Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #41

[Davieson]

MM may have wandered out of her flat on her own, to search for her parents, and walked directly into harm's way. Doesn't make her less abducted.

Just because LE doesn't know exactly how she was taken doesn't mean she wasn't.

If she went quietly and her captor led her away without incidence, it's still a nightmare.

It was probably one of his easiest picks (burglaries). Too easy.

JMO

True, though parents were adamant that that couldn't have happened.

Removed from the street,( by person as yet unknown ), would at least explain part of the 'how', although it would rather knock the open window and tampered with shutters story on the head.

 

[RichardKimble]

They also haven't shared anything else apart from the fact that they think CB killed her and have evidence, perhaps just not BARD. we have only been given the end of the story. And we are trying to connect dots from snippets of info they provide. This is what we are doing. And I really believe that if they can prove CB killed her, all the rest is neither here nor there.

People try and put things together here on Websleuths ... Thats always happened fact based or speculation...it would be pretty boring if all people did on here was post the latest news and say well thats that.... I remember the Wayne Couzens case the speculation was wild on here.... One of the greatest cases I have ever seen unfold ....probably because of that

Let us not forget CB wasn't on the radar through any investigation, 2016 raid on his factory was in relation it's reported to Inge, the files, photos or what ever seized would obviously have been ( or at least one supposes) thoroughly gone through, nothing in there pointed in the direction of CB in relation to MM, 2017 the 10th anniversary BBC docu was broadcast, HeB saw this and at some time contacted OG, they interviewed him then passed it over to the BKA. Don't forget HeBs testimony in the trial last year consisted of 4 different versions of what he alleged, reliable? 2020 appeal because obviously what they had and still have and don't have prevents going to trial, so all the speculation, conspiracy theories regarding substances and some unseen evidence ? that had now been seen? add up to nothing, certainly not an understanding of the case against CB or maybe it does, that's the sum of it.

 

[Megnut]

True, though parents were adamant that that couldn't have happened.

Removed from the street,( by person as yet unknown ), would at least explain part of the 'how', although it would rather knock the open window and tampered with shutters story on the head.

It's of course all speculation on this end, but if he was messing with the window, it might have awakened her... and instead of being fearful, she may have been curious. Innocent, inquisitive. It would have been in his best (sick) interest to keep her that way (as opposed to frightened and crying or calling out. We are all familiar with adduction techniques -- candy, a puppy -- and how easily children can be led away, it's terrifying really.

How get got her out of the flat is the least mysterious element of the crime. IMO it wasn't hard.

And in fact, if it was anyone BUT CB (with his nasty proclivities), it would have been instead a different crime, theft of petty valuables while three young children slept.

Who steals a child?

CB, with the stealth of a cat burglar.

Jmo

 

[Mex]

Every story has three parts, a beginning ,middle and end , an investigation wouldn't to far removed from this, HCW and the BKA have given the world parts of the middle, the beginning is MM is missing that's it, in as yet unexplained circumstances, the middle nor the end come to that will ever be complete without the beginning.Not one have any of the LEs explained how MM was removed out of 5a.

Investigators reveal only the most necessary evidence, in this case the scenario was presented for them in the public domain by a witness giving evidence in CB's recent trial on other offences.
That information surely warrants investigation of CB but he infamously won't talk to police.
Snip
"He said he went into the flat because of money and said that he didn't find any money, but found a kid, and took the child, and that two hours later, the place he was, it was then surrounded by police and dogs.

"And he then went away, out of the area, I am just saying what he told me... and he took the child in Portugal n his car, and in the time when the police and dogs were there at the house, he drove away, and he was gone, he asked me if the DNA from a child can be found as evidence and I answered yes."

MSN

 

[Davieson]

It's of course all speculation on this end, but if he was messing with the window, it might have awakened her... and instead of being fearful, she may have been curious. Innocent, inquisitive. It would have been in his best (sick) interest to keep her that way (as opposed to frightened and crying or calling out. We are all familiar with adduction techniques -- candy, a puppy -- and how easily children can be led away, it's terrifying really.

How get got her out of the flat is the least mysterious element of the crime. IMO it wasn't hard.

And in fact, if it was anyone BUT CB (with his nasty proclivities), it would have been instead a different crime, theft of petty valuables while three young children slept.

Who steals a child?

CB, with the stealth of a cat burglar.

Jmo

Quite right, it is all speculation.

There is also this story floating around about her being run over and then removed.

