Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

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  • #301
Surely stolen passports are used for all kinds of things? I think the terrorist scenario is definitely worth considering, but I'm just as inclined to think they were travelling for other nefarious purposes and got the unlucky plane. I am very curious why there was no alert to these passports. Presumably the men using them knew how to exploit some weakness in the system.
 
  • #302
I will have to find the link but one was stolen or lost 2 years ago and I'm not sure the second one was even reported.

CNN reported the Italian one was reported to Interpol. I don't recall either hearing more information regarding the Austrian.
 
  • #303
UPDATE [2:53am]: The New Straits Times reports that Malaysia's Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) will be searching for the missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 plane off the coast of Kelantan. The search operations come after a small piece of canvas was found by personnel involved in the search and rescue operations.

UPDATE [6:02am]: Associated Press runs an analysis on why MH370 could've disappeared. Experts assume that whatever happened was quick and left no time for pilots to react. Read the full analysis here.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html


Off the coast of Kelantan appears consistent with where the plane dropped off the radar.
Though I think it's further out than "off the coast" but that's likely translation issues.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html


Other updates here, including more information on passengers:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/08/malaysian-airlines-plane-live
 
  • #304
The problem had to be big enough, he said, to stop the plane's transponder from broadcasting its location, although the transponder can be purposely shut off from the cockpit.

--------------------

— Pilot suicide. There were two large jet crashes in the late 1990s — a SilkAir flight and an EgyptAir flight— that are believed to have been caused by pilots deliberately crashing the planes. Government crash investigators never formally declared the crashes suicides but both are widely acknowledged by crash experts to have been caused by deliberate pilot actions.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html

I did not know any pilots had actually committed suicide with a freaking airliner.
How selfish can you be?! :furious:
 
  • #305
Why would it be set up to allow a transponder to be shutoff, stupid. imo
 
  • #306
My first thought was "Wow, two Caucasian terrorists", my second thought was "I wonder if Thailand is the place to buy stolen passports".

Certain areas of Thailand (Phuket) are well known for petty crimes and pickpocketing. I was stationed as an aircrew member in the Pacific in the 90's (airevac), and we were always being advised that passport theft was common-- even before 9/11. At the time, I carried both a military, and a civilian passport on all trips.

As for the feasibility of altering the passport photos, this is increasingly more difficult, as modern passports have the photos actually embedded into the paper of the passport. It's not like the old days when a photo was laminated onto a page of the booklet. There are a lot of embedded anti-forgery features in modern passports.

What is really disturbing is that at least one of these stolen passports was reported to Interpol-- and still slipped thru.

I also wanted to mention that I'm very hopeful that the passengers had only a few seconds of awareness. Time of useful consciousness at FL350 is only about 30-60 sec under good conditions-- and far less if there is explosive decompression. We used to simulate this in the hypobaric (altitude) chamber simulators. (What was really cool is the loss of your color vision at lower altitudes due to mild hypoxia-- the rods and cones in your eyes are very O2 sensitive. We used color wheels and other training aids to learn our own responses to hypoxia.)

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Useful_Consciousness"]Time of useful consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

A lot of pilots commenting on line seem to think some kind of explosive decompression could be a very likely cause-- either from mechanical failure, or criminal. If not, it takes about 3-4 min to fall out of the sky at 35,000 feet. Since there is no instrument evidence of the plane descending, and no cockpit messages or instrument calls, most pilots seem to be leaning toward a scenario that the plane broke up at altitude.
 
  • #307
I just figured out the whole "how fast would it fall" thing.

35,000 feet is approximately 7 miles.
You'd be going 9 miles a minute if you nose dived at 500 miles an hour. (Assuming it was intentional here.)

If they just DROPPED (like lost both engines) they would still fall about that fast... gravity would take over.

If it broke apart, then that'd be different... but a mostly solid plane would hit the water in about a minute.

