Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

[SophieRose]

Wow - they are all still reporting 2 hours - NBC, BBC, etc.
http://www.straitstimes.com/breakin...s-plane-timeline-events-flight-mh370-20140309

12.40 am - Flight MH370, a Boeing 777-200 carrying 227 passengers from 14 nationalities along with 12 crew members, took off from the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur.

1.22 am - The plane was meant to transfer to Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh air traffic control but never appeared.

2.41 am - Malaysian air traffic control in Subang lost contact with the plane, some two hours after it left Kuala Lumpur
BBM
Just another example of not believing everything you read
What time did that other airliner communicate with them? They were apparently the last ones to make contact.

Why was the plane under Malaysia's air traffic control for over an air when it should have been under Vietnam's control? Seems like the authorities may know more than they are saying. And maybe this is why they are saying they tried to turn back.

 

[CARIIS]

If it's terrorism, there's the issue that the perpetrators usually claim responsibility, that they want people to know what they did and why. And we don't know, and we might not know, exactly, so it makes me wonder if there was another plan but it foiled and they went down

There have been instances wherein no one takes responsibility...IMO, this def terrorism it explains why the story went stagnant for so long – all the countries were scrambling around or Covering their ###!

[FONT="Garamond"]Oh maybe they'll match tickets by who bought them at the ticket counter - assuming that person used the tickets. ????
Cameras would capture ticket purchases? Wait, can't you buy tickets online? Of course you can.
You can also quick check your luggage at some airports from outside the terminal prior to standing in line at the processing counter[/FONT].
The two passengers who used the passports in question appear to have bought their tickets together.
The tickets were bought from China Southern Airlines at identical prices, paid in Thailand's baht currency, according to China's official e-ticket verification system Travel sky. The ticket numbers are contiguous, which indicates the tickets were issued together.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

: There has been mention of the plane possibly turning around.... first of all what would lead them to think that

I agree –no radar track this far shows this before it goes off tracking
Also re turning around the flight was 6 hours long I would think (9-11) passengers would text something like we are turning around with no explanation!
Just my notions!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Exactly why I am curious if the real Christian and Luigi had been to those destinations before the passports were stolen...or does that information still appear on passports? I cannot understand the routing either to get to the final destinations unless the impostors were trying to replicate itineraries which were already on the passports and/or as your suggest, the air partner (South China) was extremely lax in security so the impostors didn't believe they'd be caught. I also would think if drugs were involved one would take the most direct route. Still believe it's terrorism.

MOO

I think it's terrorism too, and probably by an established group rather than just these 2 individuals. Theories that the target was China/ Chinese nationals make most sense to me.

 

[gia2]

True but even if not responsible (just posted about this above), the people using stolen passports may have been up to no good. Especially considering their final destinations. When I hear Frankfort, I recall 911. Many potential suspects were detained from leaving there in the week following 911.

Their final destinations may have been a hint? Thinking along the line of claiming responsibility? Heck, I'm just talking!

I definitely agree with you, there has to be a reason why a couple of people would need to use a stolen passport!

 

[elmomom]

Interesting also that the ticket holders chose Germany and Denmark as their destinations which would seem plausible with the real holders of those passports, but would also cost a lot more money than if the ultimate destinations had been Beijing, for example. Also curious if the Italian, Miraldi, had been to Denmark before his passport was stolen and therefore that is why the impostor booked Copenhagen as his destination?

:waitasec:

MOO

Bouncing off your post.
1. Both passengers were booked to Bejing, and then on to Amsterdam. From Amsterdam, one was then booked to Copenhagen and the other to Franfurt.

2. In order to fly into China without a visa, one must have a pre booked flight leaving China from the same airport as the arrival set to leave within 72 hours of the arrival in China. With false documentation, it would have been impossible to obtain a visa to China, so they had to have arranged flights out to a Western country.

3. There was a previous bombing, more than a couple of years ago, on an African (?h airliner, where two people were given explosives and tickets that had three total legs, like this one did (A: Malaysia-China, B: China-Amsterdam, C: Amsterdam to X). The carriers were told to disembark from the flight at destination B and that the bomb would detonate on Leg C, but in actuality, it was set to detonate on the first leg and kill the unsuspecting carriers.

4. The consensus of opinion on the aviation forums I have read is that the likelihood that these two travelers were terrorists is pretty low, although not to be discounted.

