Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

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Tweet from @airlivenet - 5h

Sad have reported that 668 passengers and 37 crews lost their lives in 2014 #MH370 #MH17 #GE222 #AH5017
basyjara.jpg

http://t.co/th3DGofGnJ

http://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/492542533302353921

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Well, MH370 is still in an "unknown" status.

Part of me believes it will be found, but not down deep in the S Indian Ocean.

JMO
 
De Volkskrant reports:

Deal met separatisten over missie bij rampplek MH17
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/3152...aratisten-over-missie-bij-rampplek-MH17.dhtml

Translation:

Deal with separatists on mission at diaster-area

Thanks to agreements with the separatists investigations on the site of the air disaster can be done safely as of today. Under pressure by the possible arrival of an armed international mission, the rebels allow the investigators access, under the supervision of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). Diplomatic sources confirm this to De Volkskrant.

Forty unarmed Dutch military police and over twenty forensic researchers will start their work in Eastern Ukraine. According to Prime Minister Rutte the intelligence services estimate that the work can be done unarmed.
A few hours earlier in Kiev FM Timmermans (Foreign Affairs) said: "I have the impression that finally also the separatists became aware that it is a matter of humanity to ensure that all human remains can be salvaged. My cautious impression is that there will be cooperation from the separatists. "

(...)

He emphasized that his is a cautious estimate about a situation that is extremely fragile.

(...)

The OSCE has been mediating between The Netherlands and the separatists for a week already. The trust has grown to the point that dozens of unarmed Dutch are allowed on location. The Swiss Alexander Hug plays a pivotal role in the process; he also persuaded the rebels to allow the departure of the bodybags to Kharkov.

Well done Mr Hug! That is excellent news.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I cried my eyes when I saw the hearses and RESPECT. Those poor souls deserved respect more than anything.
 
Ongoing discussion here over safety and no-fly zones as well.
Many airlines had been evading the region, and others seem to have had no clue at all, or a different interpretation of the dangers.
Someone on tv said that security info should never be used as a commercial advantage.
Well, that wasn't just 'someone' obviously, please accept my apologies, Mr. .... I did catch your name and then I forgot.

It's been a long week and the week is not over yet.

RBBM....

:grouphug:




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ABC radio interview with Squadron Leader Dean Bolton this morning - he is one of the RAAF pilots flying the remains of the MH17 victims to the Netherlands. ….


DEAN BOLTON: At the moment, the guys are departing out of Eindhoven Air Base, where we are now. And it's a three-hour flight down to the Ukraine. And from the Ukraine we load up cargo and human remains and return to Eindhoven for another three-hour flight and then take part in the ramp ceremony here at Eindhoven Airport.

DEAN BOLTON: It's a big task. It's a very sad task. But all the folks deployed over here take great pride in taking part in it and just being able to help out with getting the people back to their families.

DEAN BOLTON: Probably the most challenging moment has been meeting the families after the ceremony here at Eindhoven. And yeah, that's been certainly quite a touching moment.

DEAN BOLTON: They are thankful for what we are here doing. They're obviously going through untold grief but, you know, their only really response has been thankful that we're here.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2014/s4054359.htm
 
Prime Minister Tony Abbott's plan to deploy armed police to the MH17 crash site risks increasing tension in the Ukrainian territory held by Russian-backed rebels, according to international political analysts.

"They must be nuts," Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern Europe at the Berlin bureau of the German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. "It's a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists and the Russians."

Karl-Heinz Kamp, the academic director at the German government's Federal Academy for Security Policy in Berlin, said the Australian military is experienced and wouldn't take risks, especially in a situation "where some of the rebels are drunk."

"The only way the Australians are going to send armed officers into rebel territory is if there's some kind of backroom deal," Kamp said. "It's totally far-fetched but if it's true, maybe the Russians are under such pressure to do something they told the rebels 'you have to accept this."


http://www.smh.com.au/world/austral...te-analysts-20140726-zx3mo.html#ixzz38Xw6dEeZ
 
Tears flowed yesterday night as many paid their respects during a touching interfaith prayer ceremony for the victims of downed Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH17.

Organised by Malaysia Airlines, the prayers saw about 400 gathered at the MAS training academy in Kelana Jaya, consisting of MAS crew members, relatives of MH370 crew members and family members of Malaysians who died aboard MH17.

"We are all very sad over the loss of the two aircraft but we are still doing our best to be professional."

"Everyone is trying their best to carry out their duties professionally, but in our hearts, we are feeling the loss of our close friends and colleagues."

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/a-teary-night-in-remembrance-of-mh17-victims
 
"Donetsk, Ukraine: There has been no formal response from eastern Ukraine rebel separatists to plans for a foreign force, possibly several-hundred strong, to investigate and secure the MH17 crash site. But signals the rebels sent on Friday suggest a reluctance to have more than 20 or 30 foreigners on their turf.

On a day that some looted items – including bank and credit cards and passports – were mysteriously returned to areas of the site where investigators likely would find them, the rebels intimated to European conflict monitors that they wanted the debris to be cleared in a matter of days and without a major foreign presence."

http://www.theage.com.au/world/rebe...in-ukraine-20140726-zx3l1.html?skin=text-only
 
Swiss soldiers are nothing to sniff at, though some people think so. One of them is my nephew.

