Mark Smich: Innocent Dupe? Alternative Theories

[Kamille]

TB's truck had a diesel engine. DM's did not. If he wanted it for parts, he would have not chosen one with a diesel engine. I'm sure there are other trucks capable of towing a trailer. How do you know he didn't use it regularly? Just because he wasn't in it when he was arrested? There's been lots of talk about a grocery store trip that it was used for. Ram trucks are very popular in Ontario. It's hard to go anywhere without seeing at least one.

Diesel engines are preferred for long distance hauling like DM would be doing if he was going to Baja. Great on gas mileage as well. The "parts" he wanted was the Diesel engine itself IMO. Lots of pics of him and his car buddies pulling and replacing engines. There are not many large size pickups capable of pulling that large trailer. DM preferred North American built cars. The Ram 3500 is very popular as one of the largest heavy duty pick ups. He didn't mention the pickup as one of the cars he regularly drove in the jailhouse letters. I believe he mentioned the Yukon as his regular vehicle.

There has been nothing to indicate that DM was planning on entering the next Baja race. I know it's been often referred to as DM's burner phone, but LE specifically said the burner phone was purchased by "one of the accused". If they have since found out which one purchased it, it has not been announced. How can anyone know who specifically made the phone calls and did the talking? Did the other test drive guy recognize his voice?

There has been nothing to indicate that DM was not planning on returning to Baja. LE indicated that DM made the phone calls.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ler-tried-to-arrange-3rd-test-drive-1.1302075

If DM bought expensive toys and trips for his friends, I don't see why it would be a stretch for him to drive a friend around to look at vehicles. According to ABro, he was a good enough friend to let him move in. According to Facebook pictures, others who worked in the hangar also knew him. How they all knew each other is anyone's guess.

JMO

Where has it been indicated that DM bought expensive toys and trips for his friends? He probably paid for trips for his girlfriends but I've seen nothing to say he bought anything for his male friends. If that was the case, why didn't he buy MS a vehicle?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Yes, unconfirmed. Like almost everything else that's being discussed. If it was a delivery with bad timing, I wonder why it would have been removed, instead of just driven away.

Who says it wasn't driven away? There is nothing other than this vague tweet that one neighbour saw a flatbed truck of stones "removed" from his house. If LE had a large tow truck to remove a flat bed truck, I'm sure it would have made the news. There are lots of pictures of LE activity at MS's house. Nothing showing a large tow truck. If you drive a truck away from somewhere, that would be considered removing it as well IMO.

MOO

 

[Juballee]

Maybe the flatbed was stolen by MS, and that's why he had to keep TB's truck at MB's house, because his parking spot was already filled with another stolen vehicle.

In my opinion people don't usually mistake moving a truck with removing a truck. When someone wants to change where their vehicle is parked, people say 'I'm going to move my car to a different spot', I've personally never heard anyone say that they were going to go 'remove their car to a different spot.'

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM - Link please and TIA. If the money he used to pay for the condo(s) was from proceeds of crime, yes then basically he did obtained the condo(s) illegally IMO.

As you know, the Kijiji ads are no longer online. However, here is where it was discussed in 2013...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?221366-General-Discussion-and-Theories-3/page4

And here again in 2014...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?240759-Tim-Bosma-Dellen-Millard-amp-Mark-Smich-chgd-w-Murder-Christina-Noudga-Accessory/page18

So are you saying MS had no interest in vehicles? I did ask because I haven't seen information suggesting he was. MS may not have been interested in chopping them, but helping to steal :dunno:

No, actually you did. You said..

DM ran with two different groups/circles and I assume MS wasn't in that particular group who liked working on vehicles.

and that's what I was reponding to.

We all know chop shops can and do transport stolen vehicles and parts to other countries. Mexico is a favoured country to do so. Did DM have plans to swap out the VIN from TB's truck and take it across the border in the trailer to sell in Mexico? Had he made friends/connections with someone in Mexico during the Baja the previous year there? Did his plan fail because MSM reported the borders had been flagged? MOO.

It's my understanding that most stolen cars are shipped to Africa and the Middle East, but also to other places abroad. Often with VIN's and plates intact.

