Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #14

[Waddles]

just going over these eye witness sightings/believed sightings again, interesting reading
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/19/w...ound-witnesses/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

 

[Lola68]

Sky reporting that French satellite has picked up images of possible debris in Indian Ocean
http://news.sky.com/story/1230387/missing-plane-french-satellite-spots-debris

 

[Waddles]

Hopefully it's just a matter of time before a pic from the French satellite makes its way to the press...

no new info about the French satellite pics yet just "potential objects"

 

[inkpink]

With regards to the fuel, has there been anything official reported on it, i.e. exactly how much, the fuelling process etc...

And a theory in relation this......Could the 'refueller's' have something to do with this? Maybe the normal amount for this trip was requested but someone else made sure the plane was full - assuming it was of course!

 

[Waddles]

With regards to the fuel, has there been anything official reported on it, i.e. exactly how much, the fuelling process etc...

And a theory in relation this......Could the 'refueller's' have something to do with this? Maybe the normal amount for this trip was requested but someone else made sure the plane was full - assuming it was of course!

True, surprisingly the media says it's not clear how much it was carrying. You would indeed think whoever filled it up knows!

While it is not clear how much fuel the Boeing-777 was holding, there would have been enough to fly it at cruising altitude to its scheduled destination, Beijing, a nearly six-hour flight. It is believed, however, the missing jet may have been flying at a higher altitude, which would have allowed it to carry on for longer.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/mh370-malaysian-police-search-pilot-new-theory

 

[ToutCa]

On the fuel question: Investigators have already publicly stated the plane had a normal fuel load for the KL/Beijing route, 16,120 gallons(Wall St Journal). I researched it extensively, and the only published source for the "full tank of 117,000 liters" is pure speculation without evidence by the consultant in the Australian tabloid, Neil Hansford. It's important to recall that no matter how much fuel the plane had, satellite ping data establishes that on March 8 it only flew continuously until 9:10am at the latest, then stopped (8.5 hours flight time).

 

[inkpink]

I haven't read the book. Sounds interesting. I agree with you though, people coming here by boat are desperate and only want a better life for themselves and their family. I can't blame them. The way they are treated by Australia is disgraceful.

I know, it makes me feel all of this..... :tantrum::maddening::sick::anguish::anguish::furious::crying::banghead:

I hate that it seems we are a minority in the way we think of this.

 

[ToutCa]

True, surprisingly the media says it's not clear how much it was carrying. You would indeed think whoever filled it up knows!

The Guardian report saying the fuel level was unclear was from March 15.

The precise fuel level of 16,120 gal. was released by investigators to media March 21.

 

[inkpink]

On the fuel question: Investigators have already publicly stated the plane had a normal fuel load for the KL/Beijing route, 16,120 gallons(Wall St Journal). I researched it extensively, and the only published source for the "full tank of 117,000 liters" is pure speculation without evidence by the consultant in the Australian tabloid, Neil Hansford. It's important to recall that no matter how much fuel the plane had, satellite ping data establishes that on March 8 it only flew continuously until 9:10am at the latest, then stopped (8.5 hours flight time).

Thanks ToutCa

So how much fuel would have it needed to fly 8.5 hours?

If more than the reported 16, 120 gallons then that would raise questions how it came about that the plane had the extra fuel..

Sorry if this has already been covered....

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

ITA. I wish the person he spoke too would step up. But no, we are in limbo once again.

She might have. But we have no right to know.

 

[Steely Dan]

fftobed: :waiting:

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Fuel weighs a lot. The more weight on the aircraft when it takes off the more fuel it burns. The crew figures out the weight of the passengers and cargo plus the distance to their destination. They then calculate the required amount of fuel needed plus a reserve.

That's how they determine how much fuel to take on. If they just "filled up" on every flight, they would waste fuel by being heavier than necessary at takeoff and cost more money in fuel. Airlines don't like to waste money.

MOO.

Several threads back I mentioned that on one of the pilot forums they discussed the fact that it was not unusual to load up with more fuel than required at certain stops. Apparently there is a significant difference in price between subsidised Malaysian fuel (perhaps because its the home airline) vs the price of refuelling in Beijing.

 

[21merc7]

Article include news video (I add that for those with volume turned on. I walk around in here with wireless headphones on, so I don't disturb neighbors and can move about, but others may not do that, and may not want to wake little ones or other members of household.)

Satellite images from France aid in search for missing Malaysian airliner

Now a third set of satellite images point to possible debris in the southern Indian Ocean, where an international team led by Australia is scouring the waters for remnants of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
French authorities passed on images showing "potential objects in the vicinity of the southern corridor" of the search area for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, Malaysia's acting transportation minister said Sunday.
"Malaysia immediately relayed these images to the Australian rescue coordination center," Hishammuddin Hussein said.
Satellite images issued by Australian and Chinese authorities have previously pointed to possible large floating objects, stoking hopes searchers may find debris.
The added images from France were coupled with the addition of new planes that have joined the search.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/

 

[21merc7]

May have been posted already, apologies if it has. Also answers many basic questions.

