Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #37

[frank-cole]

Well I hope you're right, and I hope the trial or trials are conducted transparently so we can see that you were right.

But imagine if these trials were taking place in Moscow or Beijing. Folks being convicted on the evidence of informants saying they saw videos that no longer exist. We in the 'democracies' would be chattering about show trials wouldn't we?

Transparency is important, or people will be concerned about methods being used. Unfortunately the German justice system doesn't seem to be awfully keen on transparency.

Personally I don’t think the public have the right to the transparency you speak of. The only invested interest many have is that the accused is the sole prime suspect in the MM case. Nobody would be interested in transparency it this wasn’t CB & it happened in Beijing, Russia or an even far more liberal country. That said, I do think that many of the facts will emerge and go public.

Although at times it seems like a crime fighting soap opera I tend not to expect the ending will be akin to that of which we’re familiar with seeing in fiction. In soap opera’s we invest time & they’re designed to tell the story & give the answers, I don’t necessarily think real life scenarios would be the same.

I don’t believe anybody commenting has an iota of the experience, capability & grasp of the law that German judges have. That’s why their decisions will be far more credible & evidence based, than anybody with a motive to downplay or exaggerate the significance of those decisions.

Just a side thought, do you accept that CB is guilty of the crime he’s been convicted of? (DM’s rape). I just want to grasp whether your reasoning is based on anything related to CB that might happen in the future or whether it also spans to things in CB’s past too.

Thank you

Well I hope you're right, and I hope the trial or trials are conducted transparently so we can see that you were right.

But imagine if these trials were taking place in Moscow or Beijing. Folks being convicted on the evidence of informants saying they saw videos that no longer exist. We in the 'democracies' would be chattering about show trials wouldn't we?

Transparency is important, or people will be concerned about methods being used. Unfortunately the German justice system doesn't seem to be awfully keen on transparency.

 

[Lyall0814]

Although at times it seems like a crime fighting soap opera I tend not to expect the ending will be akin to that of which we’re familiar with seeing in fiction. In soap opera’s we invest time & they’re designed to tell the story & give the answers, I don’t necessarily think real life scenarios would be the same.

I don’t believe anybody commenting has an iota of the experience, capability & grasp of the law that German judges have. That’s why their decisions will be far more credible & evidence based, than anybody with a motive to downplay or exaggerate the significance of those decisions.

Just a side thought, do you accept that CB is guilty of the crime he’s been convicted of? (DM’s rape). I just want to grasp whether your reasoning is based on anything related to CB that might happen in the future or whether it also spans to things in CB’s past too.

Thank you

You don't think the public have the right to transparency in the justice system? I can't believe you really mean that.

None of us knows if he was guilty of the rape he's serving the sentence for. We can only say if we think the conviction was fair based on the evidence presented. I think it probably was.

But we're here primarily to discuss the MM case. Imagine if the German authorities tried to include evidence in a MM-related trial from a couple of folks who say they saw a video which no longer exists, and that video showed Madeleine. Would you be happy with that?

 

[Tekno]

I would think a criminal record would preclude that. Why do you ask?

Just out of interest. I’m wondering if there’s some sort of connection between CB and the PJ.

 

[Mex]

There were people posting, not you, what HB was actually convicted for, that it wasn’t much of a crime. He was given a seven year custodial sentence for people smuggling - taking advantage of poor people who had fled their home country.

Please provide the quote that explicitly or implicitly stated what he did was a bad reflection on the police. My point is that it should reflect badly on him, it seems obvious he was stealing items from CB which he could sell or used to commit other crimes.

I think there is a question mark over his truthfulness. I wouldn’t want him as prosecution witness and FF is clearly intimating that he will give him a very hard time if the prosecutors are relying on him as a key witness.

HB was a career criminal. On occasion even criminals tell the truth. If the account of events is backed up by police files which repeat verbatim the circumstances described, logic dictates his account of what he saw is true. Particularly if he had no other way of knowing the matching sequence of events as recorded on record in confidential police files.

 

[Pixie Child]

Busching took the Dino lock tool kit & gave it to police (German police presumably) (when CB was in prison).

He claims that the Defence has pressed him to withdraw his allegations.

He has been in witness protection.

There is another witness to the confession. Who is this? MS? MT?