CARS, TRUCKS and heavy equipment stolen from Ontario have been seen – sometimes still with Ontario licence plates – in Russia, Ukraine, Sweden, Bosnia, Croatia, the Netherlands, China, Thailand, and across Africa and the Middle East.

http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/2009/07/11/vehicles_stolen_in_gta_shipped_around_the_world.html

He said the containers go to a variety of different countries, but stolen cars are primarily being shipped to Africa and the Middle East.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1730368/canadian-cars-shipped-overseas-may-be-linked-to-terrorism-ibc/

UBM - Seriously? So you don't believe DM couldn't and wouldn't have gotten another gun? He obviously had the connections to do so. I think we are speaking of someone who is suggested to be intelligent. I haven't read anything to prove otherwise, have you? His jail letters don't reflect that.

Once again, I was responding to your suggestion that the same gun was used for all three murders. As a reminder, what you said was:

Quote Originally Posted by swedie
DM decided to murder TB and I believe DM shot him with the gun LE believe was the gun used in the murder of WM. I also think LB was shot with the same gun, this being the connection LE spoke of.

It will be interesting to find out what type of gun was used. An antique? Is that why LE didn't take the gun? Did DM lie claiming it had sentimental value, it had been passed down through the generations? We all recall that article where DM claimed to be a direct descendant of Chief Joseph Brant. MOO.

The truck has been flagged for border officials and police agencies across the province, but has not yet been spotted. Bosma’s credit cards, too, have been flagged, but have not been used since his disappearance, Kavanagh said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...is_return_after_test_drive_disappearance.html



Notice Selling Antique Firearms. The law would be different if someone was selling them for proceeds of crime. Did LE find other illegal guns in DM's house or hangar purchased through MWJ after TB's murder? TWT and All JMO.

Licensing and Registration Requirements

Individuals who own only antique firearms do not need a firearms licence, nor do they need to register any of their antique firearms.

Selling Antique Firearms

There are no restrictions on selling, buying, bartering or giving away antique firearms.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/antique-historique-eng.htm

Millard also told Seaman that he was "a direct descendant of Chief Joseph Brant," the Mohawk leader who aided the British forces during the American Revolution in the mid-1700s.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/who-is-dellen-millard-charged-in-tim-bosma-killing-2-others-1.2605821

Do you really think it's possible that MWJ sold DM a pre-1898 gun or a black powder reproduction??? If he did, I can pretty well guarantee you that it wasn't used in any of the three alleged murders.

HTH and JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Who says it wasn't driven away? There is nothing other than this vague tweet that one neighbour saw a flatbed truck of stones "removed" from his house. If LE had a large tow truck to remove a flat bed truck, I'm sure it would have made the news. There are lots of pictures of LE activity at MS's house. Nothing showing a large tow truck. If you drive a truck away from somewhere, that would be considered removing it as well IMO.

MOO

Do you happen to have a link to all these pictures? Most that I've seen are pictures taken after he was arrested - the search of the area around his home, LE going in and out of the house during their search. TIA

 

[Alethea Dice]

Diesel engines are preferred for long distance hauling like DM would be doing if he was going to Baja. Great on gas mileage as well. The "parts" he wanted was the Diesel engine itself IMO. Lots of pics of him and his car buddies pulling and replacing engines. There are not many large size pickups capable of pulling that large trailer. DM preferred North American built cars. The Ram 3500 is very popular as one of the largest heavy duty pick ups. He didn't mention the pickup as one of the cars he regularly drove in the jailhouse letters. I believe he mentioned the Yukon as his regular vehicle.






There has been nothing to indicate that DM was not planning on returning to Baja. LE indicated that DM made the phone calls.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ler-tried-to-arrange-3rd-test-drive-1.1302075






Where has it been indicated that DM bought expensive toys and trips for his friends? He probably paid for trips for his girlfriends but I've seen nothing to say he bought anything for his male friends. If that was the case, why didn't he buy MS a vehicle?

MOO

His current truck did just fine on the last trip to Baja. It's my understanding that it isn't an easy task to sway a Cummings Diesel engine into DM's truck. Again, the discussion took place 2 years ago. A good place to start might be around here...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?221366-General-Discussion-and-Theories-3/page4

There was lots of discussion in here about the grocery cart in the back of his truck. Also lots of discussion about seadoos and X-boxes that he bought for his friends to use. Sorry you've been away so long and missed all that.

JMO

Re the phone calls, then I guess LE either found a way to determine who bought it and haven't announced that, or found a way to determine whose voice was on the calls.

