Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #40

[RichardKimble]

It seems clear that neither the PJ nor the McCanns saw fit to contribute to the 2008 search so presumably they both considered the tip off to be of dubious provenance.

The tip off in 2023 is probably the same has 2008.

 

[Davieson]

The tip off in 2023 is probably the same has 2008.

I don't know. It was said to be a criminal gang rather than an individual but that might just be sloppy reporting.
What puzzles me is what was the motive behinds this anonymous letter and why was it sent to a lawyer, rather than to the police. Was it genuine or was it a hoax ?

 

[Mex]

It seems clear that neither the PJ nor the McCanns saw fit to contribute to the 2008 search so presumably they both considered the tip off to be of dubious provenance.

At the time of MAC's independent search in 2008 MM's parents were deeply involved in their own search for MM who they firmly believed was still living and breathing.

How many hours in a day do you think they have?

As you will see from the link I provided the first thing CAM did on being given the information in 2007 was to check out the location he had been given then report it to the judicial police who made no response.

Snip
The lawyer called for the police to trawl it and said he first passed his information to officers in May.
But when it appeared nothing was done... ... #743

Interesting question you ask though. Are you of the opinion that the search of the reservoir in 2008 was of dubious provenance and do you also opine the search in the area was of dubious provenance too?

 

[Davieson]

At the time of MAC's independent search in 2008 MM's parents were deeply involved in their own search for MM who they firmly believed was still living and breathing.

How many hours in a day do you think they have?

As you will see from the link I provided the first thing CAM did on being given the information in 2007 was to check out the location he had been given then report it to the judicial police who made no response.

Snip
The lawyer called for the police to trawl it and said he first passed his information to officers in May.
But when it appeared nothing was done... ... #743

Interesting question you ask though. Are you of the opinion that the search of the reservoir in 2008 was of dubious provenance and do you also opine the search in the area was of dubious provenance too?

They had underlings. They employed detectives.

The fact that no one was prepared to help resource the 2008 search suggest to me that the tip off was suspect
The 2023 effort was financed by police so they obviously took it seriously

 

[Mex]

I don't know. It was said to be a criminal gang rather than an individual but that might just be sloppy reporting.
What puzzles me is what was the motive behinds this anonymous letter and why was it sent to a lawyer, rather than to the police. Was it genuine or was it a hoax ?

Was there an anonymous letter? Signed "anonymous gang"
MAC was a criminal lawyer mixing with some very dubious individuals; interesting train of thought you raise that you suggest a hoax.

 

[Mex]

The tip off in 2023 is probably the same has 2008.

Could have been. But then again we don't know if there was one in 2023.
What we do know is that the police started digging there as part of an investigation which has already covered a few years with the same prime suspect in the frame.

 

[Consider Dudley]

IIRC the MM search and subsequent investigation was the largest in Portugals history. The idea vast resources were not invested to find her isn’t supported by any evidence.

In fact the opposite. Far more resources were invested to find a non resident that for comparable local cases down the years.

Furthermore the idea she was not looked for because PJ preferred alternate theories is not true. The early weeks were dominated by the Tanner sighting and a key suspect RM.

The PJ wound down the physical search after one week. Police in Wales spent 3 months looking for April Jones. I think the PJ’s effort was very poor by comparison. If they spend even fewer resources and less time on comparable local cases through the years that’s really nothing at all to shout about. IMO.

 

[Consider Dudley]

The PJ wound down the physical search after one week. Police in Wales spent 3 months looking for April Jones. I think the PJ’s effort was very poor by comparison. If they spend even fewer resources and less time on comparable local cases through the years that’s really nothing at all to shout about. IMO.

Tell a lie - the Welsh police didn’t call off the physical search for April,Jones‘ remain until 22nd April 2013. April went missing at the beginning of October the previous year - the best part of 7 months. Madeleine was given up on after a week and as far as anyone knew could still have been alive at that point but the PJ decided enough physical searching had been done at that point. If this was your child would you have been satisfied with a week of physical searching by the police?

 

[mrjitty]

Tell a lie - the Welsh police didn’t call off the physical search for April,Jones‘ remain until 22nd April 2013. April went missing at the beginning of October the previous year - the best part of 7 months. Madeleine was given up on after a week and as far as anyone knew could still have been alive at that point but the PJ decided enough physical searching had been done at that point. If this was your child would you have been satisfied with a week of physical searching by the police?

