Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

[JudyBolton]

I am doubtful that those bags were actually removed. I see this as covering butt. More than once while traveling, my bags wound up in a different state than the state I was going to. I

Yes - I worked in the industry for 10 years (flight attendant) - but it seems this could easily be checked ....or it would be here - I don't know what level of scrutiny happens there.

I cannot find many theories or comments on this but it sounds like a major deal to me. It did not say they failed to make a connection but that they checked their bags, checked in for the flight, and failed to board. (and I assume, failed to go to the gate area).

 

[Derryn Hunch]

I don't know what to make of this "disintegration" angle. I mean, it makes sense and all, but what would cause that to happen?

The aircraft suffered a damaged wingtip in 2012 - approx 1m of the wing was damaged and repaired by Boeing. Unlikely, but its possible that a structural failure has occurred on the repaired wing section, which in turn caused a loss of controlled flight at cruise speed, which is about 100knts under the speed of sound. The airframe would completely break up (engines, wings, tail surfaces torn off and fuselage likely break up into several sections) due to the aerodynamic forces that it would suddenly be thrown into.

That's one way that excludes the bomb theory (which I still feel could be born from nothing more than a few people travelling with false passports for other non-related reasons)

 

[popsicle]

Missing Malaysia Jet Adds Fuel to 'Live Black Box' Debate
Technology Uses Satellites to Transmit Emergency Data but Industry Has Balked at Cost

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579429233516692014-lMyQjAxMTA0MDAwOTEwNDkyWj

 

[Sleuthster]

Interesting thing I noticed from this news article is reference to 2 stolen passports AND 2 other passengers with fake ID. We had heard there where 4 and here is a news story finally putting light to it. http://www.channel4.com/news/malaysia-airlines-lost-plane-turned-back-passports-mystery

 

[panthera]

That is my thought too re each one holding different parts

My thoughts as well. As stated previously, stolen passports appear to be not that unusual in that part of the world, but compounded with the fact that this airplane inexplicably vanished off the radar, I will not believe it was a mechanical problem. The alternative, of course, is that one or more individuals disabled it and there is no legitimate explanation for four passengers using stolen passports and/or false ID.

MOO

 

[ilovepierre]

Yes - I worked in the industry for 10 years (flight attendant) - but it seems this could easily be checked ....or it would be here - I don't know what level of scrutiny happens there.

I cannot find many theories or comments on this but it sounds like a major deal to me. It did not say they failed to make a connection but that they checked their bags, checked in for the flight, and failed to board. (and I assume, failed to go to the gate area).

That seems hinky to me.
I can only think of reason why someone would check their bags, check in for a flight, yet not board. Do we know for sure that those passenger's bags were actually removed? The airline could just be covering their butts...

 

[panthera]

Interesting thing I noticed from this news article is reference to 2 stolen passports AND 2 other passengers with fake ID. We had heard there where 4 and here is a news story finally putting light to it. http://www.channel4.com/news/malaysia-airlines-lost-plane-turned-back-passports-mystery

Also from that link:

"John Goglia, a former board member of the National Transportation Safety Board, the U.S. agency that investigates plane crashes, said the lack of a distress call suggested that the plane either experienced an explosive decompression or was destroyed by an explosive device.

"It had to be quick because there was no communication," Goglia said. He said the false identities of the two passengers was "a big red flag"."

And I agree.

MOO

 

[Aviator]

• Transponder response stopped at 17:21 UTC (01:21 LT), about 40 minutes after takeoff
• There was no verified communication with the aircraft after this time
• Last reported position, altitude, speed and heading as reported by FR24 correct
• No unusual ACARS messages received
• At last known position aircraft had a remaining endurance of approximately 6.5 hours.
• Subsequently aircraft did not enter any area with civilian primary radar coverage
• There were two passengers with confirmed false identities on board, further two suspect.
• Till now no part of the aircraft had been located.

