Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[SouthAussie]

"CNN reporting preliminary US Intel analysis has concluded Flight 17 was most likely taken down by missile fired by pro-Russia separatists"


"10:37pm: Foreign Minister Bishop says she was told earlier today she could not speak to anyone in the Russian foreign ministry, describing it as "an extraordinary response" given the international ramifications of this situation.

She went on to say she had been on the phone all day to international counterparts to express her condolences, and received those also for Australia's 28 victims.

It was completely "devastating" to hear the crash scene may not have been secured, and that a ceasefire may have been rejected."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37p8S6nf1

 

[zwiebel]

'13:46: Malaysia Airlines says in a statement that "at all times, MH17 was in airspace approved by the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization)". MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft through Ukrainian airspace, but was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft, the statement adds.'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

 

[SouthAussie]

Brits have just announced they are sending a team of investigators to Ukraine.

Dutch have already sent one, I saw an article yesterday somewhere that said the FBI were on their way to assist, and I am guessing the Australians are on their way too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ne-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

Yes, our Prime Minister said earlier that Australian Federal Police were on their way.

 

[Elley Mae]

WTOP ‏@WTOP 14m
Next of kin get $5K per passenger from Malaysian Airlines, says Huib Gorter, Vice President of Malaysian Airlines http://bit.ly/1yBeYgl


WTOP ‏@WTOP 12m
Malaysian Airlines VP says it wasn't the only airline flying in the region. http://bit.ly/1yBfomR


WTOP ‏@WTOP 12m
"It was a tragic incident and it could have happened to any of us," Malaysian Airlines VP says of planes in area. http://bit.ly/1yBfomR


WTOP ‏@WTOP 10m
The #MH17 was up to date on its maintenance checks. It was last checked and OK'd on July 11. http://bit.ly/1zNgpd4

Since I don't have the bold option, I c/p

Malaysian Airlines VP says it wasn't the only airline flying in the region.

Why do they have to say chit that makes them think them being there was not the problem. It's the same thing to me if he had said, Well he took my crayons so I took his. Or, Well he was going 120 mph so I did too. Just wish some would just shut the hell up. What's wrong with people.

 

[zwiebel]

'13:50: Malaysia Airlines has updated the list of nationalities of those on the plane, increasing the number of Dutch nationals from 173 to 189. There were also 44 passengers from Malaysia, 27 from Australia, 12 from Indonesia, nine from the UK, four from Belgium, four from Germany, three from the Philippines, one from Canada and one from New Zealand. Four passengers' identities still need to be verified.'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

 

[zwiebel]

I don't understand why the airline's having a problem with identities again? I wonder if it will be a repeat of the confusion with the 'Italian' victim on the last plane?

 

[Elley Mae]

'13:46: Malaysia Airlines says in a statement that "at all times, MH17 was in airspace approved by the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization)". MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft through Ukrainian airspace, but was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft, the statement adds.'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

I don't believe that. They do have a way with words. Like I said before just because they were flying 1000 above the restricted area of 32,000 feet does not mean they were immune from being hit by a missile.

 

[jellybeanz]

Well, yes, we have widespread deprivation and poverty here at home, which is why I find it so interesting that people always assume that we should ride to the rescue of any nation/population experiencing poverty and deprivation themselves. And I TOTALLY agree with your point that human life is priceless, and no amount of compensation makes up for the loss of a loved one. Still, to compensate the families is at least a tacit admission of responsibility, as we all in our lawsuit-prone society have seen.

I'll assume that these people are the ones elected to run our affairs and spend the vast tax revenues in our name.
I really don't think we ride to the rescue (go to war?) in these instances for humanitarian reasons, there are usually uglier ulterior motives, like oil or to simply keep the big military machine turning.

Anyway, I will ask you this question then, given the preciousness of human life: what SHOULD be the response of so-called civilized nations to acts that lead to loss of civilian lives, especially when those civilians were just 'passing by' and were in no way involved in the conflict? Should we just sadly shake our heads and say it couldn't have been avoided? Should we abandon any attempt at justice for the lost lives just because our own hands haven't been historically totally clean? Should the present-day U.S. not attempt to intervene in any present-day cases of human trafficking/slavery because our own national hands aren't historically clean? I really wonder what people think should be done in these cases and would appreciate your thoughts.

Well, there are already procedures in place via the UN War Crimes Commission to investigate these horrible incidents.
USA, UK, Australia, Netherlands, Russia and all other countries affected have all came out giving backing to such an enquiry.