Much depends on whether there is intelligence on where to search.

IIRC in the recent "australian maddie" case physical searching wound down quite quickly as the immediate locations were covered off. Where else to look tends to require specific intelligence

The reality is significant resources were being invested

As to what I would expect, in a wealthy country like Germany, obviously I would expect significant searches, as we routinely see. If I was on holiday in Thailand, then clearly i can expect much less. Portugal somewhere in between. But expecting a UK level response is not realistic.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Much depends on whether there is intelligence on where to search.

IIRC in the recent "australian maddie" case physical searching wound down quite quickly as the immediate locations were covered off. Where else to look tends to require specific intelligence

The reality is significant resources were being invested

As to what I would expect, in a wealthy country like Germany, obviously I would expect significant searches, as we routinely see. If I was on holiday in Thailand, then clearly i can expect much less. Portugal somewhere in between. But expecting a UK level response is not realistic.

There’s a massive difference between on week and seven months. Given that He Who Must Not Be Mentioned believed that the McCanns were involved in her disappearance from Day One then the search parameters would surely have been fairly clearly limited to a small area which is no doubt where thr week long search was focused but why then give up after one paltry week? How many rubbish tips did they search in that week?

 

[mrjitty]

There’s a massive difference between on week and seven months. Given that He Who Must Not Be Mentioned believed that the McCanns were involved in her disappearance from Day One then the search parameters would surely have been fairly clearly limited to a small area which is no doubt where thr week long search was focused but why then give up after one paltry week? How many rubbish tips did they search in that week?

If CB did it, I believe he was dozens of miles away before a local search even got going.

 

[Consider Dudley]

If CB did it, I believe he was dozens of miles away before a local search even got going.

That’s as maybe, it still doesn’t excuse such a limited physical search imo.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

There is a paper trail, so from that imo , it's not unusual for a German national to rereregister a German car, if not at the time I'm sure it would have been picked up. As it was the BKA were only interested in its (car) movements prior to 3/05/2007.

Anything he has done regarding re-registering around 3/05/2007 should be investigated and it is of interest. And it seems BKA get anything related on the 4th. What is unusual is having a suspect like CB and think it's usual to not pay attention to this.

 

[Davieson]

Anything he has done regarding re-registering around 3/05/2007 should be investigated and it is of interest. And it seems BKA get anything related on the 4th. What is unusual is having a suspect like CB and think it's usual to not pay attention to this.

Do you think any great revelation has come out of CB having re-registered his vehicle ?

 

[misty48]

Anything he has done regarding re-registering around 3/05/2007 should be investigated and it is of interest. And it seems BKA get anything related on the 4th. What is unusual is having a suspect like CB and think it's usual to not pay attention to this.

Had his Jag & registration number been noted in Luz on the evening of the crime, a subsequent check with the German authorities may have simply resulted in the new owner's name being supplied. Given how shoddy some of the PJ investigation was then I doubt they'd have been able to track down either the Jag or the new owner (in Portugal) This situation reminds me somewhat of Ney and his cash card alibi in the Coulom case, whereby the card was used in Germany just a few hours after JC was abducted in France.
Do we know when the Jag was towed back to Germany by CB?

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Do you think any great revelation has come out of CB having re-registered his vehicle ?

The issue is the inverse. CB is the only suspect. If they thought this and all the others were just mere coincidences, not even caring, they would never even know if they are relevant or not.

 

[Davieson]

The issue is the inverse. CB is the only suspect. If they thought this and all the others were just mere coincidences, not even caring, they would never even know if they are relevant or not.

The point is, did it turn out to be relevant. If not the suspicion was unwarranted.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

Had his Jag & registration number been noted in Luz on the evening of the crime, a subsequent check with the German authorities may have simply resulted in the new owner's name being supplied. Given how shoddy some of the PJ investigation was then I doubt they'd have been able to track down either the Jag or the new owner (in Portugal) This situation reminds me somewhat of Ney and his cash card alibi in the Coulom case, whereby the card was used in Germany just a few hours after JC was abducted in France.
Do we know when the Jag was towed back to Germany by CB?

