Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #8

[ElleElle]

So IF the engine data is correct, or close to correct, does anyone know if a descent that rapid would cause cabin decompression/ basically could anybody survive that sort of speed?

Nope, the cockpit crew could have though.

 

[Waddles]

I understand the two did not know each other before the flight but curious how they got to know each other after tickets were bought by Mr Ali.

Oh, true, they did get to know each other after- photos were taken of them together, they stayed with a guy and he posted a photo of the three of them, they watched movies etc night before - I'll look for link

 

[ilovepierre]

.....the Boeing 777 is not the first jumbo jet to go missing. In 2003, a Boeing 727 went missing on a flight from Angola to Burkina Faso. The plane disappeared in the wake of an intelligence warning about al-Qaeda planning a suicide aerial attack on the U.S. consulate in Karachi. A worldwide search for the missing plane went nowhere and, despite FBI and CIA investigations, eventually the case faded from the headlines. Of course, that Boeing disappeared with only the pilot on board, rather than with a full complement of passengers.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/03/16/malaysian-plane-not-first-missing-boeing/

That could have been a possible pilot suicide or a government agency shot it down and is covering it up.
I'm not quite ready to go with that theory (pilot suicide) with MH370. It's not very common for a pilot to commit suicide with passengers on the plane-although I am sure it has happened.

 

[I Must Break You]

If this was a planned thing, then a lot of people at the airport are involved. Anyone from maintenance, security, check-in, ground crew, flight crew. Would those people really risk their jobs to disappear a plane?

Why would anyone other than the pilots or hijackers have to have been involved?

 

[ElleElle]

Why would there have to be many people involved though? could just be the pilot no?

Well, the handoff or lack of handoff at the Vietnam ATC has me wondering. :waitasec:

 

[Mahouston69]

Copying my own post over from old thread so I can add additional info.

Some of the initial reporting on the sharp climb then descent may not have been exactly correct. Read this carefully:

"The New York Times, quoting American officials and others close to the investigation, said radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appeared to show the airliner climbing to 45,000ft, higher than a Boeing 777's approved limit, soon after its disappearance from civilian radar, then making a sharp turn to the west. The radar tracking then shows the plane descending unevenly to 23,000ft, below normal cruising levels, before climbing again and flying north-west towards the Indian Ocean."

IF this information is correct, there was no 40,000ft. drop. The plane climbed to 45,000ft. - higher than approved limit, but plane obviously capable of this. The plane then apparently made the turn to the west at this altitude. Then it descended - unevenly - meaning what? It did not plummet down. It came down in steps?

From 45,000 down to 23,000 ft. is a drop of 22,000 ft. - not 40,000."
-----------------------
Here is the original article in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html?ref=world&_r=0

Interesting additional information. First, there are two sources of information reported within the article. First is the radar information from the Malaysian military. This shows the climb to 45,000ft., the turn, then:

"The radar track, which the Malaysian government has not released but says it has provided to the United States and China, showed that the plane then descended unevenly to 23,000 feet, below normal cruising levels, as it approached the densely populated island of Penang.

There, officials believe, the plane turned from a southwest-bound course, climbed to a higher altitude and flew northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean."

So what this is saying is that someone brought this plane down to a below-normal flying level as it approached Penang. The plane also executed a turn here. Penang is where the military radar station that failed to pick up this plane is located!


NOW comes the portion with the 40,000ft. drop. Different source of information, this came from the satellite:

"Investigators have also examined data transmitted from the plane’s Rolls-Royce engines that showed it descended 40,000 feet in the span of a minute, according to a senior American official briefed on the investigation. But investigators do not believe the readings are accurate because the aircraft would most likely have taken longer to fall such a distance.

“A lot of stock cannot be put in the altitude data” sent from the engines, one official said. “A lot of this doesn’t make sense.”


Why would the pilot of a "highjacked" plane descend from 45,000ft. down to 23,000ft. at the very time he was coming near to a known radar installation? Did he WANT the radar to pick him up?

I think he possibly ...did want radar to pick him up.
4 theories I'm stuck on..

1. disabled/killed all the passengers so they wouldn't die 'horrifically' by elevating to 45,000 ft and wanted the 'corrupt' Malaysian Govt. to engage and shoot the plane down to put a spotlight on their corruption. ( I'm skeptical about this theory)

2. was flying obviously in an extremely erratic way on purpose after shutting off transponders, or being forced to shut off transponders to physically disable the hijacker(s) and in an attempt to 'signal' the military radar tower that the plane had been hijacked and had no way to communicate.

3. was shot down by military surface to air missiles, when attempts at communication went unanswered (attempts to communicate might ping the satellite, hours after transponder is shut off), and was then covered up by fake ineptness (I don't believe maylasia is really that incompetent) and diversion to gulf of Thailand searches until all signs of shot down wreckage could be 'cleaned' up. But there are several 'witnesses'..

4. or was eventually flown down in the Malacca Straight/Indian ocean purposely.

After 8 days, everything has most definitely sunk or drifted way out to the Indian Ocean. My gut says there isn't anyone left alive that was on that plane. IMO

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/...s-after-it-disappeared-ap-source-no-it-didnt/

 

[ilovepierre]

Why would there have to be many people involved though? could just be the pilot no?

