Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #39

[Consider Dudley]

so then the article was just total speculation really

not totally, it would seem as FF concurs that CB‘s 5 other cases will be going to trial in the first quarter of next year.

 

[UK Girl]

not totally, it would seem as FF concurs that CB‘s 5 other cases will be going to trial in the first quarter of next year.

but he seems to have a different idea totally to when MM will proceed

 

[Anxala]

So not even official, just a hack's opinion of what might happen.

so then the article was just total speculation really

Well he claims the info came from a BKA investigator (who didn't care to be named! Why not if it's factual info? Why so shy!) but I'll take FF's take on things (as per the Bild article) any day over some alleged anonymous source in some new 'exclusive' from the Olive Press. Apart from anything else, what FF is saying pretty much ties in with what HCW himself is saying, that a charge on the MM front is not currently on the horizon.

JC has long form for this. Not JMO, an actual fact. How many times have we read exclusives from him that turn out to have little to no basis in fact. I do think he gets bits and bobs from HCW though, when things are looking a bit lean and shaky on the CB/MM front.

JMO of course.

 

[Consider Dudley]

but he seems to have a different idea totally to when MM will proceed

yes he does but I’m pointing out that the main thrust of the article appears to be reporting valid information about the start of the other trials.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Well he claims the info came from a BKA investigator (who didn't care to be named! Why not if it's factual info?) but I'll take FF's take on things (as per the Bild article) any day over some alleged anonymous source in some new 'exclusive' from the Olive Press.

JC has long form for this. Not JMO, an actual fact. How many times have we read exclusives from him that turn out to have little to no basis in fact. I do think he gets bits and bobs from HCW though, when things are looking a bit lean on the CB/MM front.

JMO of course.

BKA investigators probably shouldn’t be leaking stuff to journos so that might be one reason.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

BKA investigators probably shouldn’t be leaking stuff to journos so that might be one reason.

It’s been said on this forum many times that the German investigators are far too professional to leak info. Yet since the appeal, there has been a great deal of unofficial reporting in the media. The comparison with OG is quite remarkable.

 

[Consider Dudley]

It’s been said on this forum many times that the German investigators are far too professional to leak info. Yet since the appeal, there has been a great deal of unofficial reporting in the media. The comparison with OG is quite remarkable.

I’ve never made any comment about the BKA being too professional to leak. That said, imo most of the information we know about the current investigation has come from HCW himself and media interviews with Bruckner’s erstwhile acquaintances.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I’ve never made any comment about the BKA being too professional to leak. That said, imo most of the information we know about the current investigation has come from HCW himself and media interviews with Bruckner’s erstwhile acquaintances.

I didn’t say you did.

 

[Mex]

• German authorities have indicated the McCann trial will follow the case

By ROB HYDE IN BREMEN

PUBLISHED: 09:38, 17 October 2023 | UPDATED: 09:44, 17 October 2023

Speaking to Germany's Bild newspaper, FF, CB's lawyer, however, said he does not think the case will be heard next February:

'Due to other, priority proceedings in court and the defence, I do not expect the trial to begin before March.

'Proceedings in which pre-trial detention is carried out must be processed before proceedings in which the detention takes place on a basis other than a pretrial detention order.'

Madeline McCann suspect 'could face trial over other offences by Feb'

Authorities have indicated the long-awaited Madeleine McCann trial will follow closely on the heels of this case, according to police sources.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So having successfully delayed due process on behalf of their client by use of "procedural tricks", it appears that CB's legal teams may intend to try further delaying tactics.

This time round it looks as though it will centre on pre-trial detention and the felon's present incarceration for equally heinous crimes.

 

[JB1510]

I expect the prosecution file to be submitted straight after the verdict/sentence is passed for the long awaited 5 current charges, which if is the case would explain the possible timeline reported by the OP.If CB receives a custodial sentence of more than say 10 physical years I think the prosecution will file their evidence ,any less and they may hold out for more information. With the Amazon & Netflix documentaries forthcoming it may also yield more information as it did previously with MT.

 

[Mex]

I expect the prosecution file to be submitted straight after the verdict/sentence is passed for the long awaited 5 current charges, which if is the case would explain the possible timeline reported by the OP.If CB receives a custodial sentence of more than say 10 physical years I think the prosecution will file their evidence any less and they may hold out for more information. With the Amazon & Netflix documentaries forthcoming it may also yield more information as it did previously with MT.

I agree the prosecution are up for it and the sooner the better. But I'm not holding my breath.

Who would have envisaged the jurisdiction delays? And I think there may be more procedural issues to follow from a defence which really doesn't have much else going for it but delay tactics.

Without taking MM's situation into consideration, a custodial sentence handed down in the next tranche of trials may have very serious sentencing consequences indeed for CB.