Equally plausible. Equally speculative

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Let us not forget CB wasn't on the radar through any investigation, 2016 raid on his factory was in relation it's reported to Inge, the files, photos or what ever seized would obviously have been ( or at least one supposes) thoroughly gone through, nothing in there pointed in the direction of CB in relation to MM, 2017 the 10th anniversary BBC docu was broadcast, HeB saw this and at some time contacted OG, they interviewed him then passed it over to the BKA. Don't forget HeBs testimony in the trial last year consisted of 4 different versions of what he alleged, reliable? 2020 appeal because obviously what they had and still have and don't have prevents going to trial, so all the speculation, conspiracy theories regarding substances and some unseen evidence ? that had now been seen? add up to nothing, certainly not an understanding of the case against CB or maybe it does, that's the sum of it.

This point needs restating because it’s important: the BKA had the box factory evidence in 2016 but CB wasn’t investigated in relation to MM until HeB provided his statement in 2017.

Therefore, the box factory evidence does not specifically connect CB to MM. It may be useful for profiling but not as a direct link.

There may be witness statements like the one from his cell mate in last year’s trial. I don’t think these testimonies are very valuable as evidence.

That leaves the Hotmail account and what was deleted from it - almost certainly recovered.

Then this begs the question, who was the recipient of these messages? Very likely a key witness and someone who’s identity the BKA have been able to conceal… if they have been identified.

This explains much of the BKA’s case. The messages are detailed and specifically mention MM. I do hope they contain more than stories and can actually be verified against things that actually happened that night.

 

[RichardKimble]

This point needs restating because it’s important: the BKA had the box factory evidence in 2016 but CB wasn’t investigated in relation to MM until HeB provided his statement in 2017.

Therefore, the box factory evidence does not specifically connect CB to MM. It may be useful for profiling but not as a direct link.

There may be witness statements like the one from his cell mate in last year’s trial. I don’t think these testimonies are very valuable as evidence.

That leaves the Hotmail account and what was deleted from it - almost certainly recovered.

Then this begs the question, who was the recipient of these messages? Very likely a key witness and someone who’s identity the BKA have been able to conceal… if they have been identified.

This explains much of the BKA’s case. The messages are detailed and specifically mention MM. I do hope they contain more than stories and can actually be verified against things that actually happened that night.

Didn't HCW say they think CB acted alone, the the info about the Hotmail account didn't determine if he sent it, received or even had what ever was written in the draft section has it?

 

[Mex]

Speculation doesn't alway lead to progress and can send detectives down blind alleys.

MM's case is a prime example of one where speculation led to just that happening in 2007.
But it is a starting point for testing theories and possibilities.

For example, would CB be in the frame at present were it not for the facts surrounding him.
Some innocuous

• such as his familiarity and access as a part time worker at the 0cean Club

Some less so

• such as his criminality
• which featured sexual deviancy

But all the intelligence knits together to form a profile. Others with perhaps a similar profile to CB have been investigated and ruled out. CB only became subject of investigation really late into the MM case and has not been ruled out.

 

[Mex]

Quite right, it is all speculation.

There is also this story floating around about her being run over and then removed.

Equally plausible. Equally speculative

Exactly that 'speculation' formed part of the initial official Portuguese police investigation.
The files record that it was ruled out.

That is what happens with speculations which are simply just a starting point which either get ruled out or which lead to another point of interest or are kept on the back burner.
My opinion

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Didn't HCW say they think CB acted alone, the the info about the Hotmail account didn't determine if he sent it, received or even had what ever was written in the draft section has it?

In the abduction and murder yes, he has said he acted alone. That doesn’t eliminate him bragging about having done it or liaising with a potential buyer as two possible examples.

I think we can look at it practically, emails involve a sender and receiver, it’s unlikely he was just receiving emails or endlessly emailing himself.

My bet is that they haven’t found who he was messaging and the publicity is to try to get them to come forward or give them more time to work out who it is.

 

[frank-cole]

This point needs restating because it’s important: the BKA had the box factory evidence in 2016 but CB wasn’t investigated in relation to MM until HeB provided his statement in 2017.

Therefore, the box factory evidence does not specifically connect CB to MM. It may be useful for profiling but not as a direct link.

There may be witness statements like the one from his cell mate in last year’s trial. I don’t think these testimonies are very valuable as evidence.

That leaves the Hotmail account and what was deleted from it - almost certainly recovered.