I would like to say I have faith that from all the information gathered, we would see the people responsible taken to task and punished accordingly, but I am sceptical. There are greater forces at work here now.

I can only hope that that this incident isn't used as a political tool to cause further deaths on a much larger scale in an international war.

 

[Isabelle]

Wow! The missile could travel 30 Miles in
40 seconds. That's unbelievable.


"Almost 200 bodies have been recovered, but the crash scene is so large, it's unknown how long it will take to recover the remaining victims"
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/39158...for-downing-malaysia-airlines-mh17/index.html

Yes. That missile travels faster than the speed of sound. To hit a moving target as far as 30k ft away, I would think that speed is necessary.

 

[zwiebel]

So the stuff Russia Today wrote about there being an Israeli victim wasn't true, it looks like. I think it was probably someone of the Jewish faith, so they just called that person an Israeli.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't understand why the airline's having a problem with identities again? I wonder if it will be a repeat of the confusion with the 'Italian' victim on the last plane?

I think one of our 28 nationals was a dual citizen (Aussie/Dutch, I think) flying on the other passport .. so some are still saying 27 Aussies, while we are saying 28.

 

[zwiebel]

'13.50 Sir Malcolm Rifkind, chairman of the Intelligence and Security Committee, has suggested that the missile which destroyed flight MH17 could have been fired by Soviet special forces.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ne-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

 

[zwiebel]

'13:57: Huib Gorter, Malaysia Airlines' Europe vice-president, has said relatives will be flown to Kiev at "an appropriate moment".'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

 

[Isabelle]

Seriously? You think the president is just fooling around having fun and doesn't care about this? Come on, people. That's just not reasonable. No president would act that way and none are able to. Being president is an all time consuming, 24 hour a day job. There is no time off. They are always on call, always being briefed and always making decisions during waking hours. All of them. Even the ones we didn't vote for.

These aren't teenaged fast food workers who get to that level of government. Only super hard workers get there.

I agree. Many complain about our President just because they don't like him. Remember how quiet it was when Osama Bin Laden was taken down? I believe there is a whole lot going on behind closed doors and it really is not all the worlds business to know.

 

[SouthAussie]

'13:57: Huib Gorter, Malaysia Airlines' Europe vice-president, has said relatives will be flown to Kiev at "an appropriate moment".'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

Why? I don't understand what this will achieve.

 

[zwiebel]

I just heard on the radio a delegation's travelling out with the express purpose of getting back those black boxes. Didn't catch who they are though.

 

[zwiebel]

Why? I don't understand what this will achieve.

Yes, I know. I didn't understand why relatives of the missing flight were taken to hotels, out of the comfort of their homes, either. I hope to heck they don't take them to the crash site.

 

[zwiebel]

Brit Prime Minister has just called head of the UN. Wants a strong commitment to investigate this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/490119028615430144

 

[Supernovae]

Whatever else he may be, Putin isn't a "nut," he's a hard nosed geopolitical power player. This article offers a very interesting analysis of the situation in Ukraine before this happened:

http://pando.com/2014/05/30/war-ner...-is-very-simple-rational-and-straightforward/

Whoever actually fired the missile would have had to have had some level of training and guidance, probably covertly by Russian secret or special forces, but they could well have been a local hot head or militia member. Putin's overstepped the mark with this and probably realises it behind the cold exterior. The intention was almost certainly never to have >200 Western Europeans and Anglosphere dead, that level of international incident doesn't serve his interests.

 

[SouthAussie]

So sad ... among our 28 we had a nun, a teacher, a pathologist, a doctor ... and all of the victims well-loved and held dear. I am sure the same holds true for all the affected nationalities.

Victoria: 10 victims including Albert and Maree Rizk, Liam Davison and his wife Frankie, Mary and Gerry Menke. Elaine Teoh, a Melbourne University student from Malaysia and her partner, Dutch national Emiel Mahler, are also among the victims.
Queensland: 7 victims including pathologist Dr Roger Guard and his GP wife Jill Guard, Helena Sidelik, and Howard and Susan Horder. There are unconfirmed reports that the two unidentified victims are from Brisbane's west.
WA: 7 victims, including Nick Norris and his three young grandchildren Mo, Evie and Otis Maslin.
NSW: 3 victims, Sydney nun Philomene Tiernan, and retired Illawarra couple Michael and Carol Clancy.
Northern Territory: 1 victim, young teacher Emma Bell.

:rose:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...sian-border-20140718-3c4nl.html#ixzz37pE2I3fx