Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #42

[RichardKimble]

Actually it is a well written piece! And there are quite a few direct quotes

That's all subjective, well written I mean.

 

[RichardKimble]

It feels like Groundhog Day. Only the first sentence is a direct quote. Who knows where the rest came from, but likely the journo trying to fill gaps and sell papers.

It's all past articles cobbled together imo.

 

[Monic]

What do you mean?

It was a reaction to the electronic ankle bracelet. I think that if someone has been acquitted, they are not authorized to put an ankle bracelet on CB.

I don't know how the legal system works in England, but isn't it possible for CB to be charged there?

 

[frank-cole]

2 years, 9 months:

https://uknip.co.uk/news/uk/uk-news/scarborough-stranger-rape-case-man-sentenced-to-two-years-and-nine-months-imprisonment-for-horrendous-attack-on-young-woman-in-pub-toilet/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

5 years, 9 months:

Bedford monster who raped woman as she walked home after night out is jailed

A sexual predator who raped a woman after dragging her off the street and into his Bedford house has been jailed.

www.bedfordtoday.co.uk

6 years:

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/update/2015-02-09/man-jailed-after-newcastle-rape/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

7 years:

https://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2014-06-20/peckham-man-jailed-for-7-years-for-rape/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

All the above crimes were committed strangers. All were committed in the UK. Where the crimes were committed before 2020 the offenders would have been released on parole after 50% of the sentence was served - this increased to 66% after 2020.

There really are hundreds , if not thousands of cases in the UK where rapists serve less time than CB.

Ok, so none of these are comparable.
I’m looking for cases of breaking into the victims residence, severe brutality and sadism. When I find an example I’ll also look at whether the offender was a career sex offender.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but like the things you’ve kindly sourced and the things I’ve found, there’s nothing with a sentence that low for something comparable.

At least one of the things you’ve sourced had the sentenced doubled on appeal.

 

[frank-cole]

To be clear, this is a forum about MM and CB being suspected of her abduction and murder.

I agree that rape sentences are too lenient. However, it was suggested that CB has served a term which is more lenient and out of step with the UK. This is untrue. There are countless examples of rapists committing multiple offences against women and children and receiving less than seven years - most only serve half their term.

That’s the tricky piece. The conversation naturally drifts to the other cases, which makes sense because to sleuth you need to take into account a history & an MO. Blowing the whistle seems to come when things get challenging.

Do you recall when the other thread was created?
From memory it wasn’t during the trial or when the not guilty verdict came, or in the years prior. I may be completely wrong but I think it was almost immediately after some of the box factory evidence was released. Unfortunate if so, because we’d speculated about the other cases at length for ages yet at that point when we had the most credible pool of resource to sleuth about, the higher traffic/main thread we’d always used was no longer to be used for it.

 

[RichardKimble]

It was a reaction to the electronic ankle bracelet. I think that if someone has been acquitted, they are not authorized to put an ankle bracelet on CB.

I don't know how the legal system works in England, but isn't it possible for CB to be charged there?

Charges for what?

 

[RichardKimble]

That’s the tricky piece. The conversation naturally drifts to the other cases, which makes sense because to sleuth you need to take into account a history & an MO. Blowing the whistle seems to come when things get challenging.

Do you recall when the other thread was created?
From memory it wasn’t during the trial or when the not guilty verdict came, or in the years prior. But it was almost immediately after some of the box factory evidence was released. Unfortunate because that’s the most credible pool of resource we had & the higher traffic/main thread was the one we’d always speculated on before.

The other thread was created when CB was charged,,but the original thread was pulled.

 

[tedtink]

The article above stated the information shared during therapy sessions could be used against him at trial. He was advised not to participate by his lawyer.

Catch 22 for CB then......

"The public prosecutor's office, however, points out that a psychiatric expert in the recent trial determined that further crimes – particularly sexual offenses – could be expected from the man. This risk exists, among other things, because he has not undergone any therapy while in prison."

Verdächtiger im Fall Maddie bald frei - Warnung vor Risiken

Wenige Tage vor der geplanten Haftentlassung des im Fall Maddie Verdächtigen weisen deutsche Ermittler auf mögliche Risiken hin. Weil sie den Mann weiter für gefährlich hält, will die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig, dass der 48-jährige Deutsche nach der Freilassung zumindest eine elektronische...

www.sn.at

 

[frank-cole]

Catch 22 then.......

"The public prosecutor's office, however, points out that a psychiatric expert in the recent trial determined that further crimes – particularly sexual offenses – could be expected from the man. This risk exists, among other things, because he has not undergone any therapy while in prison."

Verdächtiger im Fall Maddie bald frei - Warnung vor Risiken

Wenige Tage vor der geplanten Haftentlassung des im Fall Maddie Verdächtigen weisen deutsche Ermittler auf mögliche Risiken hin. Weil sie den Mann weiter für gefährlich hält, will die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig, dass der 48-jährige Deutsche nach der Freilassung zumindest eine elektronische...

www.sn.at

Ahhhh.. that may be why FF is claiming CB wants to play ball with security (control).

What lawyer doesn’t want their ‘innocent’ client to benefit from the therapy that will help them?

 

[Davieson]

Ahhhh.. that may be why FF is claiming CB wants to play ball with security (control).

What lawyer doesn’t want their ‘innocent’ client to benefit from the therapy that will help them?