 

[Davieson]

In UK, sentences often run concurrently, rather than consecutively. Does the same apply in Germany ?

 

[mrjitty]

Well he claims the info came from a BKA investigator (who didn't care to be named! Why not if it's factual info? Why so shy!) but I'll take FF's take on things (as per the Bild article) any day over some alleged anonymous source in some new 'exclusive' from the Olive Press. Apart from anything else, what FF is saying pretty much ties in with what HCW himself is saying, that a charge on the MM front is not currently on the horizon.

JC has long form for this. Not JMO, an actual fact. How many times have we read exclusives from him that turn out to have little to no basis in fact. I do think he gets bits and bobs from HCW though, when things are looking a bit lean and shaky on the CB/MM front.

JMO of course.

In the end if a prosecutorial decision has been made we’ll see the case move

If not I doubt the prosecutor is briefing rando foreign journalists on future Intentions about a decision not yet made.

I could maybe believe those around the investigation might give a temperature check in off the record briefings but the value of that stuff is zero IMO

I also don’t really see the value of trying to predict whether a charging decision will or won’t be made.

02c

 

[Anxala]

In the end if a prosecutorial decision has been made we’ll see the case move

If not I doubt the prosecutor is briefing rando foreign journalists on future Intentions about a decision not yet made.

I could maybe believe those around the investigation might give a temperature check in off the record briefings but the value of that stuff is zero IMO

I also don’t really see the value of trying to predict whether a charging decision will or won’t be made.

02c

^ It actually has really negative value imo. No wonder those of us who're sceptical remain sceptical.

All this 'it's finally happening!' (how many times over the last 3 years have we heard this?) reporting, with nothing subsequently to show for it, just compounds the suspicion that the idea of a charge being round the corner, in the absence of an actual charge being round the corner, is the only 'keep the faith' message that can be delivered. Why do this? All it does is generate even more scepticism that a charge will ever happen.

I'm honestly not sure where and how I think HCW fits in with the likes of the Olive Press. Bottom line, we know he over-engages with tabloids to his detriment.

 

[Mex]

^ It actually has really negative value imo. No wonder those of us who're sceptical remain sceptical.

All this 'it's finally happening!' (how many times over the last 3 years have we heard this?) reporting, with nothing subsequently to show for it, just compounds the suspicion that the idea of a charge being round the corner, in the absence of an actual charge being round the corner, is the only 'keep the faith' message that can be delivered. Why do this? All it does is generate even more scepticism that a charge will ever happen.

I'm honestly not sure where and how I think HCW fits in with the likes of the Olive Press. Bottom line, we know he over-engages with tabloids to his detriment.

The issue isn’t about scepticism. It is far more serious than.

It is about abduction resulting in child murder.

There has been an intensive police investigation in progress for many years culminating in suspicion falling on CB who is a convicted paedophile and rapist presently indicted for five more unrelated crimes but for CB being the alleged perpetrator.

HCW is the lead in investigating these crimes as well as the crimes against MM. I am just as puzzled as I was in post #897 why he has become the bad guy.

Snip #897
What I find particularly ironic is the fact that any censure there is regarding this unimaginable breakthrough of events is falling on the head of the senior prosecutor. And could only happen for advances made in a missing child case when that child is MM.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

Being the face of the investigation into a missing child is no easy task; particularly if that child happens to be MM against whom all the odds were stacked against solving her case and what had happened to her all those years ago.

Hers is a cause celebre which the luck of the draw gave the only realistic opportunity of solving to the BKA and the Braunschweig prosecutors. MM’s is a tripartite investigation in which law enforcement officers have reached the consensus that CB has a case to answer.
(actually, five cases to answer before MM's, but that is for discussion on another thread).

So in reality HCW is a small but visible cog who happens to be the chief prosecutor in a very large international wheel rolling inexorably towards a trial date for the crimes against MM.

Snip
Speaking on Wednesday, HCW, a spokesperson for the Braunschweig state prosecution, which is leading the investigation, told the German broadcaster NDR that CB was not helping them in the search.

He said: “We have indications that we could find evidence there. What precisely that is, I actually don’t want to say.
From where these clues come from I also don’t want to say.
The only thing that I would like to clarify is, that this does not come from the accused himself.

“That’s to say we have no confession or similar [from him]. And it’s also unfortunately not the case that it’s a tip from the accused as to where it would make more sense for us to search. Rather there are other clues which have prompted us to carry out this search operation. More than that I cannot say right now.”