So it's actually possible that after the last reading at 35,000 feet it hit the water before the next reading.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370/history/20140307/1635Z/WMKK/ZBAA/tracklog

Freaking scary to think about huh? :scared:
 
  • #308
A lot of pilots commenting on line seem to think some kind of explosive decompression could be a very likely cause-- either from mechanical failure, or criminal. If not, it takes about 3-4 min to fall out of the sky at 35,000 feet. Since there is no instrument evidence of the plane descending, and no cockpit messages or instrument calls, most pilots seem to be leaning toward a scenario that the plane broke up at altitude.

Oh dear God. :(
 
  • #309
  • #310
CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 17m

20 on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 worked with Austin, Texas-based Freescale Semiconductor, company says. http://cnn.it/1lhBG6e
 
  • #311
  • #312
Why would it be set up to allow a transponder to be shutoff, stupid. imo

I could be wrong, but I think that is an action movie "myth"
 
  • #313
Surely stolen passports are used for all kinds of things? I think the terrorist scenario is definitely worth considering, but I'm just as inclined to think they were travelling for other nefarious purposes and got the unlucky plane. I am very curious why there was no alert to these passports. Presumably the men using them knew how to exploit some weakness in the system.



BBM.

It could just be incompetence. Remember the underpants bomber? That kid's father walked into the US embassy in Nigeria and said his son was associating with radicals and planning an attack, he paid cash for a 1-way ticket, and he was still nearly successful.
 
  • #314
  • #315
I could be wrong, but I think that is an action movie "myth"

Capt. John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems,
said that whatever happened to the Malaysia Airlines jet, it occurred quickly. The problem had to be big enough, he said, to stop the plane's transponder from broadcasting its location, although the transponder can be purposely shut off from the cockpit.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html

When you type "Thailand fake" into the Google search bar, the first suggestion coming up is "Thailand fake id".

http://travel.cnn.com/bangkok/none/fake-ids-bangkok-137142

Yes, Thailand is well known for fake ID's.
If you were going to hijack a plane and crash it into the ocean...
WHY would you need a different identity to do it?

I don't know that the fake passports mean much... :waitasec:

(Only reason I can think of is so that your identity didn't lead back to anyone else?)
 
  • #316
  • #317
If you were going to hijack a plane and crash it into the ocean...
WHY would you need a different identity to do it?

In case your name is already banned from any flights because it can be tracked back to a certain terrorist group? I think someone already brought this idea up at the very beginning of this thread and explained it more detailed.
 
  • #318

Capt. John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems,
said that whatever happened to the Malaysia Airlines jet, it occurred quickly. The problem had to be big enough, he said, to stop the plane's transponder from broadcasting its location, although the transponder can be purposely shut off from the cockpit.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html



Yes, Thailand is well known for fake ID's.
If you were going to hijack a plane and crash it into the ocean...
WHY would you need a different identity to do it?

I don't know that the fake passports mean much... :waitasec:

(Only reason I can think of is so that your identity didn't lead back to anyone else?)

I guess it's possible someone's name was listed on a "no fly list" and as such they needed a fake identity.
 
  • #319
  • #320

Capt. John M. Cox, who spent 25 years flying for US Airways and is now CEO of Safety Operating Systems,
said that whatever happened to the Malaysia Airlines jet, it occurred quickly. The problem had to be big enough, he said, to stop the plane's transponder from broadcasting its location, although the transponder can be purposely shut off from the cockpit.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html



Yes, Thailand is well known for fake ID's.
If you were going to hijack a plane and crash it into the ocean...
WHY would you need a different identity to do it?
I don't know that the fake passports mean much... :waitasec:

(Only reason I can think of is so that your identity didn't lead back to anyone else?)


If you were a known terrorist, or you suspected you were on a list, you'd use a fake ID.

Also, to protect your family from retribution. The Israelis used to take out the homes of suspected Palestinian terrorists, usually w/ lots of collateral damage.
 
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