 

[Little Jedi]

Yes. The tweet was not
linked and does not appear to be msm. The article you linked said the Chinese dismissed the claims? Hth

The Wall Street Journal have it also saying 'not confirmed'

'On Sunday afternoon, a statement issued in the name of a previously unknown group claimed that the disappearance of the plane was a political act aimed at the Chinese and Malaysian governments and referred to last week's attack in a Chinese train station that Beijing blamed on Uighur separatists. It stopped short of a claim of responsibility. Malaysian officials said that they were unaware of any claim of responsibility but would investigate all possibilities.'

http://tinyurl.com/q5l8vzf

 

[Tssiemer]

Ok.. ok what else would make a plane go off radar? If it flew too low maybe? Maybe it's not even in the Ocean.

 

[watcher9]

• Transponder response stopped at 17:21 UTC (01:21 LT), about 40 minutes after takeoff
• There was no verified communication with the aircraft after this time
• Last reported position, altitude, speed and heading as reported by FR24 correct
• No unusual ACARS messages received
• At last known position aircraft had a remaining endurance of approximately 6.5 hours.
• Subsequently aircraft did not enter any area with civilian primary radar coverage
• There were two passengers with confirmed false identities on board, further two suspect.
• Till now no part of the aircraft had been located.

I keep seeing "civilian primary radar coverage", but don't understand what this entails? Could it be private small airports?

 

[ilovepierre]

Ok.. ok what else would make a plane go off radar? If it flew too low maybe? Maybe it's not even in the Ocean.

I'm pretty sure a plane is still detectable on radar, even if it is flying too low. But I don't really know much about planes and radar to be 100% sure.

 

[Elley Mae]

In reference to the stolen passports, Are we to assume that the people that used the passports look like the pictures on the passport or do they do a cut and paste with photos. tia

 

[Aviator]

I keep seeing "civilian primary radar coverage", but don't understand what this entails? Could it be private small airports?

There are two types of aviation radar, Primary and Secondary. Primary Surveillance Radar (PSR) operates totally independently of the target aircraft - that is, no action from the aircraft is required for it to provide a radar return.

Whereas the system which became known in civil use as Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR), or in the USA as the Air Traffic Control Radar Beacon System, relies on a piece of equipment aboard the aircraft known as a 'transponder'.

Both are normally correlated together to give an exact position. You may see them at airports, but they are located across many countries to give a picture of coverage to air traffic control centres and not just airports alone.

777s, including the one that disappeared, are equipped with transponders that broadcast details of the plane's altitude, direction and speed. But the transponder on the Malaysian plane apparently didn't report anything amiss.

 

[gia2]

Interesting thing I noticed from this news article is reference to 2 stolen passports AND 2 other passengers with fake ID. We had heard there where 4 and here is a news story finally putting light to it. http://www.channel4.com/news/malaysia-airlines-lost-plane-turned-back-passports-mystery

My question is, how would they not detect that a passport is fake when it is checked at the airport, but suddenly can detect that it is fake after when they don't have posession of it?

 

[Elley Mae]

Nap-of-the-earth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap-of-the-earth

NOE is used to minimize detection by hostile aircraft, AWACS surveillance and control systems, ground-based radar, or attack targets..[1]

Height Above Ground Level (AGL) in NOE and low flying generally vary with the aircraft speed, aircraft maneuverability and the ruggedness of the terrain. Helicopters are capable of flying down to a few feet below the skids or wheels. Fast jets are more constrained and at a typical low-flying speed of 450 knots (800 km/h), 200 feet (60 m) is not unusual and 50 feet (15 m) is possible in relatively flat terrain.

 

[Sleuthster]

My question is, how would they not detect that a passport is fake when it is checked at the airport, but suddenly can detect that it is fake after when they don't have posession of it?

I'll have to look for a link to the news story but I believe Malaysia did not check the list. They're more lax.

 

[jjenny]

My question is, how would they not detect that a passport is fake when it is checked at the airport, but suddenly can detect that it is fake after when they don't have posession of it?

Passports were not fake, they were stolen. Apparently at least two people boarded the plane with stolen passports.

 

[Tssiemer]

My question is, how would they not detect that a passport is fake when it is checked at the airport, but suddenly can detect that it is fake after when they don't have posession of it?

Checking in with the family of the name on the passport and finding out he wasn't on the plane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sleuthster]

Here you go (regards to why passports not checked)
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

"Additionally, no inquiry was made by Malaysia Airlines to determine if any passengers on the flight were traveling on stolen passports, he said. Many airlines do not check the database, he said."