Madeleine McCann: Portugal search to extend into third day, say sources

Operation on banks of reservoir 30 miles from where Madeleine went missing in 2007 had been due to end on Wednesday

www.theguardian.com

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Being the face of the investigation into a missing child is no easy task; particularly if that child happens to be MM against whom all the odds were stacked against solving her case and what had happened to her all those years ago.

Hers is a cause celebre which the luck of the draw gave the only realistic opportunity of solving to the BKA and the Braunschweig prosecutors. MM’s is a tripartite investigation in which law enforcement officers have reached the consensus that CB has a case to answer.
(actually, five cases to answer before MM's, but that is for discussion on another thread).

So in reality HCW is a small but visible cog who happens to be the chief prosecutor in a very large international wheel rolling inexorably towards a trial date for the crimes against MM.

Snip
Speaking on Wednesday, HCW, a spokesperson for the Braunschweig state prosecution, which is leading the investigation, told the German broadcaster NDR that CB was not helping them in the search.

He said: “We have indications that we could find evidence there. What precisely that is, I actually don’t want to say.
From where these clues come from I also don’t want to say.
The only thing that I would like to clarify is, that this does not come from the accused himself.

“That’s to say we have no confession or similar [from him]. And it’s also unfortunately not the case that it’s a tip from the accused as to where it would make more sense for us to search. Rather there are other clues which have prompted us to carry out this search operation. More than that I cannot say right now.”

Madeleine McCann: Portugal search to extend into third day, say sources

Operation on banks of reservoir 30 miles from where Madeleine went missing in 2007 had been due to end on Wednesday

www.theguardian.com

...it’s also unfortunately not the case that it’s a tip from the accused as...

As I already shared here, IMO BKA also knows that, now, after all these years, after the disappointment of the "innocuous" 2020 appeal, it will be almost impossible without his confession. Perhaps the last attempt is to try to add the weight of eventual convictions in other cases.
The frustration of having, probably, "strong" evidence but not sufficent to charge beyond a reasonable doubt. The double frustration of knowing that he knows they know but they are "dependent" on him.

 

[Davieson]

...it’s also unfortunately not the case that it’s a tip from the accused as...

As I already shared here, IMO BKA also knows that, now, after all these years, after the disappointment of the "innocuous" 2020 appeal, it will be almost impossible without his confession. Perhaps the last attempt is to try to add the weight of eventual convictions in other cases.
The frustration of having, probably, "strong" evidence but not sufficent to charge beyond a reasonable doubt. The double frustration of knowing that he knows they know but they are "dependent" on him.

I would say that if there is not sufficient evidence to charge, then whatever evidence they have is not strong.

I would suggest that what the prosecutors have is a disparate collection of snippets of information (evidence) which they have attempted to assemble into a compelling narrative of guilt.
While this may work well within the media, it is woefully inadequate to put before a judge and they realise that.

IMO

 

[Woodburnbay]

The issue isn’t about scepticism. It is far more serious than.

It is about abduction resulting in child murder.

There has been an intensive police investigation in progress for many years culminating in suspicion falling on CB who is a convicted paedophile and rapist presently indicted for five more unrelated crimes but for CB being the alleged perpetrator.

HCW is the lead in investigating these crimes as well as the crimes against MM. I am just as puzzled as I was in post #897 why he has become the bad guy.

Snip #897
What I find particularly ironic is the fact that any censure there is regarding this unimaginable breakthrough of events is falling on the head of the senior prosecutor. And could only happen for advances made in a missing child case when that child is MM.
My opinion

This case worries me.
There are too many inconsistencies with the original reporting of what actually happened on the night of MM missing.
To much trying to silence or get on side the media and now what does appear to be a "Patsy" who is put in the frame to focus all media attention on one man, simply because he has a track record.

Have the British media been served with D notices? Does anyone know.

This is almost the same as the Claudia Lawrence case where Christopher Halliwell is constantly being named as the culprit because he had abducted 2 women before. He is not but those wanting to escape the heat buy into this story.

My concern is that even if he does go to trial for MM and is sentenced for this, we will have the wrong man and the true culrprit(s) will go Scott free.

 

[Davieson]

This case worries me.
There are too many inconsistencies with the original reporting of what actually happened on the night of MM missing.
To much trying to silence or get on side the media and now what does appear to be a "Patsy" who is put in the frame to focus all media attention on one man, simply because he has a track record.

Have the British media been served with D notices? Does anyone know.

This is almost the same as the Claudia Lawrence case where Christopher Halliwell is constantly being named as the culprit because he had abducted 2 women before. He is not but those wanting to escape the heat buy into this story.

My concern is that even if he does go to trial for MM and is sentenced for this, we will have the wrong man and the true culrprit(s) will go Scott free.

I suspect that even if CB is not convicted he will be forever labelled as 'killer' and police will close down any further investigation. Job done.