Madeline McCann prime suspect 'had lock pick kit', witness says

Christian Brueckner bragged about the burglary toolkit which he would use to 'break into holiday resorts, hotels and holiday homes to steal from tourists', his former friend has claimed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Just out of interest. I’m wondering if there’s some sort of connection between CB and the PJ.

I know RM was a police interpreter but I don’t know about CB. Given his profession I doubt it but if the PJ are as crooked as some say, he could have been.

 

[Pixie Child]

Just out of interest. I’m wondering if there’s some sort of connection between CB and the PJ.

I believe JC said CB was an informant for the PJ.

 

[Lyall0814]

Just out of interest. I’m wondering if there’s some sort of connection between CB and the PJ.

If there was the journalistic legend that is Nick Pisa would have found it by now.

 

[Lyall0814]

I believe JC said CB was an informant for the PJ.

Of course he did.

 

[Lilly b]

It’s a good response.

The only counter I have then is why was she unable to identify the scar/mark? It was light enough to film and identify eye colour and she had four hours to analyse her attacker.

I’ll listen to the interview, I knew that she had spoken out beforehand but have not listened to it before.

I think with what was going on, she would just of had a glimpse of it, and without being able to touch it, or ask him, maybe she trying to look for something distinguishing, but she was only a young woman, who I imagine wouldn't in a million years think this could happen to her.
where as she probably couldn't of not made eye contact with him, and she gave what description she could, and that matches CB without a shadow of doubt as far as I'm concerned

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I believe JC said CB was an informant for the PJ.

Do you know what he informed on?

 

[frank-cole]

You don't think the public have the right to transparency in the justice system? I can't believe you really mean that.

None of us knows if he was guilty of the rape he's serving the sentence for. We can only say if we think the conviction was fair based on the evidence presented. I think it probably was.

But we're here primarily to discuss the MM case. Imagine if the German authorities tried to include evidence in a MM-related trial from a couple of folks who say they saw a video which no longer exists, and that video showed Madeleine. Would you be happy with that?

I don’t think the same level of transparency would be expected by people if this wasn’t CB & if he wasn’t the sole prime suspect in the MM case. I do think a lot of the facts will emerge but I don’t know if we’ll be privy to all of the evidence & all of the trial details. I don’t necessarily think that a casual observer should have the right to all of the details but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

I accept & agree with the verdict in the DM case. I’d come to the exact same conclusion if this wasn’t CB or if it was any other case. As I said, I think German judges & lay judges are far better at assessing & judging facts than any of us. They also have the benefit of all of information, we don’t.
IMO, regarding you, i & others that use these threads , I think that the expectation of what is deemed credible evidence (in any of CB’s cases) is either a whole lot higher or slightly lower, dependant on one’s theory in the MM case. That also factors into how people do or don’t take things into context or how they do or don’t acknowledge the successes of the BKA. JMO

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I think with what was going on, she would just of had a glimpse of it, and without being able to touch it, or ask him, maybe she trying to look for something distinguishing, but she was only a young woman, who I imagine wouldn't in a million years think this could happen to her.
where as she probably couldn't of not made eye contact with him, and she gave what description she could, and that matches CB without a shadow of doubt as far as I'm concerned

If they have the partial palm print then he will be convicted for sure but I’m not sure they do. FF is obviously trying to cast doubt on the DM conviction to assist the defence in the HB trial if it gets to court - without the print, the statements of HB and MS are obviously very important.

 

[Lilly b]

Busching took the Dino lock tool kit & gave it to police (German police presumably) (when CB was in prison).

He claims that the Defence has pressed him to withdraw his allegations.

He has been in witness protection.

There is another witness to the confession. Who is this? MS? MT?

Madeline McCann prime suspect 'had lock pick kit', witness says

Christian Brueckner bragged about the burglary toolkit which he would use to 'break into holiday resorts, hotels and holiday homes to steal from tourists', his former friend has claimed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think mt is staying quiet, as in he has said what he has to say, even his FB , there are comments like I wasn't allowed to speak etc etc. Where hb is now saying it's sort of ruined his life in the interview, and that he wished he never new, so damned if he says something and damned if he doesn't.
The appeal was for people to come forward with info, which ms hb and mt have, and they may have a checkered past, so have many people, and I'm sure there are many witnesses in many cases all over the world, that does not mean they aren't telling the truth, and they have come clean on their past behaviors
But this is a serious case of a missing child, and I'm glad these witnesses have come forward

 

[Lyall0814]

