.

 

[Sharkbite]

The note, still exist?
Or a picture of the note?
Because of the handwriting

The note no longer exists and there is apparently no record of LE ever having received it.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In answer to your points-

1. I reckon the entire interior was probably guttted out and completely remodellled. The original structure looks like 2 seperate buildings and very dated. I wouldn't necessarily say it was 'easier' to knock down the entire structure and start again though, it certainly wouldn't be cheaper.

2. If you look at the left roof in the first pic, I would say the beam is supporting that roof only, right in the centre. It looks like an extension to me. The beam may even have been added at a later date due to a poorly built roof which had started to sag perhaps.

3. I presume you are saying that as we can't see a door in the second pic below which would lead to the other section of the house? If you look at the chimney from the aerial view and in the first pic, it's not quite in the centre of the roof which means the fireplace isn't either. The beam in this second pic shows this even more since that beam would be in the centre of the roof you'd expect. If you take the beam to be the centre of the room, there is obviously a lot more of the room to the right of the bookcase that we can't see in this picture. I would suggest the door is there, next to the bookcase, that leads to the rest of the house.

All JMO of course. The Berkshire GF standing outside the house, a house she claimed to visit frequently would lead me to believe it's unlikley she was mistaken.

And again, as I pointed out earlier, the windows look to be identical in design and colour. The ones in the first pic look to me to be sliding windows based on that thin frame design, and one pane looks closer than the other. You can then see in pic 3 the window appears to be slid ajar on the right hand side and there are two edge frames overlapping in the centre of the window.

Based on the information we have, a lot has to happen to match that interior to the exterior of the PDL Farmhouse. Fair play to you, you’ve got me across the line that it could be the same house - well done!

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I'm not sure why the Dutch would still be involved. I know they were in the early days when GM received emails from an individual claiming to have information and would exchange for monetary payment. These emails were being sent from an internet café in Holland and so it was staked out. Also MM resided in Amsterdam for some time after being born with GM studying there. The pregnancy of the twins was realised whilst they were living there. I'm not sure if any of this would warrant their interest X

 

[tedtink]

Why would MM's case at all be documented in NL?
Whenever a Dutch national goes missing abroad, the Dutch authorities look the other way and won't get involved.
Why would they document a disappearance of a foreign national and be mentioned by Greek authorities?


Assumed sightings are not enough to document MM's case in NL.

Here's something for an investigational journalist: what links NL to Greece and the MM case?

The link is how the EU recorded missing persons imo.
MM's abduction pre dates the full implementation of SIS11 and Sirene.
This is all to do with an old framework of reporting and the implementation of those systems imo, whilst the new system was in it's infancy.
It may be a good idea to search EU treaties, the implementation of SIS11 and how and where entries were recorded,before going off on a tangent and allowing this 'Dutch' mention to grow legs!

 

[Victoria Chambers]

In my opinion, the witnesses spoke because the investigation got to them sooner than we think. My theory is that someone in Germany starts to put the puzzle together (2013 suspicions + NM complaint + abuse of his ex-girlfriend's daughter + box factory) and witnesses discover that there is an investigation that may harm them (via a detective who tries to contact them, a mutual friend or CB) and they decide that contacting SY is the most convenient.
They may not be directly involved, but they may have collaborated in some way, they may have been in previous robberies at OC, there may be another pal involved.
They didn't speak until CB became a suspect. IMO

I agree. Guilty by association! It would be interesting to know the name of HB Bulgarian lady friend who is tied to the phone he used. X

 

[C.greek]

I agree. Guilty by association! It would be interesting to know the name of HB Bulgarian lady friend who is tied to the phone he used. X

If you see the translations of the files you'll find her name. But better not to bring seemingly innocent people in this discussion.

 

[Chiatos]

The link is how the EU recorded missing persons imo.
MM's abduction pre dates the full implementation of SIS11 and Sirene.
This is all to do with an old framework of reporting and the implementation of those systems imo, whilst the new system was in it's infancy.
It may be a good idea to search EU treaties, the implementation of SIS11 and how and where entries were recorded,before going off on a tangent and allowing this 'Dutch' mention to grow legs!

Assuming the registration predates 2011. OK let's assume that.

The UK has probably also paid a registration fee to NL for this service?
(Or would this service be available free of charge?)

 

[snowpea666]

The man testified at the trial of Christian Brueckner in December, stating he saw a film sequence on the video camera in which an older woman was bound and masked and whipped then raped.

'Then the man sat on the bed and pulled the mask off his face. Then I thought: That can't be. ' He recognised the house occupant.

I’m reading this different, I am reading the above quote as either HB or MS are saying that they viewed footage of the rape of DM, the man then sat on the bed & removed his mask....we know he dragged DM to the bedroom & that she was bound, masked & whipped. From media articles we were lead to believe the rape footage found on camera the victims were tied to the beam and in the photos we’ve seen with beam we haven’t seen a bed.
I’m quite sure I read the other day that HB said he hadn’t viewed footage of attack on DM.

so we had DM, HB? the young German girl, the Italian woman who else ?