Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #42

[Davieson]

What would constitute clear evidence of murder?

 

[Hexe]

Ref second point, Tedlink has posted the DT article

Which is for subscribers only, so I cannot access it.

& the documentary has been time stamped underneath for the same reason.

Unfortunately it seems that the German law does work that way.

What does have a timestamp to do with evidence being used in more than one case?

 

[C.greek]

The statue of limitation for possession of cp would have expired early. The prosecutors then chose to go with the easiest to convict crime of child abuse for which he got only 15 months. Proving possession and distribution would have been more difficult. If the abuse of a child- photographed as well - only got him 15 months, what makes anyone think he would have gotten more time with possession? I think the discussion on cp owned by CB is derailing a bit from the most important bit - it paints a person obsessed with young blonde girls.

 

[Hexe]

The statue of limitation for possession of cp would have expired early. The prosecutors then chose to go with the easiest to convict crime of child abuse for which he got only 15 months. Proving possession and distribution would have been more difficult.

With that allegedly gigantic stash of CP dug up on CB's property, under his dead dog, with his pictures mixed in the batch? Difficult? Seriously?

If the abuse of a child- photographed as well - only got him 15 months, what makes anyone think he would have gotten more time with possession?

For a possesion of an, again, a gigantic hoard of CP while being a repeat offender? Of course.

 

[Hexe]

The statue of limitation for possession of cp would have expired early. The prosecutors then chose to go with the easiest to convict crime of child abuse for which he got only 15 months.

The evidence of the child abuse, as far as I remember, did not come from the factory batch, but from CB's laptop/camera. Here it is:

The prime suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann was jailed for sexually abusing the five-year-old daughter of a former girlfriend, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

Christian Brueckner assaulted the youngster in a public park before taking graphic photographs that were later discovered on his digital camera and laptop as police investigated him over a separate claim of domestic violence.

 

[Davieson]

With that allegedly gigantic stash of CP dug up on CB's property, under his dead dog, with his pictures mixed in the batch? Difficult? Seriously?



For a possesion of an, again, a gigantic hoard of CP while being a repeat offender? Of course.

Might depend on type of photo, CP is graded,at least it is in UK, with possession of 'mild images not attracting much in the way punishment.

 

[C.greek]

I truly believe HeB that CB all but confessed to him in 2008.

Busching recounted at a festival in Spain, just one year post Madeleine's disappearance, a chilling conversation with Brueckner about the three year old's case. "I told him I don't understand how somebody can rob little children from a hotel," Busching remembered. Brueckner then responded with a statement that haunted Busching: "She was not screaming. I was thinking, yeah, how you know this... yeah he have to do something with this.
"He took Maddie out from this hotel. He is involved, sure."
Busching admitted he was too scared to probe further and noted that Brueckner abruptly left the festival that night. Busching later left a voicemail for Scotland Yard that year, which went unnoticed among 60,000 others. It wasn't until 2017 that he reached out again, this time through a dedicated hotline. Police swiftly interviewed him, and his account became a key element in the case against Brueckner, leading German prosecutors to identify him as their main suspect.

https://www.the-express.com/news/uk-news/183918/maddie-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner-100-involved-kidnap-says-ex-associate

from CB's own letter, when he got the files and the witness statements
The following sentences from the "witnesses" [redacted] in [redacted] were responsible for all the public hunting and hatred against me by the German authorities: (Alleged on a Hippie-Festival 2008 in Spain) Manfred was also there as well, and Michael, Christian, and I then started talking about Portugal. It was then Christian made a comment about the missing girl. Christian asked me if I was still going to Portugal. I replied "I'm no longer going to Portugal because there are too many problems there; Portugal has too many police for me on account of the missing child. It is indeed strange that she has disappeared without trace." Christian replied, "Yes, she did not scream." ...It is not even worth to make a comment. In 2007, [redacted] sold one kilo of Hashish to me, and when I arrived in Germany with it, I saw that it was only 750 grams. After that, he wasn't existing for me anymore. There wasn't any conversation in 2008. Not even Manfred S. is confirming that.

