Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #6

[Ardoch]

Noras mother’s voice was recorded and played in the search, Noras mother was looking after the siblings, so didn’t join in the searches. I have often wondered if she may have heard the tape, but not seeing her mother there may have stopped her making herself known even if the search party was near.
I do think there is potential she got lost, but hid or stayed out of sight, not necessarily deliberately, but more because she didn’t know how to respond to the situation and therefore rather than jumping up as the majority of us would whilst silently thanking the world for finding us, I’m not convinced Nora would have reacted that way at all.

Raises the possibility that N may have heard her voice but couldn't see her. I'm saying that as a remote guess as I haven't studied the maps or terrain around where N was found.

 

[Chiatos]

1:00-1:45
Sebastian's testimony, continued:
- it would have been impossible for Nora to open the window and to climb out of the window
- Nora never left from their front door in GB
- It's extremely unlikely she exited through the first door, but not impossible. But she would have realised that she would have stepped outside the house.
- It's probably impossible for Nora to have exited through the broken fences without seriously injuring herself
- The area where Nora was found had been searched 4 times in total. That raises questions. Nora wouldn't have the stamina to move around for so many days
- The family made use of the "bathroom on the left"
- A week before the 3rd of August the mother (must look up her name) travelled to Australia and to Singapore
- Nora had wet her bed 2-3 times the week prior to the journey
- Usually Nora would not wake up after wetting her bed. She would notice the next morning
- Nora did not wet herself during the flight
- During the flight Nora went to the toilet by herself
- The trip from KL to the Dusun took 45 mins to an hour
- The Quoirins arrived at the Dusun between 12 and 12.30

 

[kittythehare]

I've been thinking about and listening to Nora's parents all day.
I was reassured they had a lot of support at the time, good and loyal friends and family.
Nora's mother stated they have the full autopsy, I'm not sure whether that is the British or malaysian, I assume the former because it was stated that the court has not yet seen it.
But they both did see it and they know what it contains.
As both referred to her un-wounded feet I am assuming the autopsy may well have confirmed the lack of damage to her feet also.
People close to a case will be upset and may imagine things as a result but a pathologist will not and he will certainly have examined them for wear and tear consistent with terrain and conditions.

At 2.52 in the mother's testimony, she refers to kidnapping as a spiritual act.
She goes into more detail as the conversation expands.
She was very focused and unafraid to express her thoughts and research.
The more I think about it, the more I feel she is on the right track.
A family in trouble who had access to Dosun, knew about the window, that there were new arrivals that evening who had travelled a long distance and would be tired?

Somebody they had encountered or they just took a chance.
Nora's sister, 12 at the time, stated that Nora was not in bed when she got up to use the toilet. This may suggest Nora departed early in the night.. but certainly in darkness, shoeless and with no survival skills..

It's an utterly heart-breaking event.
I'm unsure if the spiritual theory is the truth but I think it's what her mother and father believe.
They both referred to the spiritual volunteers as healers.
Might be worth a bit of research?
Just me speculating, possibly wildly but nothing else makes sense.

 

[kittythehare]

Agree absolutely, that is not clear. Also as a detail why worry about it instead of providing a plastic sheet?

Why was Nora sleeping upstairs and not with a parent downstairs? We know the staircase was precarious and that she would have been unable to handle it on her own.

She was perfectly capable of handling the stairs. She was also perfectly capable of sleeping upstairs wit her siblings.

 

[kittythehare]

Did this teenager wander into the Malaysian jungle or was she abducted from her bed?

 

[MimosaMornings]

Both parents heard hushed voices/whispers inside the house that night. Through a heavy door?

 

[MsBetsy]

Both parents heard hushed voices/whispers inside the house that night. Through a heavy door?

She said she heard "muffled" voices, which might have sounded like whispers or low voices with the door closed.

I wonder if police ever investigated the sound of the truck that night one witness said they heard. Wasn't it at about 3:00 in the morning? I thought they said it was unusual for a vehicle to be there at that time of night.