Then this begs the question, who was the recipient of these messages? Very likely a key witness and someone who’s identity the BKA have been able to conceal… if they have been identified.

This explains much of the BKA’s case. The messages are detailed and specifically mention MM. I do hope they contain more than stories and can actually be verified against things that actually happened that night.

Great points. Stories etc help paint a picture but unless very specific they don’t form a concrete link. I wonder if he’d have been more cautious with web chats.

 

[tedtink]

Speculation doesn't alway lead to progress and can send detectives down blind alleys.

Which is why they then rule things out.

 

[Lilly b]

This point needs restating because it’s important: the BKA had the box factory evidence in 2016 but CB wasn’t investigated in relation to MM until HeB provided his statement in 2017.

Therefore, the box factory evidence does not specifically connect CB to MM. It may be useful for profiling but not as a direct link.

There may be witness statements like the one from his cell mate in last year’s trial. I don’t think these testimonies are very valuable as evidence.

That leaves the Hotmail account and what was deleted from it - almost certainly recovered.

Then this begs the question, who was the recipient of these messages? Very likely a key witness and someone who’s identity the BKA have been able to conceal… if they have been identified.

This explains much of the BKA’s case. The messages are detailed and specifically mention MM. I do hope they contain more than stories and can actually be verified against things that actually happened that night.

The findings at the box factory was 2016, but how long did it take to go through all the hard drives usb sticks etc, maybe they didn't think too much of importance straight away, and not any link to mm originally, but then, later they did, especially pictures of him in Portugal, and then trying to find exact location etc etc

 

[C.greek]

Madeleine McCann cops find 'clothing and bones' as they probe samples from dig

Detectives investigating the Madeleine McCann case are said to be looking closely at 'clothing debris and bones' found at the search site last week in Lagos, Portugal

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

The findings at the box factory was 2016, but how long did it take to go through all the hard drives usb sticks etc, maybe they didn't think too much of importance straight away, and not any link to mm originally, but then, later they did, especially pictures of him in Portugal, and then trying to find exact location etc etc

OK, but with open borders, why concentrate on Porugal ? We've seen how he travelled to and from Germany by road. Any remote place would do for body disposal - assuming he had a body to dispose of.
If there is a body, it could be literally anywhere

 

[RichardKimble]

The findings at the box factory was 2016, but how long did it take to go through all the hard drives usb sticks etc, maybe they didn't think too much of importance straight away, and not any link to mm originally, but then, later they did, especially pictures of him in Portugal, and then trying to find exact location etc etc

Like I said, it didn't lead them to C B and MM, the BKA were led to that path.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The findings at the box factory was 2016, but how long did it take to go through all the hard drives usb sticks etc, maybe they didn't think too much of importance straight away, and not any link to mm originally, but then, later they did, especially pictures of him in Portugal, and then trying to find exact location etc etc

That is possible. However, the initial investigation was for his involvement in IG’s disappearance. This would have been well resourced and focused on examining anything to do with young blonde girls. I find it doubtful that if there was, for example, an image of MM on the USBs it wouldn’t have been identified.

If you recall, shortly after the appeal HCW spoke of the case being like a “puzzle”. He also said things like, “we need something more, more evidence” and “We have that evidence now”. This leads to the assumption that the evidence was still unfolding after the appeal. This was four to five years after the box factory evidence was (literally) unearthed.

I think piecing things together after HeB’s statement, finding the Hotmail account and then getting a warrant to compel Microsoft to a) give access to the email account and b) recover the deleted files would have taken time. Quite possibly it was being pulled together before and after the appeal.

 

[Hexe]

MM's case is a prime example of one where speculation led to just that happening in 2007.
But it is a starting point for testing theories and possibilities.

For example, would CB be in the frame at present were it not for the facts surrounding him.
Some innocuous

• such as his familiarity and access as a part time worker at the 0cean Club

Was it ever oficially confirmed CB worked in The Ocean Club or is it another instance of tabloid gossip, stated as holy truth?

 

[RichardKimble]

Interesting 60 minute docu, it's bits cobbled together though, the presenter has three different hair styles, but one point of interest Jutta Rabe talks of courts not allowing documents or photo evidence, forensics are needed.20 mins in.
I

 

[RichardKimble]

Was it ever oficially confirmed CB worked in The Ocean Club or is it another instance of tabloid gossip, stated as holy truth?

This is the issue it's sorting the wheat from the chaff, but very often the chaff is pounced on as the wheat.