Sinister letters Madeleine McCann Christian Brueckner revealed

EXCLUSIVE MailOnline reveals convicted sex offender Christian Brueckner wrote letters hoping to get publicity for his campaign to exonerate himself of anything to do with Madeleine McCann.

www.dailymail.co.uk

We know for certain he was there and it seems he left somewhat distressed (also mentioned by HeB), as he had an accident then and filed an insurance claim after crashing his motorhome at Orgiva. this corroborates that CB was indeed there.

From sick images, kids' toys & guns - 8 pieces of evidence against Christian B

BOMBSHELL evidence found at the lair of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner is revealed for the first time. A Sun investigation, to be broadcast at 9pm tonight on Channel 4, has laid bare …

www.thesun.co.uk

Jmo

 

[frank-cole]

What would constitute clear evidence of murder?

Picture or video

I’m sure there’ll be ideas about how a picture doesn’t proof death because it’s not physical evidence. Or whatever claims about framing, photoshop etc.
But imo it’ll be a picture clearly showing MM was murdered, which is certainly strong enough evidence that proves murder.

I think it as possible that all of us are right, to a certain degree.

 

[Hexe]

Might depend on type of photo, CP is graded,at least it is in UK, with possession of 'mild images not attracting much in the way punishment.

Of course, in Gemany it works that way too. But a repeat offender would get for such a gigantic collection more than a slap on a wrist. And, honestly, any amount of time spent by this sleazeball behind bars and not on the streets should be worth of trying.

 

[Davieson]

Picture or video

I’m sure there’ll be ideas about how a picture doesn’t proof death because it’s not physical evidence. Or whatever claims about framing, photoshop etc.
But imo it’ll be a picture clearly showing MM was murdered, which is certainly strong enough evidence that proves murder.

I think it as possible that all of us are right, to a certain degree.

What I was meaning was what would the photo have to depict to show that she was dead ?
What about differentiation between murder and manslaughter / accidental deasth ?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The statue of limitation for possession of cp would have expired early. The prosecutors then chose to go with the easiest to convict crime of child abuse for which he got only 15 months. Proving possession and distribution would have been more difficult. If the abuse of a child- photographed as well - only got him 15 months, what makes anyone think he would have gotten more time with possession? I think the discussion on cp owned by CB is derailing a bit from the most important bit - it paints a person obsessed with young blonde girls.

The SOL for possession of CP would be five years - distribution 10 which is possible if they have images he shared via email or in chats with Panikspatz.

SOL is closely linked to length of likely sentence in Germany with possession of CP carrying a maximum five-year term.

Just to try and straighten out the timeline a little: he was charged and convicted for the molestation of AB’s daughter in roughly 2014 but he fled to Portugal and didn’t serve the term initially. Key evidence was images of this act found on his Casio Elixim camera.

The box factory search was 2016. They could have charged him up to 2021 but they didn’t.

It has been reported that the same images from the 2014 conviction were also stored on the USBs at the factory and because of this he couldn’t be charged for CP possession due to the double jeopardy rule.

Putting this together, they charged him in 2014 for child molestation because it’s a more serious crime than the CP possession (there were other images found in his possession at the time). They didn’t charge him for the 8,000 images because they were found until 2916.

It’s likely then that the first trial prevented a charge for the box factory findings because part of this evidence had been used in an earlier trial.

 

[Lilly b]

What I was meaning was what would the photo have to depict to show that she was dead ?
What about differentiation between murder and manslaughter / accidental deasth ?

I think we can go round in circles all day long, we don't know what they have, we will only find out if it's taken to trial, they certainly won't be giving away anything of importance

 

[Denis R Tandib]

What I was meaning was what would the photo have to depict to show that she was dead ?
What about differentiation between murder and manslaughter / accidental deasth ?

