Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #1

[Wolf Dreamer]

I'm just not sure that the red means anything? It had done that a couple of other times on that same video. Wish we knew which tracker they were using and if that's a normal part of their software.

Here's another link (not the same flight tracker quoted above, I'm assuming, since it doesn't turn red) (ETA - I just realized it's the same video source from the link you quote...):

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh370/#2d81a27

Planes on FR24 go red when you select them, it's a site I've used quite a lot. All the planes appear in yellow if you haven't selected one.

You can also filter it and you can set it to replay a flight. So whoever recorded it probably went back and recorded it on replay.

 

[Plumeria5]

Right now, to me it sounds like mechanical failure. CNN is reporting a debris field has been located and that the malaysian govt is telling the families to prepare for the worst..

Is this the report from earlier in the day?

 

[mck16]

Planes on FR24 go red when you select them, it's a site I've used quite a lot. All the planes appear in yellow if you haven't selected one.

You can also filter it and you can set it to replay a flight. So whoever recorded it probably went back and recorded it on replay.

going red means absolutely nothing to the general public following on flight tracker. jmo

 

[revampz]

Very interesting about the wing......I am still (slightly) going towards terrorism, especially with what happened at the train station in China only last week!!

I know that was reported all over the world, but don't know why more of a fuss was not made of that attack......I was so shocked that they just went in and stabbed people to death....how horrible and disguisting....I think it is an all out assault on china by this group.

 

[mom-a-licious]

with this type of plane is there any chance of the pilot becoming incapacitated due to lack of oxygen the way it happened on the Helios airways flight in 2005?

 

[SophieRose]

How did they get to know the passengers nationalities?

Passenger Manifest

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/con...Airlines Flight MH 370 Passenger Manifest.pdf

 

[CARIIS]

RE: They really need this new wifi flight recorder which constantly transmits data about air speed, height etc. It costs a lot of money so the airlines are not keen on investing in it.

Actually the 777 has something like you are speaking about. It is called AIMS and basically it transmits to the next airport the craft is heading for. Basically it is for maintenance – they can start to problem solve before aircraft hits gate.
https://www.stevens.edu/sse/sites/default/files/777 Systems Integration.pdf

This is also something very mysterious – the first reports indicated that the airline had lost contact NOT ATC. Airlines are typically not in contact with cockpits unless they are trying to problem solving something with ground folks.

Why would ATC not be the first entity to report an aircraft missing?
So this notion that there is NOTHING as it relates to the first 40 minutes before disaster sounded bogus from the get go.

It is also very odd that for days the reports kept saying that they lost the aircraft 2 hours into the flight- this is not a tough calculation! Take-off and then off radar 40 minutes period! The two hours reports lasted for days in the media??

Also it is important to recall that Homeland issued a warning a month ago regarding shoe bombs on airliners from very credible Intel.
Other notions in my opinion as it relates to this:

Going to Beijing - where were last Olympics held?
Time of incident nighttime time for debris to shift (Air India)
Area: Less recovery capacities in the ocean in that part of the world
Passports
American made jumbo jet
Full flight

Lack of debris indicates something happened at high altitude - think of large firework and how stuff will rain down - large debris field
The confusion in identifying an airline part that was a chunk of wood is, really in this day and age beyond silly!
The notion that there is still debate about what was found today is also IMO, silly. One look at the picture clearly resembles a door from an aircraft!
The time it took for the story to change and become fluid again was really long IMO - time to cover butt at airport security problems?
If it actually took 6 governments days to determine fake passports on an International flight then we have problems in another whole arena!

The word terrorism was not even uttered for HOURS - a plane is obliterated in a second and it takes HOURS to even mention terrorism??
Controversy if aircraft turned around - again- just does not jive with technological capacities in this day and age - it did or did not -tracking info indicates no such thing

Days later the FBI gets involved, then Homeland, in TWA FBI lead from the beginning


It went from, finally, maybe terrorism to a 'passport ring crime syndicate
http://news.asiaone.com/news/relax/...e-officials-not-ruling-out-uighur-involvement

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Is this the report from earlier in the day?

I just saw it now as CNN was waiting for the sun to come up with live reporter.

 

[bexlex]

Hard to tell, however, it has been said that new passports have the photos embedded in them, making it extremely difficult for someone to do the "cut and paste". In any event, one would think the impostors would have to look like the names on the stolen passports. In other words, I cannot envision two Asian or Middle Eastern men with names such as Christian and Luigi.

MOO

Malaysia's state news agency quoted Home Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi as saying the passengers using the stolen European passports were of Asian appearance, and criticizing border officials who let them through.