 

[Kamille]

Maybe the flatbed was stolen by MS, and that's why he had to keep TB's truck at MB's house, because his parking spot was already filled with another stolen vehicle.

In my opinion people don't usually mistake moving a truck with removing a truck. When someone wants to change where their vehicle is parked, people say 'I'm going to move my car to a different spot', I've personally never heard anyone say that they were going to go 'remove their car to a different spot.'

Perhaps someone was walking their dog early in the morning and saw a flatbed truck with stones on it in their driveway (or perhaps they were mistaken and it's a different house altogether). LE show up after 9am and the same person says "someone removed that truck I saw this morning from the driveway". MS was caught on foot. If he had a stolen vehicle you'd think he would have driven it. Here are two links of witnesses to the scene at MS's house that day. Witnesses didn't say anything about LE removing any vehicles. Photos from that day show no flat bed truck and no tow truck removing one from the home. It has never been mentioned in MSM. One person claims this to a reporter who is there but also does not see this activity so he tweets it out as unconfirmed. It is never confirmed. It is an unconfirmed rumour and very likely there was never a flat bed truck in MS's mother's driveway unless she had an early morning shipment from a landscaping or garden centre.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/2nd-suspect-named-in-tim-bosma-slaying-1.1329948

http://globalnews.ca/news/585372/who-is-mark-smich/

Pictures at this link show the house that day.

https://storify.com/justinjourno/spectator-a-fistful-of-tweets-on-the-tim-bosma-inv.html

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Do you happen to have a link to all these pictures? Most that I've seen are pictures taken after he was arrested - the search of the area around his home, LE going in and out of the house during their search. TIA

He was not arrested at the house. LE did not descend on the house until after he was arrested.

Shortly after the arrest, police moved in on a home in Oakville owned by Maria Smich-Grygorcewicz on Montrose Abbey Drive. Hamilton police confirmed the search at that address was related to the Bosma case.

Neighbours told CBC News in Hamilton that police arrived at the Smich home at about 9 a.m. Officers were still at the house in the afternoon.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/2nd-suspect-named-in-tim-bosma-slaying-1.1329948

And no where in that article do any neighbours describe the scene of LE removing a flat bed truck or any other vehicle from tha house.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

His current truck did just fine on the last trip to Baja. It's my understanding that it isn't an easy task to sway a Cummings Diesel engine into DM's truck. Again, the discussion took place 2 years ago. A good place to start might be around here...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?221366-General-Discussion-and-Theories-3/page4

There was lots of discussion in here about the grocery cart in the back of his truck. Also lots of discussion about seadoos and X-boxes that he bought for his friends to use. Sorry you've been away so long and missed all that.

JMO

Re the phone calls, then I guess LE either found a way to determine who bought it and haven't announced that, or found a way to determine whose voice was on the calls.

Yes I remember that discussion. And I remember being of the opinion that MS and his mechanic and car buddies may have discussed how much more reliable and long lasting a Cummins diesel engine is, how much cheaper it is to run etc. Perhaps his 8 yr old engine likely with some good kilometers on it after the last trip needed some work and perhaps it was suggested to him that he either get a new truck with a diesel engine or order a new diesel engine for the old truck to tow the trailer. Perhaps he decided he had a better idea on how to acquire one.

Buying stuff to have that your friends can "play" with when they are with you is not the same as buying them things for themselves. And there is no indication he was ever generous enough to buy his male friends anything to keep for themselves.

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Perhaps someone was walking their dog early in the morning and saw a flatbed truck with stones on it in their driveway (or perhaps they were mistaken and it's a different house altogether). LE show up after 9am and the same person says "someone removed that truck I saw this morning from the driveway". MS was caught on foot. If he had a stolen vehicle you'd think he would have driven it. Here are two links of witnesses to the scene at MS's house that day. Witnesses didn't say anything about LE removing any vehicles. Photos from that day show no flat bed truck and no tow truck removing one from the home. It has never been mentioned in MSM. One person claims this to a reporter who is there but also does not see this activity so he tweets it out as unconfirmed. It is never confirmed. It is an unconfirmed rumour and very likely there was never a flat bed truck in MS's mother's driveway unless she had an early morning shipment from a landscaping or garden centre.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/2nd-suspect-named-in-tim-bosma-slaying-1.1329948

http://globalnews.ca/news/585372/who-is-mark-smich/

Pictures at this link show the house that day.

https://storify.com/justinjourno/spectator-a-fistful-of-tweets-on-the-tim-bosma-inv.html

MOO

Except that's not what the person said. What they said was that they saw the truck removed from the home. There is the possibility that it wasn't reported in MSM because LE wouldn't confirm it. And it's no surprise that they wouldn't, if that's the case.

