Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[Denis R Tandib]

It’s a long, drawn-out saga, I agree. I hope that the 5 other charges come to court soon and then we may see some traction on the MM investigation.

I’m sure you know they were thrown out due to Braunschweig being the wrong jurisdiction.

I don’t see why it should have any impact on the MM case. The BKA are a national agency so will continue investigating irrespective of which prosecutors it’s ultimately handed over to.

 

[Pixie Child]

Then the premise of some that a MO is to be likened to the MM case is false.

Not necessarily. If this was a UK case, the Jury would probably not hear about previous convictions to avoid prejudice or if they did, then the Judge would issue a caution.

But in front of a Judge, it’s possible that the Prosecutor will use that argument that the Defendant has previous for burglary and SA. A Judge knows what weight to attach so it won’t be overplayed. The Prosecutor will be quite matter of fact about it - everyone knows the facts in this case.

 

[RichardKimble]

I’m sure you know they were thrown out due to Braunschweig being the wrong jurisdiction.

I don’t see why it should have any impact on the MM case. The BKA are a national agency so will continue investigating irrespective of which prosecutors it’s ultimately handed over to.

I some how think it's more than just jurisdiction, a judge or judges just didn't roll over and be cowed because CB's legal team rocked into town, what ever the decision was based on reports indicated surprise by Wolters.

 

[RichardKimble]

Not necessarily. If this was a UK case, the Jury would probably not hear about previous convictions to avoid prejudice or if they did, then the Judge would issue a caution.

But in front of a Judge, it’s possible that the Prosecutor will use that argument that the Defendant has previous for burglary and SA. A Judge knows what weight to attach so it won’t be overplayed. The Prosecutor will be quite matter of fact about it - everyone knows the facts in this case.

Then the cases won't stand alone on their own merits would they?

 

[Mex]

That's true no doubt, Dudley. And they've been successful in identifying other crimes allegedly committed by him too. Nobody doubts that. That doesn't mean they haven't possibly put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5 re: MM.

I don't think they just put 2 and 2 together. I think they collated all the evidence they had to hand regarding CB and determined he was a person of interest to begin with.

With the uncovering and introduction of more evidence into the equation theydecided he was prime suspect.

Earlier in the thread there is a quote to the effect that there is enough evidence to charge him with the murder of MM. They haven't, because they want more to make sure of conviction when it does come to trial and they are most certainly continuing their investigation to do that. If there may be more evidence to add to what they have, I'm easy with that approach.

 

[Dave55]

I some how think it's more than just jurisdiction, a judge or judges just didn't roll over and be cowed because CB's legal team rocked into town, what ever the decision was based on reports indicated surprise by Wolters.

As I understand the cases haven't been thrown out but may have to be heard in a different district

 

[Mex]

Vile perhaps but unrelated to the MM case unless you are aware of a connection?

Yes I am. Just as I am surprised you don't recognise that what I have said negates your logic but supports the logic that just because there is no record a person has has committed murder in the past means they are incapable of committing murder

 

[Pixie Child]

Then the cases won't stand alone on their own merits would they?

The facts will have to be proven in each case. Each case is unique and I don’t anticipate that they will spend much time on character & MO.

The 2 cases involving children share an MO but the beach case relies on witness ID; the playground case relies on the testimony of the child as to whether he was exposing himself.

The HB case shares a MO with the DM case but relies on HB’s identification and the partial fingerprint.

 

[Dave55]

The facts will have to be proven in each case. Each case is unique and I don’t anticipate that they will spend much time on character & MO.

The 2 cases involving children share an MO but the beach case relies on witness ID; the playground case relies on the testimony of the child as to whether he was exposing himself.

The HB case shares a MO with the DM case but relies on HB’s identification and the partial fingerprint.

It will be interesting if the other two rape cases share the same MO

 

[Lyall0814]

I don't think they just put 2 and 2 together. I think they collated all the evidence they had to hand regarding CB and determined he was a person of interest to begin with.

With the uncovering and introduction of more evidence into the equation theydecided he was prime suspect.

Earlier in the thread there is a quote to the effect that there is enough evidence to charge him with the murder of MM. They haven't, because they want more to make sure of conviction when it does come to trial and they are most certainly continuing their investigation to do that. If there may be more evidence to add to what they have, I'm easy with that approach.

You're just repeating what HCW has said. We've no idea if what he says now and then is actually what's going on privately. You hope it is but it may not be.

 

[Mex]

I think it’s speculative reporting in most circumstances.

The situations where the prosecutors have stated/leaked connections, I think are done to develop the “CB is the culprit” narrative.

I think it’s speculative reporting in most circumstances.

The situations where the prosecutors have stated/leaked connections, I think are done to develop the “CB is the culprit” narrative.

I think the best approach is not to rely on impressions from media sources. All need to be taken with a pinch of salt as they are no better informed than you or I. Indeed in some instances we probably have a more in depth knowledge than they do.

 

[Mex]

The argument you put forward was that the police don't determine guilt, so In saying they are 100% sure in the press what are they determining then?

They are determining that he is a child murder suspect.

It would be a bit mis informative of them not to indicate to the general public the offence of which HB is suspected.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

All we can do at this stage is speculate that that is (or isn’t) the case, a quite pointless way of passing the time IMO.

It really is when you think about it! I think most of the work has been accomplished; we are now waiting for the turn of events to play out.

 

[Mex]

Maybe but if you can't stop thinking about the case anyway you may as well be posting about it? Irrespective of what some posters here say the case is as big a mystery now as it was in Week 1.

(arguing and losing tempers over it is pointless imo I'd agree with you there)

My opinion is that the case has progressed steadily once SY officially opened their case and PJ reopened theirs in 2013.

We became aware of some of what was by then going on in leaps and bounds in 2020 or thereabouts.

There are always those who think the glass is half empty instead of half full. There is now a very active investigation happening much of it under the radar, in a case many had determined there was nothing left to investigate in 2008.
Quite obviously they were in error then and since then too.

 

[Mex]

Maybe they did ask the court in 2022 and they were told you don't have enough? It's not impossible is it.

Don't think so. The cases were ready for court.
My opinion

 

[Lyall0814]

Don't think so. The cases were ready for court.
My opinion

I mean the MM investigation. Of course you're right about the others.

 

[Mex]

It’s a long, drawn-out saga, I agree. I hope that the 5 other charges come to court soon and then we may see some traction on the MM investigation.

I'm sure that will happen once the court log jam is resolved. In the intervening period it allows time to tie things up in the MM case
My regret on that is the added distress which must be endured by the survivors of these heinous crimes, some ready to be heard and one still in preparation.

 

[Mex]

You're just repeating what HCW has said. We've no idea if what he says now and then is actually what's going on privately. You hope it is but it may not be.

They've got all they need or we would have heard from them. SY have reiterated there will be no running commentary and I think that is a process shared by BKA (and the current PJ team)
My opinion

 

[Pixie Child]

It will be interesting if the other two rape cases share the same MO

I must admit I’m confused by the other 2. Perhaps the 2 ladies in the missing film have come forward; or they are including them simply to prove shared MO (torture & filming) with the DM & HB cases.

 

[Mex]

I’m sure you know they were thrown out due to Braunschweig being the wrong jurisdiction.

I don’t see why it should have any impact on the MM case. The BKA are a national agency so will continue investigating irrespective of which prosecutors it’s ultimately handed over to.

The jurisdiction hasn't yet been decided.