"I am still perturbed. Can't these immigration officials think? Italian and Austrian (passport holders) but with Asian faces," he was quoted as saying late on Sunday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/us-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUSBREA2701720140309

I was incredibly shocked to learn that they were Asian. Is this a really low-budget effort on someone's part? Effort to what end - I'm not sure

 

[PHB]

It does, but you have to be near it to get it. That's really stupid in this day and age. Also, it runs on a battery so the signal will eventually die out. I don't know how long they last, but I'd think at least several days.

30 days, I was told.

 

[catatonia]

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/as-night-falls-minister-says-mh370-still-missing

 

[trigger]

On Fox News

Rescuers searching land along the coast.
Showed a video. (Nothing but body of water...) imo
Aircraft sees a rectangle object in sea off their coast which maybe a door to the plane.
Plane was trying to turn around.
Its daybreak there now which will help.

Retired NTSB, Dr Vernon Grose says recorders only thing that will give us evidence.
He says if plane was turning around pilot should be able to communicate that.
There are 2 recorders, a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data recorder. Both have pingers on them. If they are in water they will ping.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Hard to tell, however, it has been said that new passports have the photos embedded in them, making it extremely difficult for someone to do the "cut and paste". In any event, one would think the impostors would have to look like the names on the stolen passports. In other words, I cannot envision two Asian or Middle Eastern men with names such as Christian and Luigi.

MOO

Basically, I agree. Yet there are Asian people who have been adopted by other nationalities throughout the world. Thais are adopted by couples from lots of different European countries as well as by Americans and possibly Canadians (don't personally know any). But, despite a mismatched name that may be real, the language spoken should match the origin of the passport as well.

So, imo, it's possible to have a youngish man who looks Asian whose name sounds Dutch, English or American. I'm not as sure regarding Italian as I didn't run across any Italians while living in Thailand. Australian and English along with Scandinavian people are frequently expats in Thailand. I'm trying to remember if I knew any Dutch people but believe they frequent the resort areas of Thailand for vacations. Think back to the tsunami of 2004 for instance - can't believe almost tens years ago.

What the heck? My answer wouldn't explain mismatched pictures. Only if there's a way to replace the picture while still using the name originally on the passport.

 

[Derryn Hunch]

Bouncing off your post.
1. Both passengers were booked to Bejing, and then on to Amsterdam. From Amsterdam, one was then booked to Copenhagen and the other to Franfurt.

2. In order to fly into China without a visa, one must have a pre booked flight leaving China from the same airport as the arrival set to leave within 72 hours of the arrival in China. With false documentation, it would have been impossible to obtain a visa to China, so they had to have arranged flights out to a Western country.

3. There was a previous bombing, more than a couple of years ago, on an African (?h airliner, where two people were given explosives and tickets that had three total legs, like this one did (A: Malaysia-China, B: China-Amsterdam, C: Amsterdam to X). The carriers were told to disembark from the flight at destination B and that the bomb would detonate on Leg C, but in actuality, it was set to detonate on the first leg and kill the unsuspecting carriers.

4. The consensus of opinion on the aviation forums I have read is that the likelihood that these two travelers were terrorists is pretty low, although not to be discounted.

5. One obvious problem with flying to a western country on a stolen passport is that you will be caught when you try to cross into the final destination as the Europena countries all do check the passport lists. So it is likely that the two passengers either were not planning on completing their journey, or were trying to illegally cross into Europe as refugees. To do this, apparently one would ditch any paperwork regarding citizenship so that there is no way for a country to easily "send you back where you came from", since no country will take you without proper paperwork. It has been fairly common for Syrians and others to use this method, and Thailand is considered a hotspot for obtaining stolen passports.

Ok, these are all things I have assimilated from reading outside of WS. I apologize for the lack of links, just consider it my opinion... Hope it adds some value.

Oh, one last thing, the story about the airline pilot contacting the plane after it had lost contact and getting muttering and static has been debunked. Several times.

Well said - I think everyone is fixated on these passports and the unidentified travelers pointing toward terrorism, when I think you will find on any given flight there is more than likely a couple of people travelling on false documents. A friend of mine works for Australian Customs at one of our major international airports here in Australia. I actually brought up the topic of people traveling on false passports one day a while ago - I had been offered some exceptionally good fake Australian passports whilst on adventures in Thailand that were in every way identical to my real passport when I compared them side by side, including all security features (holographic overlays, UV ink etc etc). I was stunned at how good these were and I'm not overstating it when I say they would have been visually indistinguishable to the real deal, even under close up scruitiny.

SO of course the first thing I brought up with my friend the next time we saw eachother was the topic of these passports I had seen. Long story short, I asked her if she had ever seen anything like them and if they were aware of their existence and potential threat. She reckons there's not a day that goes by without a handful of people being caught travelling on false (fake) passports - ranging from comical in their poor quality through to the standard I had seen and then beyond, which is where the difference is in having a fake vs stolen and altered.