Imo

 

[Ruthbullock]

There is one statement that makes me question everything else- that is the muffled voices inside. I listened to Sebastians testimony today- literally word for word verbatim what I had transcribed the day before. Surely this is a massive game changer ,
Why was it not in the press at the time? Why were the sentences so transcribed using the exact same sentences, I put words, but it was actually the entire sentence. Whilst I don’t believe for a second it changes the situation of her death, why as parents would you throw that into the investigation now and why has it never been mentioned before? Did I miss this some how the first time round?

 

[Ruthbullock]

She said she heard "muffled" voices, which might have sounded like whispers or low voices with the door closed.

I wonder if police ever investigated the sound of the truck that night one witness said they heard. Wasn't it at about 3:00 in the morning? I thought they said it was unusual for a vehicle to be there at that time of night.

Imo

I never saw or read about this, but I was on holiday at the time. Do you have a link, or even previous posts that discussed this? Thanks

 

[kittythehare]

There is one statement that makes me question everything else- that is the muffled voices inside. I listened to Sebastians testimony today- literally word for word verbatim what I had transcribed the day before. Surely this is a massive game changer ,
Why was it not in the press at the time? Why were the sentences so transcribed using the exact same sentences, I put words, but it was actually the entire sentence. Whilst I don’t believe for a second it changes the situation of her death, why as parents would you throw that into the investigation now and why has it never been mentioned before? Did I miss this some how the first time round?

Not everything is in the press, particularly during an active investigation. Am pretty sure they would have informed the police at the time.
Again it's tentative, rather than game-changer.
Muffled sounds were heard in a new location in a new part of the world by two very tired, probably highly stressed parents, at an unspecified time while both were semi conscious, not strong enough to evoke fear or maternal or paternal instinctive responses.
They didn't lead anywhere, the muffled sounds, as far as we know.
Could have been the younger daughter moving about, Nora leaving or being taken, no CCTV...

I'm not sure how they could be so certain they were within the Sora house, rather than without.. possibly the walls were very thin...
It's unfortunate that all the police testimonies are not translated and it's difficult to know what they are thinking or were thinking or were told..
It's all very well Malaysia stating the trial will be public, yet police testimonies did not have translations or subtitles..
We don't have the full story.
There may well have been a simple explanation for it that her family do not yet know? That sounds feeble..

 

[kittythehare]

I never saw or read about this, but I was on holiday at the time. Do you have a link, or even previous posts that discussed this? Thanks

Malaysian Police refuse to set time limit in search for Nóra Quoirin | Newstalk

ETA another report of elusive truck-in-an-eco-resort at 3am..
Police in Malaysia investigating reports truck was heard the morning Nora Quoirin disappeared

 

[Seni]

There is one statement that makes me question everything else- that is the muffled voices inside. I listened to Sebastians testimony today- literally word for word verbatim what I had transcribed the day before. Surely this is a massive game changer ,
Why was it not in the press at the time? Why were the sentences so transcribed using the exact same sentences, I put words, but it was actually the entire sentence. Whilst I don’t believe for a second it changes the situation of her death, why as parents would you throw that into the investigation now and why has it never been mentioned before? Did I miss this some how the first time round?

Hi Ruth,

Am not sure about the full sentence you refer to but:
I think it comes in because as with many unresolved crimes you begin to imagine things that you might have seen or heard. And sometimes later they become fact in your mind. IMO

 

[Seni]

You can see the "house" in this video shot by another family that had vacationed in it. The parents were sleeping in the bedroom with a door and the kids were sleeping up the very narrow spiral staircase on what I would consider just a balcony. You will see that a lot of the floor space is an open patio. I personally would have been terrified to leave children unsupervised in a place like this, broken window latch or not.

I tend to agree with Evilwise. You can observe the staircase in the video.

 

[Seni]

Not everything is in the press, particularly during an active investigation. Am pretty sure they would have informed the police at the time.
Again it's tentative, rather than game-changer.
Muffled sounds were heard in a new location in a new part of the world by two very tired, probably highly stressed parents, at an unspecified time while both were semi conscious, not strong enough to evoke fear or maternal or paternal instinctive responses.
They didn't lead anywhere, the muffled sounds, as far as we know.
Could have been the younger daughter moving about, Nora leaving or being taken, no CCTV...