Could be.
But security workers could be involved too. Pay them a little extra on the side to allow certain things through security and onto the plane. If this plane was remotely hijiacked, a maintenance worker could have installed a device that allowed the plane to be controlled via a remote on the ground.

Not that I think anyone at the airport was really involved, but you just never know!

 

[Waddles]

The reports I've seen say the transponder was turned off one minute after the "All right, good night" transmission. If it had been turned of prior to that, Malaysia would have known there was a problem before handing the plane over to VN. Let me look for a link...I'll be back.

14.47 One of today's more substantial developments has been confirmation at the Kuala Lumpur press conference that the plane's tracking systems - known as ACARS [Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System] and the transponder - were switched off before the pilot send his final radio communication to air traffic control, in which he said "Alright, good night" without hinting at any trouble.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-plane-crash-live.html

 

[MEC]

Does anyone know if the plane had wi-fi on board? My spouse flies for AA, and I know on all their 777s there is wi-fi for the passengers.

(Apologies if this has been asked before, I'm just so excited there is a thread here for my newest obsession - I have a pretty big stake in airline safety and profit - that I just want to dive right in!)

 

[Aviator]

I believe the Boeing 777 was pushed to the max, but did not explode as "designed" from extreme the altitude ups/downs.

Someone highly skilled was able to pull this off. This is not an easy task.

It would like driving 120 MPH on a curvy, hilly road for us, one would need alot of practice. all moo

Not highly skilled, if you know the limitations of the airplane you can climb it at MAX AoA (Angle of Attack) at a set speed and it will climb. Same with descending. It's not difficult.

Sorry I know I am a Pilot, but it really isn't that hard. Hence why 9/11 happened. Passenger aircraft are designed to carry people safely and automatically, not to enhance the skills of the pilot - in fact it can make it worse, see Air France 447.

 

[Softail]

I made a poll here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238233"]What do you think happened to Malaysia Flight370? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



Write in votes are allowed, and you can pick more than one choice.

 

[CARIIS]

"Georgia"]Auburn Calloway, a Federal Express employee facing possible dismissal for lying about his previous flying experience, boarded the scheduled flight as a deadheading passenger with a guitar case carrying several hammers and a speargun. He intended to disable the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder before take-off and, once airborne, kill the crew using the blunt force of the hammers so their injuries would appear consistent with an accident rather than a hijacking. The speargun would be a last resort. He would then crash the aircraft while just appearing to be an employee killed in an accident. This would make his family eligible for a $2.5 million life insurance policy paid by Federal Express.
]

Documentary on the flight....21:12 if you don’t want to watch whole thing

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_Tyubv7Gg"]Air Crash Investigation - Fight for Your Life S03E04 (Plane Hijacking) - YouTube[/ame]


Federal Express Flight 705 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url

 

[jilly]

Does anyone know if the plane had wi-fi on board? My spouse flies for AA, and I know on all their 777s there is wi-fi for the passengers.

(Apologies if this has been asked before, I'm just so excited there is a thread here for my newest obsession - I have a pretty big stake in airline safety and profit - that I just want to dive right in!)

I've heard on CNN that the plane was not equipped with Wi-fi.

 

[popsicle]

Slightly more the an hour before the dawn of a new day, will it brings us answers?

 

[Isabelle]

The Transponder was turned off Before the "All right, good night" making it sound a bit more ominous

Wouldn't ATC on the ground have received an alert/alarm when the transponder was turned off?

 

[Nana]

What I was suggesting is that there was no need for hijackers on board, if something is pre-programmed or remote controlled. A range of people have access to the planes in maintenance, inspection, calibration and all manner of things I'd have no idea about. People who are plotting things look for this access, and act when ready.

I posted on this in #7 like I said think drone!

 

[kalekona]

The reports I've seen say the transponder was turned off one minute after the "All right, good night" transmission. If it had been turned of prior to that, Malaysia would have known there was a problem before handing the plane over to VN. Let me look for a link...I'll be back.

This is what I had heard yesterday- what you say also makes sense- not much else in this whole thing does though.

http://huff.to/1p0rpLY

"Sunday Mr. Hishammuddin, who is also acting minister of transportation, gave his brief answer: “Yes, it was disabled before,” he said".

 

[catatonia]

Does anyone know if the plane had wi-fi on board? My spouse flies for AA, and I know on all their 777s there is wi-fi for the passengers.

(Apologies if this has been asked before, I'm just so excited there is a thread here for my newest obsession - I have a pretty big stake in airline safety and profit - that I just want to dive right in!)

Someone posted in an older thread that an expert on CNN said the MH370 (777-200ER) has no Wi-Fi on board.

 

[panthera]

I understand the two did not know each other before the flight but curious how they got to know each other after tickets were bought by Mr Ali.

It was my understanding the two tickets were purchased at at travel agency by Mr. Ali the day before the flight. That would not give them much time to get to know each other, even if they met that day, aside from the photo of them together.

MOO

 

[popsicle]

Jon Ostrower ‏@jonostrower 20m
Aerospace leaders gather in San Diego tonight. #ISTAT14 opens w/ open bar reception. Not hard to guess the topic of conversation. #MH370

https://twitter.com/jonostrower