I don’t think the same level of transparency would be expected by people if this wasn’t CB & if he wasn’t the sole prime suspect in the MM case. I do think a lot of the facts will emerge but I don’t know if we’ll be privy to all of the evidence & all of the trial details. I don’t necessarily think that a casual observer should have the right to all of the details but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

I accept & agree with the verdict in the DM case. I’d come to the exact same conclusion if this wasn’t CB or if it was any other case. As I said, I think German judges & lay judges are far better at assessing & judging facts than any of us. They also have the benefit of all of information, we don’t.
IMO, regarding you, i & others that use these threads , I think that the expectation of what is deemed credible evidence (in any of CB’s cases) is either a whole lot higher or slightly lower, dependant on one’s theory in the MM case. That also factors into how people do or don’t take things into context or how they do or don’t acknowledge the successes of the BKA. JMO

"He's the sole prime suspect so far" - Homer Simpson.

You seem to be one step short of dispensing with trials altogether and just letting our wise and just and infallible judges decide cases, Frank.

"I don’t know if we’ll be privy to all of the evidence & all of the trial details"

 

[frank-cole]

HB was a career criminal. On occasion even criminals tell the truth. If the account of events is backed up by police files which repeat verbatim the circumstances described, logic dictates his account of what he saw is true. Particularly if he had no other way of knowing the matching sequence of events as recorded on record in confidential police files.

I’m no profiler, but IMO the LEA’s may have assumed the key piece of information would more likely be known by a criminal than it would virtuous citizen.
In some respects it probably makes HB more credible rather than less.

They must have been able to corroborate or link his testimony in some way, relatively quickly. 10000+ leads & tips, as well as 100’s of local sex offenders & this 1 tip was a catalyst that led to a murder investigation. IMO there can only be 1 reason this is different to the 1000’s of others - evidence!

 

[frank-cole]

"He's the sole prime suspect so far" - Homer Simpson.

You seem to be one step short of dispensing with trials altogether and just letting our wise and just and infallible judges decide cases, Frank.

"I don’t know if we’ll be privy to all of the evidence & all of the trial details"

I continue to think we may not be privy to all of the details, nor do I think we have any stake in how information will or should be shared. I still think we’ll find out a lot of the facts though.

In the absence of a jury & the lure of double jeopardy, I do think it’s obvious that German prosecutors & German judges assess evidence diligently & do so on the basis of all of the facts.

I think if we took ‘CB’ & ‘MM case’ out of the equation standards would lower & conclusions or assumptions would change.

Just out of interest. Do you accept the verdict in the Cipriano case?

 

[Tekno]

I believe JC said CB was an informant for the PJ.

Thanks Pixie. I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I think mt is staying quiet, as in he has said what he has to say, even his FB , there are comments like I wasn't allowed to speak etc etc. Where hb is now saying it's sort of ruined his life in the interview, and that he wished he never new, so damned if he says something and damned if he doesn't.
The appeal was for people to come forward with info, which ms hb and mt have, and they may have a checkered past, so have many people, and I'm sure there are many witnesses in many cases all over the world, that does not mean they aren't telling the truth, and they have come clean on their past behaviors
But this is a serious case of a missing child, and I'm glad these witnesses have come forward

All three were identified before the appeal.

 

[Anxala]

Busching took the Dino lock tool kit & gave it to police (German police presumably) (when CB was in prison).

He claims that the Defence has pressed him to withdraw his allegations.

He has been in witness protection.

There is another witness to the confession. Who is this? MS? MT?

Madeline McCann prime suspect 'had lock pick kit', witness says

Christian Brueckner bragged about the burglary toolkit which he would use to 'break into holiday resorts, hotels and holiday homes to steal from tourists', his former friend has claimed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

There's a lot of nonsense in that link. Not that I believe an abduction took place but, let's pretend I do for the sake of argument: First, no one would need a lock pic for an apartment where access was readily available though unlocked patio doors. Since CB is an alleged master burglar, I think we can be quite confident that rather than fiddling about at the front door with a lock pick, he would have chosen to enter through a door that required nothing more than opening. Second, the idea that this alleged abductor used paint solvent to sedate MM is ludicrous! Paint solvent has a very strong, distinctive and lingering smell. If such a method was used, the smell would have been noted and reported. It wasn't.

It's comical, the idea that the BKA is electrified by either of the above 'revelations'.

Sources indeed.