I'm not sure how they could be so certain they were within the Sora house, rather than without.. possibly the walls were very thin...
It's unfortunate that all the police testimonies are not translated and it's difficult to know what they are thinking or were thinking or were told..
It's all very well Malaysia stating the trial will be public, yet police testimonies did not have translations or subtitles..
We don't have the full story.
There may well have been a simple explanation for it that her family do not yet know? That sounds feeble..

 

[Seni]

Bolded by me.

Your hearing would be on a pin prick given new circumstances.

 

[kittythehare]

Bolded by me.

Your hearing would be on a pin prick given new circumstances.

I am referring to Sebastian's testimony when he was asked directly whether the sound could have been Nora calling. You will find link to both testimonies on thread here from earlier today.

 

[Seni]

dble post

 

[Seni]

"- Heard party noises during the night from a chalet nearby
- Later on he heard muffled noises from within the Sora"

 

[neesaki]

Bolded by me.

Your hearing would be on a pin prick given new circumstances.

I wonder if the parents had taken sleeping meds, something such as Ambien.

 

[Chiatos]

Sebastian's testimony continued
1:45-2:31
- the family went swimming before lunch that would have been served in an hour time after arrival at the Dusun
- around 3 p.m. they went for a walk within the Dusun
- Sebastian continued the walk for about 20 mins while M. and the kids went to the swimming pool
- inside the Sora house, Nora put on her swim suit
- Sebastian doesn't know whether Nora went to the toilet (before going for a swim)
- after lunch the family took a 30 (less than 1 hour) mins nap
- Nora must have gone to the toilet at some point
- Nora must have taken the nap upstairs ("I believe so")
- There is no toilet in the mezzanine. The kids would use the toilet in the master bathroom.
- After the siesta they went for a walk in the Dusun "The Dusun Walk"
- After the walk, the kids and M. went to the swimming pool and Sebastian continued the walk for 20 mins and joined them later
- That's when he noticed the broken fences. But no cause for concern at that point.
- After about 10 mins Nora and mum went back to the chalet
- S. stayed with the other 2 kids
- At round 5 p.m. S+kids went back to the Sora
- Everyone took a shower etc. The kids and M played a game together
- S. did some yoga
- Nora seemed normal, just as tired as the rest, nothing unusual. Description of Nora: less energy, but happy to be with M.
- S prepared the bbq
- Everyone enjoyed the bbq and each other's company
- Nora had good appetite and ate well
- Nora knew where the toilet was and was capable to go by herself. S. doesn't know whether she went to the toilet before the bbq
- M. tucked the kids in while S. was already in the master bedroom
- M. closed the sliding door of their bedroom
- S was not aware when exactly Nora went to the toilet, but it was routine for everyone to go to the toilet before bed
- One could exit the Sora from the door, it wasn't difficult
- In the plane she went to the toilet independently, so she must have been able to open the door with the latch
- S. did not hear Inez go to the toilet at night
- The muffled noise outside the master bedroom door did not cause any concern to S.
- The nature of the muffled noise was roughly: a combination of some movement possibly with some whispering
- S did not feel any security issue
- It was very hot that night
- S+M assumed that Nora would be able to do the guided jungle walk with the family. It was suitable for children.
- During the Dusun Walk in the afternoon, M and kids walked back from G (deer park) to A (Sora), where there is no path (see map)
Nora fell somewhere between G and A. Nora and M returned to the Sora holding hands.
- If Nora was fully aware of her limitations and handicap and if she would encounter some danger, she would freeze and call for mummy and daddy
- On the day of arrival, S. had not noticed the sunken bath at the Sora. He first noticed it sometime during the week
- S doesn't remember the spot with the sunken bath. He did not notice the sunken bath during the 10 days they stayed at the Sora, due to his frame of mind
- S did not notice the presence of a second toilet in the chalet
- Hanim had a dog an lived in a house/chalet right above the Sora
- That night, S did not hear any dogs barking