On PJ, not even comment on their alienation of reality.
Don't know when Jag was back to Germany. IMO, and just speculating, that night, he could have used the Jag but I would have thought it easier to use the hippy bus (he should have had it at that time). Jag, maybe to distract attentions of the routine use of hippy bus, or just for disposal purposes. Anyway, it could have left him even more exposed.

 

[RichardKimble]

This is the part of the appeal pertaining to the vehicles and phone numbers, the link to the whole appeal can be found on page one of the very first thread.

Bundeskriminalamt Öffentlichkeitsfahndung Juni 2020 ​	1 ​
DETAILS IN CONNECTION WITH THE SEARCHES Personal details • Nationality: German ​	​
• Sex: • Age: ​	male 43 years ​
FURTHER INFORMATION ON THE SEARCHES ​
• Time of offence: • Place of offence: ​	03/05/2007 Praia da Luz, Portugal ​
In order to clarify the circumstances of the offence, it is of particular importance to establish the actual whereabouts of the suspect at the presumed time of offence (between 21:10 hrs and 22:00 hrs on the day of the offence) At the time in question, the suspect used a dark coloured Jaguar XJR 6 We do not hold any infor mation on the specific registration of the vehicle before the offence was committed The last known registration after the day of the offence was a city of Augsburg registration He also used a white and yellow VW T3 Westfalia with a Portuguese registration There is information suggesting that he may have used one of these vehicles to commit the offence. In addition, he almost certainly used the Portuguese mobile phone number + 351912730680 in the time period in question On 03/05/2007, there was a phone call with a so far unidentified person in the area of Praia da Luz at the material time The conversation partner used the Portuguese phone number + 351916510683 The user of this number is considered an important witness, but was not staying in the area at the time of the call THE BUNDESKRIMINALAMT AND BRAUNSCHWEIG PUBLIC PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE ASK FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE: Can you provide information on the vehicles used by the suspect and/or have you seen the vehicles in the beginning of May 2007? Do you know where these vehicles were parked in the aforementioned time period? Can you provide information on the above mentioned telephone numbers and/or the persons using these numbers in May 2007? Can you provide information on the houses and rooms in the photographs or on other points of contact? ​
Bundeskriminalamt Öffentlichkeitsfahndung Juni 2020 ​	2 ​

 

[Davieson]

This is the part of the appeal pertaining to the vehicles and phone numbers, the link to the whole appeal can be found on page one of the very first thread.

Bundeskriminalamt Öffentlichkeitsfahndung Juni 2020 ​	1 ​
DETAILS IN CONNECTION WITH THE SEARCHES Personal details • Nationality: German ​	​
• Sex: • Age: ​	male 43 years ​
FURTHER INFORMATION ON THE SEARCHES ​
• Time of offence: • Place of offence: ​	03/05/2007 Praia da Luz, Portugal ​
In order to clarify the circumstances of the offence, it is of particular importance to establish the actual whereabouts of the suspect at the presumed time of offence (between 21:10 hrs and 22:00 hrs on the day of the offence) At the time in question, the suspect used a dark coloured Jaguar XJR 6 We do not hold any infor mation on the specific registration of the vehicle before the offence was committed The last known registration after the day of the offence was a city of Augsburg registration He also used a white and yellow VW T3 Westfalia with a Portuguese registration There is information suggesting that he may have used one of these vehicles to commit the offence. In addition, he almost certainly used the Portuguese mobile phone number + 351912730680 in the time period in question On 03/05/2007, there was a phone call with a so far unidentified person in the area of Praia da Luz at the material time The conversation partner used the Portuguese phone number + 351916510683 The user of this number is considered an important witness, but was not staying in the area at the time of the call THE BUNDESKRIMINALAMT AND BRAUNSCHWEIG PUBLIC PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE ASK FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE: Can you provide information on the vehicles used by the suspect and/or have you seen the vehicles in the beginning of May 2007? Do you know where these vehicles were parked in the aforementioned time period? Can you provide information on the above mentioned telephone numbers and/or the persons using these numbers in May 2007? Can you provide information on the houses and rooms in the photographs or on other points of contact? ​
Bundeskriminalamt Öffentlichkeitsfahndung Juni 2020 ​	2 ​

That doesn't say anything about when it was registered.