Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[SuperdadV8]

HCW stated, that german prosecuters are convinced that CB abducted and killed MM. Possibly abused her before.

HCW assumes, that the special mobile number has been logged in the area on may the 3rd, without caring about a possible mast range. HCW is interested in the other caller.

When asked if he can put CB in 5A, he stated that the answer to that question would cause more questions, and he isn't willing to answer it.

IMO, CB hasn't been in 5A to snatch her. But he likely had a horrible job to do that day, that would change his life and he wouldn't be seen for a while. Maybe according to a formerly abducted child, that has become a "damaged good" due to the massive media attention hours after.

CB used FF as his messenger, by making FF quoting him that he won't coorporate, until holy water will be served in hell.

IMO HCW and FF know both, which part CB played on may the 3rd. IMO CB really hasn't been in 5A that night, but he played part of something and maybe had the "dirty work" to to. Maybe the "transporter" or "Mr. Clean" or something. Or he didn't made the dirty work, but has been accused indirectly to make him talk what really happened, or being accused as the murderer. It depends on his unknown confessions.

FF's comprehensible quote: "Just because somebody is a paedophile, he ain't a murderer. Big dilemma-situation for CB, FF and HCW. Like a mexican standoff....?!

That thing is getting more and more interesting IMO.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

The solution is IMO this. The Ukranian man MK (who was seen carrying a child by the English couple) had been driving the white Toyota Hilux pickup, which he did not own, it was owned by his Portuguese employer CALN.
MK himself owned the grey (cinzento) VW Golf.
The young portuguese couple who were additional witnesses were in a small red car (which PJ correctly did not run a trace on).

Sorry redplanet. We must be reading different statements. I cannot find any red car or Portuguese couple in the McCluskey sighting. Just the white pick up truck. A dark car with 2 men in who could speak English. And a further non English speaking blonde lady who made her way on foot. At the top of the Ukranian statement it says, Same incident, 2 vehicles. Then goes on to name the Ukranians as owning the dark one. No mention of anybody's boss or his boss vehicle. You would think the PJ would have interviewed the boss to have the story verified seeing how the man and his daughter were no longer in the country. It's all very strange IMO X

 

[Anxala]

I think I'm correct in saying that K and G were not involved in the writing down of the checks on the scrap of paper taken from a sticker book.

Not that it matters at this late stage but the 2nd account on the ripped off covers of MM's book is GM's. It's signed by him and, I believe, is in the PJ files.

PJ Files: The Tapas Group's Statements *

 

[Ardoch]

Without the child waking up ,screaming ?Unlikely . Her grandmother said she was a real screamer .

He/they may not have carried her out conscious.

 

[Dlk79]

HCW stated, that german prosecuters are convinced that CB abducted and killed MM. Possibly abused her before.

The quote from HCW was -

"My private opinion is that he relatively quickly killed the girl, possibly abused her and then killed her."
Madeleine McCann was killed soon after she was kidnapped, says German prosecutor

He doesn't mention an adbuction, only the Press made the assumption that she was killed after being kidnapped/abducted. The above quote still makes sense if she was killed in the apartment first.

 

[Anxala]

If true reporting, do i smell that CB and FF aren't pulling together anymore, like they did in the past...?

It has become quiet about FF IMO. A few weeks ago, his appearence in the media seemed much more belligerent to me.

Maddie suspect ‘won't let cell attack lie’ & ‘sues’ guards for ‘breaking ribs’

I don't recall FF ever being belligerent. Supportive of his client, yes, and defensive of his client in the face of unproven accusations and, now, possible provocative assaults, yes, but always, imo, in a reasonable and objective and professional manner.

When and where has he ever been belligerent?

The focus should remain on HCW since this is his show, not FF's. And if it were actually a 'worthy' show, there would be absolutely no need for the 'belligerent and weak FF' deflection to try and distract from it.

 

[SuperdadV8]

The quote from HCW was -

"My private opinion is that he relatively quickly killed the girl, possibly abused her and then killed her."
Madeleine McCann was killed soon after she was kidnapped, says German prosecutor

He doesn't mention an adbuction, only the Press made the assumption that she was killed after being kidnapped/abducted. The above quote still makes sense if she was killed in the apartment first.

Or if she had been handed over to CB soon after being abducted...?!

Same link:

"Madeleine McCann was possibly abused and then killed shortly after she was kidnapped, a German prosecutor says"

 

[SuperdadV8]

I don't recall FF ever being belligerent. Supportive of his client, yes, and defensive of his client in the face of unproven accusations and, now, possible provocative assaults, yes, but always, imo, in a reasonable and objective and professional manner.