I'm not sure running back to a flatbed truck full of stones would have been his first choice as a quick escape.

As indicated by the reporter, those pictures were taken in the afternoon and evening when he arrived in Oakville, hours after the arrest. I don't believe there are any pictures taken during the arrest at 9:00 am. Likely because LE didn't announce that it would be happening.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

He was not arrested at the house. LE did not descend on the house until after he was arrested.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/2nd-suspect-named-in-tim-bosma-slaying-1.1329948

And no where in that article do any neighbours describe the scene of LE removing a flat bed truck or any other vehicle from tha house.

MOO

I know he wasn't arrested at the house. But they tried to and, fortunately, he hadn't gotten far away yet.

Oakville resident Stephania Capeloa, who lives opposite the Smich home, said she saw a ten-man SWAT team swoop in on the home early this morning.

"I was leaving for Target. Seeing a SWAT team was the last thing I expected to see," she said. "It's hard to believe someone like that can live here in this neighbourhood."

Capeloa said they used what looked like tear gas, before the heavily armed SWAT team barged through the front door.

http://www.theifp.ca/news-story/5369660-oakville-man-arrested-in-tim-bosma-murder/

Mark Smich, who is known to police, was taken into custody in Oakville, on Dorval Dr., north of Wycroft Dr., shortly after 10 a.m. Wednesday. Police also executed another search warrant, one of 15 they have now conducted, at a house on nearby Montrose Abbey Dr. that is believed to be Smich’s home.

Neighbours said they saw heavily armed tactical officers enter the two-storey brick house around 9:30 a.m.

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

 

[Alethea Dice]

Buying stuff to have that your friends can "play" with when they are with you is not the same as buying them things for themselves. And there is no indication he was ever generous enough to buy his male friends anything to keep for themselves.

MOO

Thank you. That was my opinion too. And I also didn't think it unusual to pay for a trip for a girlfriend. But many here disagreed.

 

[Kamille]

Except that's not what the person said. What they said was that they saw the truck removed from the home. There is the possibility that it wasn't reported in MSM because LE wouldn't confirm it. And it's no surprise that they wouldn't, if that's the case.

I'm not sure running back to a flatbed truck full of stones would have been his first choice as a quick escape.

As indicated by the reporter, those pictures were taken in the afternoon and evening when he arrived in Oakville, hours after the arrest. I don't believe there are any pictures taken during the arrest at 9:00 am. Likely because LE didn't announce that it would be happening.

JMO

Well perhaps it wasn't confirmed because no other neighbour claimed to have seen this event and the same person who claimed they did also believes they saw Elvis riding in on a UFO IYKWIM? .

Bottom line is that it's still just an unconfirmed rumour that we probably shouldn't be putting too much stock in.

MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I know he wasn't arrested at the house. But they tried to and, fortunately, he hadn't gotten far away yet.



http://www.theifp.ca/news-story/5369660-oakville-man-arrested-in-tim-bosma-murder/



http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

Mark Smich, who is known to police, was taken into custody in Oakville, on Dorval Dr., north of Wycroft Dr., shortly after 10 a.m. Wednesday. Police also executed another search warrant, one of 15 they have now conducted, at a house on nearby Montrose Abbey Dr. that is believed to be Smich’s home.
http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

Interesting that MS lived a short drive down the road from someone who had been very close to DM.


Also, MS lived in Oakville-yet very early in the investigation, LE knew the phone call to TB had come from a phone in the west end of Toronto.
Police found the phone in an industrial area near Brantford; they say they’re able to get records of calls made to Bosma’s cell phone before it was shut off at about 10 p.m. on Monday. Police say phone records suggest the two men are from west-end Toronto.