What happened to MH370? A pilot and a flight attendant give their views
Speculation about what really happened on missing flight 370 has been rampant. A commercial long-haul pilot and an experienced cabin crew member discuss the possibilities.

The Guardian spoke to a long-haul commercial pilot and a former Thomas Cook flight attendant – people who understand aeroplane emergency procedures and rules about access to the cockpit and communication systems – about key details in the competing theories doing the rounds about the plane's fate.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/21/what-happened-to-flight-mh370-missing-plane

 

[ToutCa]

i'm still trying to figure out of either boeing or RR (or both) would have had the data/info to ascertain if the engines on this 777 shut down properly (landed) or not (crashed/exploded)... anyone? with all this supposed monitoring going on, it should be easily done imo !!

boeing airplane health management: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_3_07/article_04_1.html

RR engine health management (see "acquire"): http://www.rolls-royce.com/about/technology/systems_tech/monitoring_systems.jsp

If those websites are to be believed, no. Neither Boeing nor RR received data after 1:07am. The plane only transmitted engine data to BOTH over its ACARS communication system, so once ACARS was disabled (between 1:07 and 1:37 am), no engine data:

Boeing:

Data is collected and downlinked via the airplane communication addressing and reporting system [ACARS].

Rolls Royce:

A critical aspect of the EHM system is the transfer of data from aircraft to ground. Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) digital data-link systems are used as the primary method of communication.

(For RR, secondary communication here refers only to passing the info along on the ground once it is received via ACARS).

While I'm not sure I believe 100% that neither Rolls Royce nor Boeing received any "engine data" info after 1:07am, if it's true the data needed ACARS to be sent, then their public story is also true.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Me too.

Have you read "Home and Away" by John Marsden? It really REALLY made me realise that if I had to seek asylum I would pay any price to keep my family safe. I see the Iranian passengers in the same way as I see people desperately trying to get to Australia in boats. They're looking for a better life. I would be too.

Ets it's a picture book. My older child brought it home from school in year 5. But so worth reading. I think it hits adults harder than it hits kids.

Indeed.. and remember Iran was (in the days of the Shah) much more "western" - people there know what life with more freedom is like. Now you can be imprisoned for any number of minor crimes, homosexuality is illegal for example. They have a bright, well educated young population whose opportunities at home have been restricted by sanctions (which, as always, cripple those who aren't the targets). Can't give you a source other than I have friends with Iranian roots!

 

[ToutCa]

Thanks ToutCa

So how much fuel would have it needed to fly 8.5 hours?

If more than the reported 16, 120 gallons then that would raise questions how it came about that the plane had the extra fuel..

Sorry if this has already been covered....

That's a good question. Aircraft range depends on altitude and speed. We know neither for MH-370, so we don't really know how much fuel it had to have yet.

We only *know* it flew for, say, 7-7.5 hours. The last ping at 7.5 hours flight-time could have been from the ground. At that point, the plane was further away from the satellite than where it was at its ping at 6.5 hours. So after the 6.5 hour ping, we know it flew further.

Thus the satellite pings show it flew continuously anywhere from (roughly) 7-8.5 hours before stopping. From what investigators have said, that appears consistent with the fuel load reported.

Remember, MH-370 sent a full ACARS report while airborne at 1:07am. If the plane had an excessive amount of fuel, this report would have thrown up immediate red flags to investigators. The report likely includes fuel levels, but even if not, the plane's engine thrust levels and general performance would make it obvious to the analysts if the plane was well over-weight with extra fuel.

No such information has been reported.

 

[Intermezzo]

I don't know. There seem to be a lot of rumors floating around regarding whether the wife and family left or not and the circumstances surrrounding all of that, so I am staying away from that for now, until further information comes.

good morning all

I agree, and I have stayed away from posting about the family...let investigators look into it and I will wait to hear verified information...

 

[Intermezzo]

morning all, fingers crossed this is something!

and lease:

 

[Intermezzo]

Indeed.. and remember Iran was (in the days of the Shah) much more "western" - people there know what life with more freedom is like. Now you can be imprisoned for any number of minor crimes, homosexuality is illegal for example. They have a bright, well educated young population whose opportunities at home have been restricted by sanctions (which, as always, cripple those who aren't the targets). Can't give you a source other than I have friends with Iranian roots!

many many ...many lol.....years ago I read a book called Out of Iran..it was about a woman growing up in the Shahs time then what happened when the Ayatollahs came and her escape...