Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[ChatteringBirds]

Nora's poor parents. I don't think they inaccurately described her abilities to LE. There's a difference between walking on a level airport floor and walking down stairs, opening a closed and raised window, climbing out of it, and navigating rainforest terrain.

While I do think it's possible she crawled rather than walked, and that she hid during the searching, you do have to account for some things, like how and why she would open that window, how she left the house without waking anyone, how she got to the location she was found, how the shaman was able to predict when she'd be found?

I hope her parents are able to find out new information through the rest of the inquest.

 

[Clair Louise]

Nora's poor parents. I don't think they inaccurately described her abilities to LE. There's a difference between walking on a level airport floor and walking down stairs, opening a closed and raised window, climbing out of it, and navigating rainforest terrain.

While I do think it's possible she crawled rather than walked, and that she hid during the searching, you do have to account for some things, like how and why she would open that window, how she left the house without waking anyone, how she got to the location she was found, how the shaman was able to predict when she'd be found?

I hope her parents are able to find out new information through the rest of the inquest.

BBM. I think that it would be far easier to leave by herself and not waken anyone than it would be if she were taken by someone and not wake anyone.

 

[crhedBngr]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

My Opinion Only . . .

I think Nora's parents were sick with worry; therefore, they couldn't express Nora's special needs clearly at that time.

I went back to an earlier post, trying to find Nora's special needs described in more detail. Found this post: Found Deceased - Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #1

From the above-linked post:

Who is Nora?

Nora Anne Quoirin is 15-years-old, 5ft 1” tall, of slight build, with shoulder-length wavy dark blonde hair and blue eyes. She is of Irish-French descent and was travelling on an Irish passport. Nora was born with holoprosencephaly and has limited balance and co-ordination. She enjoys walks with her family though has difficulty doing so. She is not independent in that she cannot manage buttons and struggles to wash her hair. At her school, she is in the process of learning to ride a bicycle (Lucie Blackman Trust, 9 Aug 2019).

So, maybe Nora could walk well enough on smoother surfaces, but had issues navigating rougher terrain.

Speaking strictly for myself, if I got lost and was wandering in jungle-like surroundings at night, with no torch (flashlight), I'd have tripped and fallen many times.

JMVHO.

 

[Laughing]

Holoprosencephaly - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

Interesting!

 

[Chiatos]

Not necessarily. Tropical forest has a soft floor, mosses etc. Natives often walk barefoot.

As regards mosquitos, this must have been a minimum problem as the houses were open plan.

I think we need to take a middle road - the parents stating there was no way Nora would be capable within the circumstances and conditions they had experienced and known with her - and a Nora who was exposed to very different circumstances and who possibly dared to do something different.

The images of the jungle and jungle paths around the Dusun haven't shown moss on the ground.
Natives have adapted to walk barefoot and their feet have thick skin.

 

[Chiatos]

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Things should be taken into context. It is my understanding that what the parents meant was that Nora wasn't able to walk long distances by herself, independently. So not only physically speaking, but also psychically.

At the airport she was always in company of her family. She trawled her suitcase that can also be used as a sort of "walking aid". She held on to her suitcase, that would have given her some physical support.
Mental support came from the company she was with.
And: as someone else has pointed out already, the floor at the airport is much smoother that a jungle's ground.

(We should get to see that footage too.....)

 

[Ruthbullock]

This shows lots of footage from the resort- it’s a Malaysian new report about the coroner visiting the site prior to the inquest starting.
I was actually looking for the court clip showing the CCTV (and this news site has it with subtitled English), BBC news states the footage was shown in court. I found the part where it was discussed and shown on the white screen- but you can’t actually view the footage.

 

[Officer Dibble]

This shows lots of footage from the resort- it’s a Malaysian new report about the coroner visiting the site prior to the inquest starting.
I was actually looking for the court clip showing the CCTV (and this news site has it with subtitled English), BBC news states the footage was shown in court. I found the part where it was discussed and shown on the white screen- but you can’t actually view the footage.

That made me feel really sad for Nora watching that. We now know her balance was affected so it must have been tough to move around rocky areas or thick bush.

 

[Chiatos]

The sniffer / SAR dog that was brought in to search Nora, was suffering from back pain.

.............@#!$??&@

Tracker dog used to search for Nora Anne had health problems, inquest told

 

[Cascadia Mount]

This shows lots of footage from the resort- it’s a Malaysian new report about the coroner visiting the site prior to the inquest starting.
I was actually looking for the court clip showing the CCTV (and this news site has it with subtitled English), BBC news states the footage was shown in court. I found the part where it was discussed and shown on the white screen- but you can’t actually view the footage.

That explains a lot, thanks for posting!

 

[Seni]

This also crossed my mind and why not just tell the truth?
The genie is a local.
The indigenous should understand that the girl has parents looking for her.
Indigenous have children of their own so they should understand.
But we don't know for certain if this is the case of nora's disappearance.

The genie is a spirit. The shaman can communicate with the spirit, he/she is the connection between what is earthly and what is spiritual.