Yeah, it gets too hard trying to shoehorn a photo into the investigation and there not be a charge. I think their evidence infers death from witness statements and CB’s writings. We know MT, HeB, CP etc think he did it and we know they have fantasy writings - I don’t think we need to keep looking deeper than this.

 

[tedtink]

The SOL for possession of CP would be five years - distribution 10 which is possible if they have images he shared via email or in chats with Panikspatz.

SOL is closely linked to length of likely sentence in Germany with possession of CP carrying a maximum five-year term.

Just to try and straighten out the timeline a little: he was charged and convicted for the molestation of AB’s daughter in roughly 2014 but he fled to Portugal and didn’t serve the term initially. Key evidence was images of this act found on his Casio Elixim camera.

The box factory search was 2016. They could have charged him up to 2021 but they didn’t.

It has been reported that the same images from the 2014 conviction were also stored on the USBs at the factory and because of this he couldn’t be charged for CP possession due to the double jeopardy rule.

Putting this together, they charged him in 2014 for child molestation because it’s a more serious crime than the CP possession (there were other images found in his possession at the time). They didn’t charge him for the 8,000 images because they were found until 2916.

It’s likely then that the first trial prevented a charge for the box factory findings because part of this evidence had been used in an earlier trial.

IIRC - The box factory was also searched in a joint operation, by over 100 officers, in 2018.

 

[tedtink]

Yeah, it gets too hard trying to shoehorn a photo into the investigation and there not be a charge. I think their evidence infers death from witness statements and CB’s writings. We know MT, HeB, CP etc think he did it and we know they have fantasy writings - I don’t think we need to keep looking deeper than this.

They need to place the phone in CB’s hand at / near the OC.
HCW said that last week.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IIRC - The box factory was also searched in a joint operation, by over 100 officers, in 2018.

You might be right. I thought the off duty police woman uncovered it in early 2916 and then the large search was December 2016. I could be wrong though.

 

[Hexe]

Just to try and straighten out the timeline a little: he was charged and convicted for the molestation of AB’s daughter in roughly 2014 but he fled to Portugal and didn’t serve the term initially. Key evidence was images of this act found on his Casio Elixim camera.

The box factory search was 2016. They could have charged him up to 2021 but they didn’t.

It has been reported that the same images from the 2014 conviction were also stored on the USBs at the factory and because of this he couldn’t be charged for CP possession due to the double jeopardy rule.

He was tried and sentenced for molesting his ex gf's child In March 2017. After the factory was searched.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

They need to place the phone in CB’s hand at / near the OC.
HCW said that last week.

Yes, I agree. Where I disagree is with the view that this is to support direct evidence like a photo.

They can’t currently prove he was in the area which they must do to support their circumstantial case - if they can’t prove he was there, how can they prove he did it.

If they had the direct evidence, it negates this requirement because he had to have been in contact with her or how else would the photo be in his possession - paedo with a photo of a missing girl. It would get a conviction.

 

[RichardKimble]

I wonder if the phone number that called CB is still active, then the question would be how would it be known , also is it still the main number of the caller.

 

[C.greek]

Yes, I agree. Where I disagree is with the view that this is to support direct evidence like a photo.

They can’t currently prove he was in the area which they must do to support their circumstantial case - if they can’t prove he was there, how can they prove he did it.

If they had the direct evidence, it negates this requirement because he had to have been in contact with her or how else would the photo be in his possession - paedo with a photo of a missing girl. It would get a conviction.

No it wouldn't imo. We saw in the recent trial how difficult it is to prove crimes. Let alone now in MM case, without a body and without DNA. The photo could have been sent to him. If it doesn't have CB in it, his lawyers could find hundreds of things to say to cast doubt. And then that's it.
If they can prove CB was in PdL that night BARD, all the rest of the evidence cannot easily be negated.