A worthy ambition, I would have thought.
Prison should be about rehabilitation as well as retribution. IMO

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Actually it is a well written piece! And there are quite a few direct quotes

i wasn’t commenting on the journalism but the content. Take a look at Richard’s post and article. You’ll see there is only one direct quote in the post I was responding to.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Ahhhh.. that may be why FF is claiming CB wants to play ball with security (control).

What lawyer doesn’t want their ‘innocent’ client to benefit from the therapy that will help them?

One that is working on his acquittal - literally doing his job.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Ok, so none of these are comparable.
I’m looking for cases of breaking into the victims residence, severe brutality and sadism. When I find an example I’ll also look at whether the offender was a career sex offender.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but like the things you’ve kindly sourced and the things I’ve found, there’s nothing with a sentence that low for something comparable.

At least one of the things you’ve sourced had the sentenced doubled on appeal.

Have a look online. There are many cases where offenders have held children captive, drugged them and subjected them to repeated gang rapes. In some instances, they have received less than two years per offence - serving a year.

I am not downplaying DM’s horrible ordeal. My only point is that compared to offences of equal depravity in the UK, CB has has served at least similar gaol time.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Catch 22 for CB then......

"The public prosecutor's office, however, points out that a psychiatric expert in the recent trial determined that further crimes – particularly sexual offenses – could be expected from the man. This risk exists, among other things, because he has not undergone any therapy while in prison."

Verdächtiger im Fall Maddie bald frei - Warnung vor Risiken

Wenige Tage vor der geplanten Haftentlassung des im Fall Maddie Verdächtigen weisen deutsche Ermittler auf mögliche Risiken hin. Weil sie den Mann weiter für gefährlich hält, will die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig, dass der 48-jährige Deutsche nach der Freilassung zumindest eine elektronische...

www.sn.at

This guy claimed that CB was a psychopath. Below article suggests that therapy isn’t helpful in treating this disorder - not helpful at all.

Why would defence team advise him not to remain silent and then undermine this by speaking to a therapist. It’s a nonsensical argument.

https://scispace.com/papers/psychopathy-treatment-behavior-and-sex-offender-recidivism-3jfeuq840r

 

[Monic]

Charges for what?

What may not be sufficient evidence in Germany may be sufficient in another country?
In England, because it concerns an English child.

Or perhaps HB in Ireland because of her rape case?

 

[frank-cole]

What may not be sufficient evidence in Germany may be sufficient in another country?
In England, because it concerns an English child.

Or perhaps HB in Ireland because of her rape case?

In a UK, jury led system, I think he’d certainly have been convicted for at least 2 of the 5 crimes.

I believe Lucy Letby is guilty. Now we know the content of some of the box factory evidence, arguably the evidence implicating Brueckner in Hazel’s case is stronger than the circumstantial evidence that convicted Letby. Albeit it took a very long time to get there!

I know a journalist who’s done some work on the extradition process and why it is highly unlikely this case could be moved to a different country. I was told that Portuguese have enquired about extradition quite recently. But ‘pinch of salt’ unless that’s confirmed by the authorities.

 

[RichardKimble]

What may not be sufficient evidence in Germany may be sufficient in another country?
In England, because it concerns an English child.

Or perhaps HB in Ireland because of her rape case?

Human rights would have a field day, German accuse of Murder of a Brit subject in Portugal, .

 

[C.greek]

Human rights would have a field day, German accuse of Murder of a Brit subject in Portugal, .

But the crime took place in Portugal, with a suspect who was at the time a resident in Portugal. Wouldn't that suffice?

 

[RichardKimble]

But the crime took place in Portugal, with a suspect who was at the time a resident in Portugal. Wouldn't that suffice?

The offences against the person act section 9 and 10 only cover acts commited by Brit subjects, CB would not fall under this.

Without remains indentified as MM and a forensic link to CB then it's a moot point anyway.

Offences against the Person Act 1861

An Act to consolidate and amend the Statute Law of England and Ireland relating to Offences against the Person.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Offences against the Person Act 1861

An Act to consolidate and amend the Statute Law of England and Ireland relating to Offences against the Person.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[C.greek]

The offences against the person act section 9 and 10 only cover acts commited by Brit subjects, CB would not fall under this.

Without remains indentified as MM and a forensic link to CB then it's a moot point anyway.

Offences against the Person Act 1861

An Act to consolidate and amend the Statute Law of England and Ireland relating to Offences against the Person.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Offences against the Person Act 1861

An Act to consolidate and amend the Statute Law of England and Ireland relating to Offences against the Person.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Searching a bit i found that there are 3 principles

(1) The territorial principle "The territorial principle of international law permits states to bring within the ambit of their criminal law and prosecute all crimes committed (in part) within their borders, regardless of the nationality of the perpetrator or the victim."

"According to the (2) active nationality principle, states are permitted to punish offences committed by their nationals regardless of where they are committed.

According to the (3) passive nationality principle, states are permitted to punish offences committed against their nationals regardless of the place of commission. "

The Territorial Principle as a Basis for State Criminal Jurisdiction: Particularly with Regard to Cross-Border Offences and Attempts, and to Multiple Parties to an Offence Acting in Different Countries

Abstract The purpose of this article is to explore the scope of the territorial principle under (customary) international law, with a particular focus on cases of cross-border offences and attempts, and multiple parties to an offence acting in different countries. Our analysis will begin with an...

brill.com

I cannot really say much, as I don't have any background in law, but the above seem to cover all possible avenues I would think? This would also explain why Portugal declared CB an arguido?