As stated before, this communication often occurs when there is a perceived unnatural balance. Something or someone has acted against nature or something unnatural has ocurred.
What the shaman can do is offer prayers to the spirit to try to amend the wrongdoing.

It is no more complicated or sinister than that, IMO. My interpretation was that it was an expression of the community's solidarity with and concern about Nora.

 

[Seni]

The images of the jungle and jungle paths around the Dusun haven't shown moss on the ground.
Natives have adapted to walk barefoot and their feet have thick skin.

Ok.
Typically the forest floor is rather springy, humid and kind to the feet. It is composed of short, soft plants such as ferns, mosses and fungi also are common. Plants struggle for light, some trees manage to grow high if they capture some light filtering through from the canopy. Others remain small and are regularly covered by falling of leaf litter and other forest debris.

The canopy also protects from sunburn. The lower leaves tend to hold moisture and rain water which you can draw on and sip when walking.

In past threads there are local people involved in the search who speculated that Nora may have made her way through shallow streams, which could be quite logical.

All IMO.

 

[kittythehare]

No but as I said my best friend teaches in an international school there and supports the lions at seremban and has done for the last five years since we moved in different directions from our teaching posts in Germany. I also have two other friends who teach there. All talk about their lives and I have talked to them multiple times, all share photos of their daily lives on SM. I would still say the British equivalent is a psychic and yes we have lots of them in Yorkshire.
If you look at some of the initial posts last summer, I shared some of the local
Lions links.

Shamans and psychics are not the same or even remotely similar.

 

[evilwise]

Shamans and psychics are not the same or even remotely similar.

Thank you, I didn't want to be the one to go there but yes psychics are new-age mystics while shamans are spiritual representatives of ancient native animistic beliefs and I think those beliefs might lead some practitioners to react in ways we can't easily understand to encountering a naked white nonverbal teenage girl in the rainforest. Not even necessarily with malice but maybe in ways that could explain how she went uninjured but starved to death.

 

[Cascadia Mount]

Someone has said on here before that the most useful thing would be to hear from adults that knew Nora at her school. They would know how independant she really was.

 

[Chiatos]

The genie is a spirit. The shaman can communicate with the spirit, he/she is the connection between what is earthly and what is spiritual.

As stated before, this communication often occurs when there is a perceived unnatural balance. Something or someone has acted against nature or something unnatural has ocurred.
What the shaman can do is offer prayers to the spirit to try to amend the wrongdoing.

It is no more complicated or sinister than that, IMO. My interpretation was that it was an expression of the community's solidarity with and concern about Nora.

I know that the genie is a spirit according to native beliefs (reality / philosophy / world).
Nora disappeared:
- by her own doing
- or by the doing of someone else
- or a combination of both

 

[Chiatos]

Ok.
Typically the forest floor is rather springy, humid and kind to the feet. It is composed of short, soft plants such as ferns, mosses and fungi also are common. Plants struggle for light, some trees manage to grow high if they capture some light filtering through from the canopy. Others remain small and are regularly covered by falling of leaf litter and other forest debris.

The canopy also protects from sunburn. The lower leaves tend to hold moisture and rain water which you can draw on and sip when walking.

In past threads there are local people involved in the search who speculated that Nora may have made her way through shallow streams, which could be quite logical.

All IMO.

Here are some images of the jungle and paths around the Dusun:

Jungle trek

 

[Ruthbullock]

Here are some images of the jungle and paths around the Dusun:

Jungle trek

It takes 2-3 hours to do that waterfall hike. We know they were planning on doing it- that point alone had always brought a question mark over her mobility. My daughter is far more mobile than Nora (although she struggles to wheel a suitcase) and we could never attempt something like that- maybe if it was 10 minutes away and we took half a day to walk it, but not two hours worth of paths like that.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Shamans and psychics are not the same or even remotely similar.

IMO I have been told here on WS (not this thread) and tend to agree that LE in the west sometimes consult with local psychics because the psychics may hear through the community facts about the case and express those facts to LE in a way that thus keeps it all anonymous yet helps solve the case.

It seems to me some here wonder if the shaman played a similar role in this case. I don't have an opinion but I do wonder as well.

Psychics and shamans are different from each other, but maybe both can pass information on to LE in a way that the community / locals accept?

MOO.

 

[Ruthbullock]

We will agree to disagree on interpretations of shaman and psychics. They were however not consulted by the police during the search, but rather sent WhatsApp messages to the uncle with the claims , who then sent them directly to the close family who then shared them with their liaison officer.
Nora Anne's inquest: Information received from 'bomoh and shaman' | New Straits Times
LE then looked into it, (I’m sure more out of courtesy and to placate the family than anything else). With regards tribes (which you directly link to the shaman and suggest they live around the resort)- there is only one fully indigenous tribe with a shaman remaining in Malaysia and its nowhere near the resort. They are scarce and becoming scarcer.
I appreciate some people feel that Shamans and tribes have hidden Nora, it’s just my opinion on it, and the inquest could find that there was a secret tribe hiding her- but I’m not convinced.