When and where has he ever been belligerent?

By claiming innocence until proven guilty and (maybe!) quoting his client that he will never coorporate with the prosecuters, until holy water will be served as a longdrink in hell. And that while some parents are missing their child since 13 years.

In my personal opinion, that fits "belligerent" very well. And i also wrote, that that's JUST MY OPINION!

 

[Lilly b]

Similar thoughts from me. It makes no sense to link cadaver smell to cars that had been hired weeks later, or apartments that had been left weeks before, while every single movement of the MC's had been reported by the media 24/7 from day one.

More likely was there a contamination from a third party, either circumstantially, or even intentionally to set a wrong track! PJ should have been informed about the planned operation of the sniffer dogs very well and very early...

Could explain the "narrow mindness" of portugese officials very well. IMO.

If you watch the old panorama program, it explains all this, I watched it again the other day, well worth it, after all this time, and knowing what we know now

 

[Tekno]

The solution is IMO this. The Ukranian man MK (who was seen carrying a child by the English couple) had been driving the white Toyota Hilux pickup, which he did not own, it was owned by his Portuguese employer CALN.
MK himself owned the grey (cinzento) VW Golf.
The young portuguese couple who were additional witnesses were in a small red car (which PJ correctly did not run a trace on).

Hi Redplanet, can you please indicate who MK is? As well as CALN? Thank you.

 

[Dlk79]

Same link:

"Madeleine McCann was possibly abused and then killed shortly after she was kidnapped, a German prosecutor says"

As I pointed out in my previous post, that is not a quote from HCW. That is what the newspaper has decided to headline. Because every UK newspaper has seemingly already made the conclusion that what happened was an abduction, they make the automatic conclusion from HCW's statement that he must mean she was "killed quickly" after said "abduction". Yet HCW makes no such statement, he has yet to mention an abduction, everyone just assumes it.

Need to be careful to distinguish between actual quotes and the writer's interpretation. I pointed out another one recently regarding the comment about CB having knowledge of the crime only the supect could know. That statement was actually a complete misrepresentation of what was actually said and didn't mean anything like what was being implied. The person was effectively just saying that the evidence BKA had was being kept secret so that in essence, only they and the suspect who'd committed the crime knew the truth about it.

Or if she had been handed over to CB soon after being abducted...?!

In the context of that one quote, that theory is possible. However, it doesn't tally with other statements CB has made. Notably:

The prosecutor also rubbished reports earlier this week that German police believed the chief Madeleine McCann suspect had an accomplice, and addressed earlier accusations made on Portuguese TV Brueckner’s ’ex’ girlfriend Nicole Fehlinger was involved in an Algarve burglary he was linked to.

He said: “Naturally we investigate everyone known to us to see if they had something to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.

“This woman was the suspect’s ex-girlfriend and she is classed as a witness but we don’t have any reason to believe she is linked to this crime.

“She is not a suspect for us. We are only investigating Christian B, nobody else. At this stage we believe he acted alone in this case.”
Madeleine McCann police have 'no smoking gun' to charge Christian Brueckner

And also:

German investigators are now trying to trace the owner of the phone used to call Brueckner on the night Madeleine disappered.

Mr Wolters said: "This is of interest to us. The phone call made by the suspect could be between him and a member of staff who told him when to break into the McCanns’ apartment."
The 30-minute phone call police hope will finally solve Madeleine McCann mystery

 

[Victoria Chambers]

As I pointed out in my previous post, that is not a quote from HCW. That is what the newspaper has decided to headline. Because every UK newspaper has seemingly already made the conclusion that what happened was an abduction, they make the automatic conclusion from HCW's statement that he must mean she was "killed quickly" after said "abduction". Yet HCW makes no such statement, he has yet to mention an abduction, everyone just assumes it.

Need to be careful to distinguish between actual quotes and the writer's interpretation. I pointed out another one recently regarding the comment about CB having knowledge of the crime only the supect could know. That statement was actually a complete misrepresentation of what was actually said and didn't mean anything like what was being implied. The person was effectively just saying that the evidence BKA had was being kept secret so that in essence, only they and the suspect who'd committed the crime knew the truth about it.


In the context of that one quote, that theory is possible. However, it doesn't tally with other statements CB has made. Notably:

The prosecutor also rubbished reports earlier this week that German police believed the chief Madeleine McCann suspect had an accomplice, and addressed earlier accusations made on Portuguese TV Brueckner’s ’ex’ girlfriend Nicole Fehlinger was involved in an Algarve burglary he was linked to.

