Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #22

[cady]

But why did they want the plane to sink down with no debris? What was the point of doing all this?

I suspect that it WAS the point. I don't think it was organized terrorists, I think it was Captain Shah's last statement. If no one would ever know what happened, he would be a victim as everyone else. No one would be angry, just sad. His acclaimed reputation would remain intact. Extremely selfish though. But if he ended his life in a hotel in Beijing, all those people would be alive and dealing with their own happiness and sorrow...........but he would lose his reputation. I hope that I'm wrong, but that's what I think happened. JMO JMO

 

[Waddles]

Most of us have read these accounts. We don't know where the truth is within the rumors, but I bet intelligence agencies absolutely do by now.
The pilot's wife, friends and associates have most likely all be questioned ( interrogated?) by now.
Malaysia does NOT have the financial and physical resources to recover the black boxes, so it's in their best interests to tell the truth and release all info they have on the pilot and any other terrorists involved ( if they are involved) before the intelligence community finds out Malaysia has lied for a terrorist and cost the world millions, if not billions of dollars in search efforts.

JMO.

ah yes, very true

 

[ElleElle]

Or he turned his phone to airplane mode and then turned it off.
I don't think any calls were made AFTER the plane took off. IIRC the plane was not equipped with the mobile service.
The only call that was apparently made was from Shah and that was when the plane was still on the runway before taxi and takeoff.

BBM ~ IMO, a cell phone being at 5000 feet could ping a cell phone tower regardless if the aircraft had the mobile service or not.

 

[cady]

ah yes, very true

But what would be the accomplishment of the terrorist? OK so now we are all a bit more afraid to fly than we already were? Usually terrorist organizations publicly brag about their exploits...........no one has taken credit for this horror. It just seems so unpurposeful to me, unless the plan was such a complete failure that no one cares to brag about it. If it was a terrorist organization, they needed better flight training and geography lessons to pull it off. JMO

 

[SeekingJana]

I suspect that it WAS the point. I don't think it was organized terrorists, I think it was Captain Shah's last statement. If no one would ever know what happened, he would be a victim as everyone else. No one would be angry, just sad. His acclaimed reputation would remain intact. Extremely selfish though. But if he ended his life in a hotel in Beijing, all those people would be alive and dealing with their own happiness and sorrow...........but he would lose his reputation. I hope that I'm wrong, but that's what I think happened. JMO JMO

There is a huge difference in the psychology behind a suicidal person and a man who, with deliberation and forethought, commits mass murder.

Capt. Shah had been a pilot for many years. He had interacted with his past crews and passengers. He had seen the babies, the happy couples, the children flying alone, the elderly who required a helping hand from time to time, the disabled in wheelchairs. All of these memories of his passengers and his responsibility to them would come into play, even if subconsciously.

He also had to know that the black box data would reveal any sabotage postmortem, at which time he would be known as a mass murderer, the lowest of the low in most of the world. He would know that the loss of a triple 7 in suspicious circumstances is always an international incident.
There were people from many countries on the flight. He would know this.

I think he would have committed suicide in private before he was due at the airport if he had ever been a person with any integrity and feeling for others, and IF he was, in fact, suicidal. Of course, if he was a psychopath who had flown airplanes with his mental illness undetected for decades, then he could well have been a monster who could commit mass murder. I don't know what his personal traits were, but I do think it is important to distinguish that a person who is suicidal does NOT have the same psychological make up, thought processes or intent as a mass murderer-- unless they already had psychopathy present.

 

[ElleElle]

JMO
I seriously doubt they would not try some sort of emergency landing even if they did not have radio contact. Surely they would not just kill everyone just because they had no radio communication. There was another airstrip that the pilot knew about that had little to no traffic. It was that island airstrip we talked about and he had it on his simulator. He could have easily chose to use that one even if no radios.

How could of he landed on an airstrip if there was no communications indicating they were coming in for an emergency landing? Would there be runway lighting at this island airstrip?

Not picking on you Hatfield, just general thinking it through. :seeya:

 

[ElleElle]

Playing Devil's Advocate

I only agree with the part that he or someone else was alive to turn the cellphone on

There is no confirmation that a call was made...the report is coming from "sources"

The co-pilots cellphone connected with a tower, it re-established or re-attached to the network...


http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/call-traced-to-co-pilot-s-phone-1.562612

A different set of sources close to the investigations told the NST that checks on Fariq's phone showed that connection to the phone had been "detached" before the plane took off.

"This is usually the result of the phone being switched off.

At one point, however, when the airplane was airborne, between waypoint Igari and the spot near Penang (just before it went missing from radar), the line was 'reattached'.

"A 'reattachment' does not necessarily mean that a call was made. It can also be the result of the phone being switched on again," the sources said.