RBBM....

ITA... Please relay my respect and thanks!



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In stark contrast to the Ukrainian 'beauty' (who hates everything Ukrainian she said, before having to delete her social media after the outrage she caused) who boasted about using looted mascara online, there is a very moving Wall Street Journal article here about the local villagers around the scene of the crash.

As I always suspected, these are self sufficient, strong and practical people. The local miners are accustomed to dealing with deaths and accidents, and the protocols involved. They were ready and able to help store passengers bodies and possessions safely, but waited in vain for any directions from the Russian backed rebels.

' "In mines, you don't remove a body until they investigate it," he says.'

'While most of the bodies have been removed from the crash site, the roughly 6,500 residents of the villages remain traumatized by what they saw, trapped by debris and passengers' belongings scattered across the local landscape. Pieces of other people's lives haunt their own.'

They are absolutely heartbroken. But they have managed to retrieve a large pile of belongings and the lady mayor, whose husband is a miner and helped find bodies, is keeping them safe.

'On Thursday, an elderly woman showed up at her office in tears and handed over a doll with the name Emma stitched in pink across its shirt. The woman was digging potatoes. Emma turned up instead.

Ms. Voloshina is keeping the doll in a purple plastic bag on top of a large pile of passenger belongings that villagers keep finding every day: suitcases, wallets, a USB cord, and on and on.

"We're keeping them, we're waiting," Ms. Voloshina she says. She vows to get Emma home.'

The article is long but well worth reading. Note how locals describe the emergency workers who rushed from Donetsk to put out the fires, while the rebels simply stood above them with guns, doing nothing. The photo shows wreckage in the mayor's relative's cabbage patch, a week after the crash.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/afte...and-heartbreak-in-ukraine-villages-1406335532
 

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I also think it shouldn't be seen as uncaring that locals are trying to harvest crops in the fields where the wreckage landed - I think if they don't salvage what they can now, some will really struggle in winter.
 
Dutch - French photographer Pierre Crom is at the location of the crash


Pierre Crom ‏@PierreCrom 29 min.



A Australian couple are looking for their missed daughter on the #MH17 crash site

BBM


This must be the couple who believe that their daughter was strapped to her chair, survived the crash and is still alive ........
 
Dutch - French photographer Pierre Crom is at the location of the crash


Pierre Crom ‏@PierreCrom 29 min.



A Australian couple are looking for their missed daughter on the #MH17 crash site

BBM


This must be the couple who believe that their daughter was strapped to her chair, survived the crash and is still alive ........

Heaven help them. I hope there are some kind people to care for them, and I hope and pray their daughter is one of those whose body can be identified quickly.
 
NRCQ reports:

DUTCH AIRLINER KLM WAS NOT INFORMED ABOUT DANGERS
MH17 was a combined flight of KLM and Malaysian Airlines

http://www.nrcq.nl/2014/07/26/klm-was-niet-geinformeerd-over-gevaar-boven-oost-oekraine

Translation:

Dutch Airline KLM was unaware of the presence of advanced missile systems in Eastern Ukraine. That some other companies had been evading the area for some time was not known by the company. This says KLM president & CEO Camiel Eurlings.

Last Thursday a Malaysia Airlines plane was shot down in Eastern Ukraine, where 298 people (194 Dutch) died. Some of the passengers bought tickets through KLM.

Research conducted by NRC Handelsblad in The Netherlands shows that no one knows who should have warned the airline. In the United States and in the United Kingdom the airlines aviation authorities warn since april of the risks of flying above the area. In a special message the American aviation authority spoke of a "potentially dangerous situation" in Ukraine for passenger aircraft. For American companies it became therefore forbidden to fly in three different parts of Ukraine.

NATO also issued a public warning, in late June. Lieutenant Colonel Jay Janzen of the NATO says: "It was common knowledge that a dozen Ukrainian military aircraft was shot down in Eastern Ukraine. So the danger was clear. " According to Janzen, the transfer of this information to airlines is a "responsibility" of, among others, "national aviation authority".
Intelligence services In Netherlands authorities are pointing the finger at each other. KLM says that a similar aviation authority is part of the Inspection for Human Environment and Transport, which in turn refers to the intelligence services. But the AIVD and terror fighter NCTV do not see it as their legal task to actively seek information for Dutch Airlines abroad. The MIVD don't want to respond, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs either. "That's confidential," a spokesman said.

Preseident & CEO Eurlings of KLM: "I was not aware of information about companies that behaved differently. It was simply declared a safe route. The perception was that you would be safe on an altitude of 10 km altitude, it turns out that this is no longer true with this kind of sophisticated rocket installations. "

A spokesman for KLM: "If we had received any indications that the area was unsafe, then we would not have not flown."

Authorities around the world plead for a better and reliable information to airlines by Governments.

BBM
 
I also think it shouldn't be seen as uncaring that locals are trying to harvest crops in the fields where the wreckage landed - I think if they don't salvage what they can now, some will really struggle in winter.

They have to survive. Life goes on and they have long hard winters there. They have to prepare for that or they starve and there's no sense in letting that happen.
 
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