He said: “Naturally we investigate everyone known to us to see if they had something to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.

“This woman was the suspect’s ex-girlfriend and she is classed as a witness but we don’t have any reason to believe she is linked to this crime.

“She is not a suspect for us. We are only investigating Christian B, nobody else. At this stage we believe he acted alone in this case.”
Madeleine McCann police have 'no smoking gun' to charge Christian Brueckner

And also:

German investigators are now trying to trace the owner of the phone used to call Brueckner on the night Madeleine disappered.

Mr Wolters said: "This is of interest to us. The phone call made by the suspect could be between him and a member of staff who told him when to break into the McCanns’ apartment."
The 30-minute phone call police hope will finally solve Madeleine McCann mystery

I don't think people just 'assume' an abduction. Be it a burglar entered or a stranger who had other intentions, the fact that MM vanished sometime after the shutters were forced is what points to an abduction occurred. Had she just wandered off in the aftermath of a burglary, she would have been found by now. Of everything we do or do not know, I think it is clear to everybody that somebody took her. Which amounts to an abduction. X

 

[Dlk79]

Of everything we do or do not know, I think it is clear to everybody that somebody took her. Which amounts to an abduction. X

No. Not in a legal sense it doesn't, and that is the distinction. Particularly where a Prosecutor like HCW is concerned and why he may be careful to deliberately avoid using that word. You can't be tried for the crime of abduction/kidnapping for moving/hiding a dead body. So if MM was killed in the apartment, technically there is NO abduction. There is just murder. That's the difference.

 

[SuperdadV8]

No. Not in a legal sense it doesn't, and that is the distinction. Particularly where a Prosecutor like HCW is concerned and why he may be careful to deliberately avoid using that word. You can't be tried for the crime of abduction/kidnapping for moving/hiding a dead body. So if MM was killed in the apartment, technically there is NO abduction. There is just murder. That's the difference.

That's not 100% correct DLK79. In germany you can be tried for that. It's called "disturbance of the peace of the dead" (§ 168 StGB).

But of course, not comparable to the classic abduction of a minor and should have been too long ago, to get a valid charge anymore.

 

[Dlk79]

That's not 100% correct DLK79. In germany you can be tried for that. It's called "disturbance of the peace of the dead" (§ 168 StGB).

But of course, not comparable to the classic abduction of a minor and should have been too long ago, to get a valid charge anymore.

Yes, I know moving a body is a crime but as you say, that crime in Germany is called "disturbance of the peace of the dead", it's not called "abduction". My point is that the crime of abduction means something more specific in a legal context, and for that charge to be applied, the victim needs to be alive when they are taken.

 

[redplanet]

Sorry redplanet. We must be reading different statements. I cannot find any red car or Portuguese couple in the McCluskey sighting. Just the white pick up truck. A dark car with 2 men in who could speak English. And a further non English speaking blonde lady who made her way on foot. At the top of the Ukranian statement it says, Same incident, 2 vehicles. Then goes on to name the Ukranians as owning the dark one. No mention of anybody's boss or his boss vehicle. You would think the PJ would have interviewed the boss to have the story verified seeing how the man and his daughter were no longer in the country. It's all very strange IMO X

Here are all 13 pages about that sighting.
The non-English-speaking blonde lady is KZ, she is the wife of MK, they are both Ukranian, and it is their child whom RM and SM mistakenly thought might be the missing MM.
P.J. POLICE FILES: RICHARD & SUSAN MCCLUSKEY

 

[redplanet]

Hi Redplanet, can you please indicate who MK is? As well as CALN? Thank you.

P.J. POLICE FILES: RICHARD & SUSAN MCCLUSKEY

 

[redplanet]

Without the child waking up ,screaming ?Unlikely . Her grandmother said she was a real screamer .

Yes this is a strong argument against the idea that someone stole and carried through the streets an alive and conscious child.

 

[peanutJelly]

Death in the apartment theory from Nov 2007. Does anyone know anything more about the Publico reconstruction, contained in this article?

Madeleine 'was killed as she screamed at pervert prowler', police to

There’s also the in between possibility that an unconscious MM was taken from the apartment

 

[redplanet]

Not that it matters at this late stage but the 2nd account on the ripped off covers of MM's book is GM's. It's signed by him and, I believe, is in the PJ files.

PJ Files: The Tapas Group's Statements *

IMO that is not a signature. IMO probably just someone showing PJ how to spell the name???