She reckons there are certain giveaways (like the "Fakes" not actually being registered on the australian passport database system, which gives them away when they're swiped on entry - only to come up with an error due to not existing!) that catch those people out... but then there are others who have spent the big bucks on a professionally altered original and pass on through compltely undetected.

Point is, every time you jump on an international flight, there is a more than good chance that there are a few people who are not who they are representing to be. "Ignorance is bliss" has just been put in the spotlight because of this incident and now people are shocked to find out

 

[Plumeria5]

On Fox News

Rescuers searching land along the coast.
Showed a video. (Nothing but body of water...) imo
Aircraft sees a rectangle object in sea off their coast which maybe a door to the plane.
Plane was trying to turn around.
Its daybreak there now which will help.

Retired NTSB, Dr Vernon Grose says recorders only thing that will give us evidence.
He says if plane was turning around pilot should be able to communicate that.
There are 2 recorders, a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data recorder. Both have pingers on them. If they are in water they will ping.

I switched over to watch and they were back to talking about ObamaCare.:banghead:

 

[panthera]

I was incredibly shocked to learn that they were Asian. Is this a really low-budget effort on someone's part? Effort to what end - I'm not sure

It is quite appalling that something so obvious was not caught when these individuals passports were checked at the airport. After checking the passenger manifest, comprised mainly of Chinese and Muslim names, it should have been a 'red flag' that those men were not Christian and Luigi. Did either of them speak the native tongue of the country of issuance? If questioned were they going to claim they were "adopted" and therefore had non-Asian names? Who they were and what they were doing on the flight is still very suspicious.

MOO

 

[cluciano63]

On Fox News

Rescuers searching land along the coast.
Showed a video. (Nothing but body of water...) imo
Aircraft sees a rectangle object in sea off their coast which maybe a door to the plane.
Plane was trying to turn around.
Its daybreak there now which will help.

Retired NTSB, Dr Vernon Grose says recorders only thing that will give us evidence.
He says if plane was turning around pilot should be able to communicate that.
There are 2 recorders, a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data recorder. Both have pingers on them. If they are in water they will ping.

Sounds like speculation combined with old news. I.e from earlier in the day?

 

[CARIIS]

RE: "The aircraft had a clipped wing tip. A portion, possibly a metre of the wing tip, was torn," Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya told reporters.
"It was repaired by Boeing and cleared by Boeing and was approved by various authorities. It was safe to fly."

JAL 123 had repairs, was certified safe, flew for years and ended up being the worst single crash in aviation history!
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-jal123.shtml
Continental Express Flight 2574
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Express_Flight_2574"]Continental Express Flight 2574 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

American Airlines Flight 191 Maintenance procedure in place a while and deemed safe!
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191"]American Airlines Flight 191 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

going red means absolutely nothing to the general public following on flight tracker. jmo

regardless, there are a lot of "plane spotters" out there who would have picked up on an emergency squawk and it would have been all over the internet before the plane was officially reported missing. There's no way it could have been kept quiet.

 

[mck16]

Well said - I think everyone is fixated on these passports and the unidentified travelers pointing toward terrorism, when I think you will find on any given flight there is more than likely a couple of people travelling on false documents. A friend of mine works for Australian Customs at one of our major international airports here in Australia. I actually brought up the topic of people traveling on false passports one day a while ago - I had been offered some exceptionally good fake Australian passports whilst on adventures in Thailand that were in every way identical to my real passport when I compared them side by side, including all security features (holographic overlays, UV ink etc etc). I was stunned at how good these were and I'm not overstating it when I say they would have been visually indistinguishable to the real deal, even under close up scruitiny.

SO of course the first thing I brought up with my friend the next time we saw eachother was the topic of these passports I had seen. Long story short, I asked her if she had ever seen anything like them and if they were aware of their existence and potential threat. She reckons there's not a day that goes by without a handful of people being caught travelling on false (fake) passports - ranging from comical in their poor quality through to the standard I had seen and then beyond, which is where the difference is in having a fake vs stolen and altered.

She reckons there are certain giveaways (like the "Fakes" not actually being registered on the australian passport database system, which gives them away when they're swiped on entry - only to come up with an error due to not existing!) that catch those people out... but then there are others who have spent the big bucks on a professionally altered original and pass on through compltely undetected.

Point is, every time you jump on an international flight, there is a more than good chance that there are a few people who are not who they are representing to be. "Ignorance is bliss" has just been put in the spotlight because of this incident and now people are shocked to find out

And this is sad. And it will be sadder if these imposters are found to be in any way to be responsible for this horrible tradgedy. jmo