:twocents:

:facepalm: Then why do they bring it up if it's a supposed non-issue. Everything is so contrary.

 

[SeekingJana]

But what would be the accomplishment of the terrorist? OK so now we are all a bit more afraid to fly than we already were? Usually terrorist organizations publicly brag about their exploits...........no one has taken credit for this horror. It just seems so unpurposeful to me, unless the plan was such a complete failure that no one cares to brag about it. If it was a terrorist organization, they needed better flight training and geography lessons to pull it off. JMO

You have stated one reason why I believe it was a tragic set of malfunctions and catastrophic failures of the aircraft.

Using the principle of Occam's Razor, which I believe in doing until facts prove otherwise, the answer to why the plane crashed would be either:

1) Pilot error, which is not to claim pilot sabotage.
or
2) Catastrophic failure of the system, causes vary.

These are overwhelmingly the main two causes of airliner crashes.

 

[SeekingJana]

How could of he landed on an airstrip if there was no communications indicating they were coming in for an emergency landing? Would there be runway lighting at this island airstrip?

Not picking on you Hatfield, just general thinking it through. :seeya:

Most unmanned airstrips have a system of light activation by the pilot. In the US, it is to key the mike five times. In Asia, it might or might not be the same activation system, but it makes no sense to have a public airstrip which is not usable in all conditions in which lighting would be advisable ( including heavy smog, fog and heavy rains, which are prevalent in Asian countries).

I still think the most sensible island to choose to land on if there was a choice is Diego Garcia. It has a huge US military air station.

 

[ElleElle]

Here is a thought. To westerners the difference between an Italian name and an Irish name or a Spanish name or a French name seems pretty obvious. (Just to name some examples). Would an Asian person distinguish between them or just think of them all as European? I know with a lot of Asian names I have no clue which are male and which are female without being told. And I know that's the same for some Asian people if they don't know I'm female if they send me an email or something. Would I be able to tell the difference between someone's name if they were from Indonesia vs. India? China vs. Korea (I think sometimes, maybe not all the time)? Malaysia vs. Sri Lanka? One part of Africa vs. another? I kind of know what a Polynesian name sounds like but would I be able to tell Kiribati from Samoa? Maori vs. Fiji? I don't think I could.

Yes, exactly. And KL is a busy gateway airport with tons of people travelling to-from Australia and all over Asia, Europe, US.

From my travels over in that neck of the woods, most locals clump all foreigners into one. JMO.

 

[ElleElle]

But why did they want the plane to sink down with no debris? What was the point of doing all this?

To prove a 777 can fly under radar and get lost? :dunno:

 

[SeekingJana]

I found the resource which states that the procedure for an unmanned runway landing is standard, five keys of the mike with the radio on the universal UHF frequency. ( I know there are always variations, but this gives protocol).

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_Controlled_Lighting"]Pilot-controlled lighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[lawstudent]

Here is a thought. To westerners the difference between an Italian name and an Irish name or a Spanish name or a French name seems pretty obvious. (Just to name some examples). Would an Asian person distinguish between them or just think of them all as European? I know with a lot of Asian names I have no clue which are male and which are female without being told. And I know that's the same for some Asian people if they don't know I'm female if they send me an email or something. Would I be able to tell the difference between someone's name if they were from Indonesia vs. India? China vs. Korea (I think sometimes, maybe not all the time)? Malaysia vs. Sri Lanka? One part of Africa vs. another? I kind of know what a Polynesian name sounds like but would I be able to tell Kiribati from Samoa? Maori vs. Fiji? I don't think I could.

I was also thinking this but I couldn't think of how to articulate it. You put it very well. A lot of people tend to lump huge parts of the world together even when people have extremely diverse looks, names, and cultures depending on the country they come from. My high school yearbook confused our only two female Muslim students simply because they both wore headscarves. They did not resemble each other at all.

 

[ElleElle]

Yes, that's true.

But IMO European/American and Arabic-origin/Persian names are very different.

For example, yes if the passport-checker had to deterimine b/w Saudi Arabian, Syrian, Pakistani, Indian, Iranian name then yes all of what you said would be true. They would not be able to distinguish between them.

But between European/American and Arabic/Persian-origin....yes absolutely I think they could distinguish. If they cannot do that, they need some training in it. IMO.

JMO

Ok, here are the names and here are the faces. Would a Malaysian "security" person know the difference? Probably not since it's apparently a good method for Iranians to flee Iran and money to be made.

