Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[Lyall0814]

Can you mention any murder case in the last 25 years where a conviction has been obtained without any forensics, physical evidence or the body?

Sweden was mad keen on them for a while (mostly in the bizarre story of Sture Bergwall/Thomas Quick)

 

[Dave55]

The article makes it clear that JS and FF feel that HCW’s media strategy is severely at odds with the progress of the case.

Several people following the case and contributing to the forum, myself included feel the same and I don’t think the article has changed anyone’s opinion.

He doesn’t have a conviction for the images at the box factory. The offence you mention relates to the abuse and photographs of his girlfriends daughter in 2012. He was found guilty later, in 2017, I think.

I think it's significant he has not been charged with the images from the box factory
Why not?

 

[Mex]

It only remains to be seen if there is a continuous unbroken chain or a series of discontented links.
For example, is there a provable physical link between MM and CB ?

I am no expert but it seems logical to me that the chain of evidence is not sequential but follows an opportunistic path. One element might be added which relates to a provable date. Another might arise through a chance event or reference to a situation many years between.

They may be linked or one might cancel out the relevance of the other dictating a change in direction.

Such a situation may have arisen around 4th May 2022 when a definite alteration could be noted in information and emphasis released to MSN.

Snip
The German prosecutor investigating MM’s disappearance has claimed there is “new evidence” linking prime suspect CB to the crime.

‘New evidence’ linking suspect to Madeleine McCann disappearance

The German prosecutor investigating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance has claimed there is “new evidence” linking prime suspect Christian Brueckner to the crime.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Mex]

I think it's significant he has not been charged with the images from the box factory
Why not?

I think that fact may be hugely significant.

 

[Lilly b]

I think that fact may be hugely significant.

He was charged over some of the pictures

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ured-abandoned-factory-stored-child-🤬🤬🤬🤬.html

 

[Mex]

He was charged over some of the pictures

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ctory-stored-child-*advertiser censored*.html

Hi Lily
The link I have followed says he was charged on evidence found in his camera and computer following a domestic abuse incident.
Snip
He was accused of assaulting the woman he lived with, N M, who was not the mother of his victim.
During a raid on his flat, police seized a laptop and other devices on which they found the photographs.

Christian Brueckner was jailed for abusing ex-girlfriend's daughter

The prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was jailed for sexually abusing the five-year-old daughter of a former girlfriend, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Consider Dudley]

^ What I believe has no bearing on anything. We're discussing what evidence we think HCW has that leads him to the conclusion that CB abducted and murdered MM. HCW clearly has evidence. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is whether the evidence he has is strong enough to charge CB. Three years and counting down the line, it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that it isn't.

As far as I know no one, not even HCW is disputing that. i think where we disagree is on whether or not a single photo of MM post disappearance constitutes irrefutable evidence of abduction and/or murder.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Agreed.

It would be a strong case. Sure the defence could argue he downloaded it from the internet but that is hardly believable IMO

Just noting that the hair is actually circumstantial eveidence as well.

I’m not being facetious here but a strong case for what - a murder charge? Do you think the evidence so far gathered in the public domain is almost strong enough to charge but a photo of Madeleine taken post disappearance is strong enough to tip it over into a successful conviction for murder or even abduction? Unless it can be proven that CB actually took the photo I doubt a court would find him guilty of abduction much less murder, although it would be logical to assume both were likely.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Can I ask those who doubt CB is involved in Madeleine’s disappearance- if HCW were to hold a press conference on Monday revealing that the evidence that convinces them that CB murdered Madeleine is the discovery of a photo of her taken post disappearance would that convince you he did it too?

 

[Davieson]

I am no expert but it seems logical to me that the chain of evidence is not sequential but follows an opportunistic path. One element might be added which relates to a provable date. Another might arise through a chance event or reference to a situation many years between.

They may be linked or one might cancel out the relevance of the other dictating a change in direction.

Such a situation may have arisen around 4th May 2022 when a definite alteration could be noted in information and emphasis released to MSN.

Snip
The German prosecutor investigating MM’s disappearance has claimed there is “new evidence” linking prime suspect CB to the crime.

‘New evidence’ linking suspect to Madeleine McCann disappearance

The German prosecutor investigating Madeleine McCann’s disappearance has claimed there is “new evidence” linking prime suspect Christian Brueckner to the crime.

www.standard.co.uk

18 months ago though, so unlikely to be the break they were looking for. IMO

 

[Lilly b]

Hi Lily
The link I have followed says he was charged on evidence found in his camera and computer following a domestic abuse incident.
Snip
He was accused of assaulting the woman he lived with, N M, who was not the mother of his victim.
During a raid on his flat, police seized a laptop and other devices on which they found the photographs.