5. One obvious problem with flying to a western country on a stolen passport is that you will be caught when you try to cross into the final destination as the Europena countries all do check the passport lists. So it is likely that the two passengers either were not planning on completing their journey, or were trying to illegally cross into Europe as refugees. To do this, apparently one would ditch any paperwork regarding citizenship so that there is no way for a country to easily "send you back where you came from", since no country will take you without proper paperwork. It has been fairly common for Syrians and others to use this method, and Thailand is considered a hotspot for obtaining stolen passports.

Ok, these are all things I have assimilated from reading outside of WS. I apologize for the lack of links, just consider it my opinion... Hope it adds some value.

Oh, one last thing, the story about the airline pilot contacting the plane after it had lost contact and getting muttering and static has been debunked. Several times.

 

[al66pine]

Someone (kittychi?) asked -
Why report passposts stolen if airlines do not check them against lost/stolen database, when boarding.

Another poster said - so if any suspicious behavior is associated w PP, then LE would not link to you.

Also when a person loses US PP or has it stolen wants to get NEW PP,
it must be reported as such, before new PP is issued.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/lost-stolen.html
If your passport has been lost or stolen, it should be reported immediately
to help protect yourself against identity theft and to prevent someone else from using the passport.
If you are in the United States and are not traveling within 2 weeks:

• You must submit Form DS-11 and DS-64 in person at an authorized Passport Application Acceptance Facility

More at link, if you are out of US or if you are traveling w'in 2 weeks.

 

[Waddles]

The that that it's not 2 but 3, the 3rd suspect passport with the Chinese national having his passport number used makes me think they weren't just illegal immigrants

 

[panthera]

I think it's terrorism too, and probably by an established group rather than just these 2 individuals. Theories that the target was China/ Chinese nationals make most sense to me.

Agree, it most likely would not be two random individuals, but those individuals part of a much larger group. Also agree as to the target as they were the majority of passengers on board.

MOO

 

[CARIIS]

The aircraft involved had a mishap resulting in 3 feet of a wingtip being repaired. Could be important if it is not terror attack

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-plane-two-years-ago-breaking-wingtip.html

 

[panthera]

Bouncing off your post.
1. Both passengers were booked to Bejing, and then on to Amsterdam. From Amsterdam, one was then booked to Copenhagen and the other to Franfurt.

2. In order to fly into China without a visa, one must have a pre booked flight leaving China from the same airport as the arrival set to leave within 72 hours of the arrival in China. With false documentation, it would have been impossible to obtain a visa to China, so they had to have arranged flights out to a Western country.

3. There was a previous bombing, more than a couple of years ago, on an African (?h airliner, where two people were given explosives and tickets that had three total legs, like this one did (A: Malaysia-China, B: China-Amsterdam, C: Amsterdam to X). The carriers were told to disembark from the flight at destination B and that the bomb would detonate on Leg C, but in actuality, it was set to detonate on the first leg and kill the unsuspecting carriers.

4. The consensus of opinion on the aviation forums I have read is that the likelihood that these two travelers were terrorists is pretty low, although not to be discounted.

5. One obvious problem with flying to a western country on a stolen passport is that you will be caught when you try to cross into the final destination as the Europena countries all do check the passport lists. So it is likely that the two passengers either were not planning on completing their journey, or were trying to illegally cross into Europe as refugees. To do this, apparently one would ditch any paperwork regarding citizenship so that there is no way for a country to easily "send you back where you came from", since no country will take you without proper paperwork. It has been fairly common for Syrians and others to use this method, and Thailand is considered a hotspot for obtaining stolen passports.

Ok, these are all things I have assimilated from reading outside of WS. I apologize for the lack of links, just consider it my opinion... Hope it adds some value.

Oh, one last thing, the story about the airline pilot contacting the plane after it had lost contact and getting muttering and static has been debunked. Several times.

BBM

Was totally unaware of this restriction regarding China, therefore it explains a lot as to the itineraries of these two impostors. I don't believe, however, either of them planned to land in Europe.

MOO

 

[highflyer]

What would be the reasons someone would use a stolen/ fake passport other than for nefarious purposes?