The Italian's whose passport was stolen, was because a Thai gave the passport to someone who looked like him? :waitasec:

Luigi Maraldi, 37, said he was on holiday last summer when he left his passport at an undisclosed rental shop in Patong, the resort island's tourist centre, only to discover when he later went to collect it that the shop owner had handed it over to a man who "looked similar".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-stolen-phuket

:twocents:

 

[cady]

You have stated one reason why I believe it was a tragic set of malfunctions and catastrophic failures of the aircraft.

Using the principle of Occam's Razor, which I believe in doing until facts prove otherwise, the answer to why the plane crashed would be either:

1) Pilot error, which is not to claim pilot sabotage.
or
2) Catastrophic failure of the system, causes vary.

These are overwhelmingly the main two causes of airliner crashes.

What I stated was the only purpose I can see, which is to cause the flight to disappear......... If not that, I have no clue. If it landed at Diego Garcia, I hope all are enjoying themselves with their CIA handlers.........If it turns out to be something like that I will disconnect from the internet and TV and just crawl back to my couch!! LOL JMO JMO

 

[Tiepos]

I suspect that it WAS the point. I don't think it was organized terrorists, I think it was Captain Shah's last statement. If no one would ever know what happened, he would be a victim as everyone else. No one would be angry, just sad. His acclaimed reputation would remain intact. Extremely selfish though. But if he ended his life in a hotel in Beijing, all those people would be alive and dealing with their own happiness and sorrow...........but he would lose his reputation. I hope that I'm wrong, but that's what I think happened. JMO JMO

That doesn’t really make sense with a typical suicidal mindset though. I could see if insurance was the motive, but that wouldn’t be the typical thought process of a suicidal person.

 

[ElleElle]

Stop and think about the covert intelligence ops. in the UK, US, Australia.
All 3 nations plus more are participating with tremendous resources to " find the plane" or now, just the black boxes and recover them successfully.

IF Malaysia is lying their heads off about what happened, don't you think one of the above countries would have known it by now? It's been a month.
I really think we would know by now from international news sources if Malaysia was being deceptive-- unless entities like the CIA and MI-6 are investigating Malaysian authorities covertly as well. I still think the manpower and equipment would be withdrawn. We don't support terrorism, neither does the UK or Australia.

I think Malaysian airline spokespeople and so forth simply could not make heads nor tails out of what they were seeing and not seeing on radar and released a lot of mumbo jumbo which was probably also mis-translated during the first week or so.

IDK, just something I've kept in mind as the search has progressed.

BBM ~ It's been over a month.

There are higher world powers secret ops that probably know more than the Malaysians do. :moo:

 

[ElleElle]

I suspect that it WAS the point. I don't think it was organized terrorists, I think it was Captain Shah's last statement. If no one would ever know what happened, he would be a victim as everyone else. No one would be angry, just sad. His acclaimed reputation would remain intact. Extremely selfish though. But if he ended his life in a hotel in Beijing, all those people would be alive and dealing with their own happiness and sorrow...........but he would lose his reputation. I hope that I'm wrong, but that's what I think happened. JMO JMO

Pilot suicide with elite flying skills fits the scenario at the moment.

I won't rule it out, it would be #3 on my list of theories.

 

[ElleElle]

Most unmanned airstrips have a system of light activation by the pilot. In the US, it is to key the mike five times. In Asia, it might or might not be the same activation system, but it makes no sense to have a public airstrip which is not usable in all conditions in which lighting would be advisable ( including heavy smog, fog and heavy rains, which are prevalent in Asian countries).

I still think the most sensible island to choose to land on if there was a choice is Diego Garcia. It has a huge US military air station.

This is why i'm not happy with statement from the Malaysian PM, telling the loved ones and the world that the passenger of MH370 are dead.

How far is Diego Garcia from the current search location? Not that it matters. TIA.

 

[gregjrichards]

NEW JACC (Joint Agency Coordination Centre) PRESS RELEASE - waiting to see if there will be a press conference I will post if there is any information. Thanks for all your posts and updates.

Media Release http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr020.aspx
13 April 2014—am

Up to 11 military aircraft, one civil aircraft and 14 ships will assist in today’s search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Today the Australian Maritime Safety Authority has planned a visual search area totalling approximately 57,506 square kilometres. The centre of the search areas lies approximately 2200 kilometres north west of Perth.

Today, Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shield continues more focused sweeps with the Towed Pinger Locator to try and locate further signals related to the aircraft's black boxes. The AP-3C Orions continue their acoustic search, working in conjunction with Ocean Shield. The oceanographic ship HMS Echo is also working in the area with Ocean Shield.

This work continues in an effort to narrow the underwater search area for when the Autonomous Underwater Vehicle is deployed.

There have been no confirmed acoustic detections over the past 24 hours.

The weather forecast for today is south easterly winds with isolated showers, sea swells up to one metre and visibility of five kilometres in showers.