Christian Brueckner was jailed for abusing ex-girlfriend's daughter

The prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was jailed for sexually abusing the five-year-old daughter of a former girlfriend, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Christian Brueckner's lawyer denies he's charged over Madeleine McCann

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner has been made an 'official suspect' in the case, by Portuguese prosecutors, it has been reported, but no charges have been brought.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He was charged in 2016, pictures was found at the box factory, when looking for IG
This may not have all the details, but I've not got time to look further

 

[Davieson]

Can I ask those who doubt CB is involved in Madeleine’s disappearance- if HCW were to hold a press conference on Monday revealing that the evidence that convinces them that CB murdered Madeleine is the discovery of a photo of her taken post disappearance would that convince you he did it too?

I'll be more convinced when he has actually laid charges against CB for the murder of MM and had them accepted by a judge to go to trial
Until then it's just all talk.

 

[RichardKimble]

I think it's significant he has not been charged with the images from the box factory
Why not?

Why? it was 2015 that the search of the box factory occured, CB name only came up 2 yrs later by his bestest mate having a conscience in regards to MM.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I'll be more convinced when he has actually laid charges against CB for the murder of MM and had them accepted by a judge to go to trial
Until then it's just all talk.

So that’s a no then.

 

[Anxala]

Can I ask those who doubt CB is involved in Madeleine’s disappearance- if HCW were to hold a press conference on Monday revealing that the evidence that convinces them that CB murdered Madeleine is the discovery of a photo of her taken post disappearance would that convince you he did it too?

<modsnip - personalizing>

No one is saying that an image of MM post-disappearance would suffice as irrefutable proof that CB murdered MM. OK?

What we're saying is that if such an image (or images) existed, then the combination of that image/s alongside the existing evidence against CB that HCW says he has, would likely be a game changer in terms of moving the case forward towards a charge.

That CB could subsequently deny any ownership of the imagery, could say he downloaded it from wherever, could say 'nothing to do with me, Guv', is not the point. The point is that the prime suspect in possession of imagery of MM post-disappearance would be a very significant 'get' for the prosecution.

 

[RichardKimble]

You seem to be missing fairly crucial and logical points here. Let me try to untangle this:

No one is saying that an image of MM post-disappearance would suffice as irrefutable proof that CB murdered MM. OK?

What we're saying is that if such an image (or images) existed, then the combination of that image/s alongside the existing evidence against CB that HCW says he has, would likely be a game changer in terms of moving the case forward towards a charge.

That CB could subsequently deny any ownership of the imagery, could say he downloaded it from wherever, could say 'nothing to do with me, Guv', is not the point. The point is that the prime suspect in possession of imagery of MM post-disappearance would be a very significant 'get' for the prosecution.

The fact that no charges have happened suggests that photographic evidence doesn't exist imo.

 

[Consider Dudley]

<modsnip - personalizing>

No one is saying that an image of MM post-disappearance would suffice as irrefutable proof that CB murdered MM. OK?

What we're saying is that if such an image (or images) existed, then the combination of that image/s alongside the existing evidence against CB that HCW says he has, would likely be a game changer in terms of moving the case forward towards a charge.

That CB could subsequently deny any ownership of the imagery, could say he downloaded it from wherever, could say 'nothing to do with me, Guv', is not the point. The point is that the prime suspect in possession of imagery of MM post-disappearance would be a very significant 'get' for the prosecution.

<modsnip - quoted post was snipped> Maybe you didn’t read my previous post in which I wrote
“Do you think the evidence so far gathered in the public domain is almost strong enough to charge but a photo of Madeleine taken post disappearance is strong enough to tip it over into a successful conviction for murder or even abduction? Unless it can be proven that CB actually took the photo I doubt a court would find him guilty of abduction much less murder, although it would be logical to assume both were likely.”
<modsnip>

 

[Consider Dudley]

The fact that no charges have happened suggests that photographic evidence doesn't exist imo.

What would such a photo prove - murder? Abduction? disposal of a body? possession of an indecent image? witholding evidence? The latter two maybe, but I think making charges stick for the other three would be less certain.

 

[Consider Dudley]

IMO it is illogical to conclude that HCW does not hold a piece of evidence such as a photo of Madeleine post disappearance simply because no charges have yet been brought.

 

[Davieson]

So that’s a no then.

If you like. As far as I'm concerned actions speak louder than words