 

[trigger]

Its on Fox news channel

 

[elmomom]

Another thing I learned while perusing the outside of WS world is that the radical Uighurs that are responsible for terrorist acts within China do have a really big beef with Malaysia as well, so if it is terrorism, it is not surprising that a Malaysian airline destined for China would have been chosen. This is a link explaining the relationship of the Uighers and Malaysia:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/05/malaysia-uighur-asylum-seekers-china

 

[catatonia]

Agree, it most likely would not be two random individuals, but those individuals part of a much larger group. Also agree as to the target as they were the majority of passengers on board.

How did they get to know the passengers nationalities?

 

[elmomom]

What would be the reasons someone would use a stolen/ fake passport other than for nefarious purposes?

Not uncommon for illegal immigration and people seeking asylum.
Oh, ad one other thing, apparently somewhere in the region there are the equivalent of indentured servants... Workers who are kept by farmers who take their travel documents and prevent them from leaving. These people will attempt to leave when they can afford to buy a stolen passport.

Sorry about the non specificity, I read about it early today, no link, no details, I've oversaturated on info today

 

[fraudqueen]

You'd be absolutely amazed at the amount of people carrying fraudulent documents..it might even make you wonder about your neighbors. They do it for every reason you can imagine.
I was in charge of fraud detection for the Florida Department of Highway Safety before I retired. I also taught law enforcement and license employees how to detect fraudulent documents and deceptive behavior (also taught classes for five other states). In just a few years we had over 1,000 arrests for people trying to assume fake identities.
However, I am beginning to believe this is terrorism...to many reports coming out and then being retracted. JMO

 

[revampz]

Malaysia's state news agency quoted Home Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi as saying the passengers using the stolen European passports were of Asian appearance, and criticizing border officials who let them through.

"I am still perturbed. Can't these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian (passport holders) but with Asian faces," he was quoted as saying late on Sunday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140309

I am actually quite angry today.......I was a travel agent for 15 years and am about to reenter that industry.....over the years I have become quite scared of flying internationally because of the threat of terrorism and when I am on a flight I always check out the other passengers because of this.....silly I know...

However I tell myself that in this day and age and with all that has happened that they are as strict as at airports and have been trained to note anything a bit peculiar and check it out....this eases my mind somewhat and I bet I am not the only one who thinks like this.

Australia is very strict, I haven't been to the US for years but can only imagine the security you guys have and recently flew into and out of Abu dabhi, London, Paris, Dublin, Belfast, Edinburgh and felt very secure with the level of security..

And the stolen passports were actually on a stolen passport database!!!!! How could they not have computer technology linking this to reservation systems and check in systems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It looks more and more like a terrorism attack with these 2 stolen passports, the chinese man who has had his passport no. used and there must be 1 other suspicious one as well as they are looking into four "not quite right" cases. I also think it odd that 5 people who had checked in did not board!! that is quite a high no...... there luggage was taken off, but that is a bit weird to me.

And it looks like they may have found the door, so not looking good...I really hope those poor passengers were not terrified for long...........what may have happened is one of my biggest fears, and has put me of flying.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Right now, to me it sounds like mechanical failure. CNN is reporting a debris field has been located and that the malaysian govt is telling the families to prepare for the worst..

 

[panthera]

The aircraft involved had a mishap resulting in 3 feet of a wingtip being repaired. Could be important if it is not terror attack

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-plane-two-years-ago-breaking-wingtip.html

"The aircraft had a clipped wing tip. A portion, possibly a metre of the wing tip, was torn," Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya told reporters.

"It was repaired by Boeing and cleared by Boeing and was approved by various authorities. It was safe to fly."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/09/21/29/malaysia-jet-was-damaged-in-2012

 

[CARIIS]

RE: They really need this new wifi flight recorder which constantly transmits data about air speed, height etc. It costs a lot of money so the airlines are not keen on investing in it.

Actually the 777 has something like you are speaking about. It is called AIMS and basically it transmits to the next airport the craft is heading for. Basically it is for maintenance – they can start to problem solve before aircraft hits gate.

This is also something very mysterious – the first reports indicated that the airline had lost contact NOT ATC. Airlines are typically not in contact with cockpits unless they are trying to problem solving something with ground folks.

So this notion that there is NOTHING as it relates to the first 40 minutes before disaster sounds bogus from the get go.It is also very odd that for days the reports kept saying that they lost the aircraft 2 hours into the flight- this is not a tough calculation! Take-off off radar 40 minutes peroid! The two hours lasted for days in the media??

Why would ATC not be the first entity to report an aircraft missing?
https://www.stevens.edu/sse/sites/default/files/777 Systems Integration.pdf