Police have traced a number that called Bosma’s cellphone earlier that evening to a phone registered originally in the Toronto area under a bogus name. That phone became inoperable around the same time as Bosma’s.
http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...rive-with-two-strange-men-and-never-came-back

The burner phone was acquired 3 months prior to the murder, under a bogus name and LE tracked it at various locations in Etobicoke-10 min into the video. 2nd test drive guy was near in TO in Etobicoke area. IMHO, since MS lived about 31 km away from DM and as far as we know, didn't own a car, it's pretty difficult to think that MS would have been using that burner phone all over Etobicoke in the months proceeding TB's murder. So, did MS get the burner phone under a bogus name and then give it to DM and ask him to use it all around DM's hood? MOO
https://youtu.be/-QQvNrsjgBk

 

[Kamille]

I know he wasn't arrested at the house. But they tried to and, fortunately, he hadn't gotten far away yet.



http://www.theifp.ca/news-story/5369660-oakville-man-arrested-in-tim-bosma-murder/



http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

Wow, I did miss that a swat team had descended on the home to make the arrest. 10 member team with tear gas? Seems extreme. But he did have a record so I guess they were being cautious.

MOO

 

[Variant]

Wow, I did miss that a swat team had descended on the home to make the arrest. 10 member team with tear gas? Seems extreme. But he did have a record so I guess they were being cautious.

MOO

Some discussion of this in this thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...na-Noudga-Accessory-3&p=11627196#post11627196

Posts 551-555

Don't forget that both DM and MS would have been considered armed and dangerous, and LE would have expected that MS would know that DM had been arrested and so could be prepared to resist arrest.

They went after DM first and used a take down technique on him that LE use on very dangerous offenders, and as described used at least as many officers.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Mark Smich, who is known to police, was taken into custody in Oakville, on Dorval Dr., north of Wycroft Dr., shortly after 10 a.m. Wednesday. Police also executed another search warrant, one of 15 they have now conducted, at a house on nearby Montrose Abbey Dr. that is believed to be Smich’s home.
http://www.lfpress.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

Interesting that MS lived a short drive down the road from someone who had been very close to DM.
View attachment 73414

Also, MS lived in Oakville-yet very early in the investigation, LE knew the phone call to TB had come from a phone in the west end of Toronto.
Police found the phone in an industrial area near Brantford; they say they’re able to get records of calls made to Bosma’s cell phone before it was shut off at about 10 p.m. on Monday. Police say phone records suggest the two men are from west-end Toronto.

Police have traced a number that called Bosma’s cellphone earlier that evening to a phone registered originally in the Toronto area under a bogus name. That phone became inoperable around the same time as Bosma’s.
http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...rive-with-two-strange-men-and-never-came-back

The burner phone was acquired 3 months prior to the murder, under a bogus name and LE tracked it at various locations in Etobicoke-10 min into the video. 2nd test drive guy was near in TO in Etobicoke area. IMHO, since MS lived about 31 km away from DM and as far as we know, didn't own a car, it's pretty difficult to think that MS would have been using that burner phone all over Etobicoke in the months proceeding TB's murder. So, did MS get the burner phone under a bogus name and then give it to DM and ask him to use it all around DM's hood? MOO
https://youtu.be/-QQvNrsjgBk

Why is it interesting where his friend lived? I believe they broke up in spring/summer of 2011. That house was first listed for sale in May 2011 and again in March 2012 and finally sold in May 2012, before this all happened. What am I missing about this?

MS was living with DM at the end of November 2012. The phone was purchased around February 2013. When did he move back to Oakville? Before or after the murder? Regardless, if he had just been living with DM, I don't see why he couldn't still be in the area and making calls. It doesn't appear that they just stopped seeing each other once he moved out.

JMO

 

[matou]

That place where MS was arrested is about 30 min away on foot from his house and across the QEW. Pretty early too IMO so was likely tipped off that LE was after him. Is it possible he was elsewhere and making his way back home that morning?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Wow, I did miss that a swat team had descended on the home to make the arrest. 10 member team with tear gas? Seems extreme. But he did have a record so I guess they were being cautious.

MOO

Yes, they brought in extra security for his first court appearance too.

Extra security was brought in for his appearance, which lasted 10 minutes. He stood, slouching with his hands in his pockets, while he was formally charged with first degree murder. Asked his name by the justice of the peace, he replied "Mark" in a low voice. The JP had to prompt him for his last name.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3236885-clairmont-accused-bosma-killer-cowers-in-court/

A lot of money spent for a mellow stoner IMO.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, they brought in extra security for his first court appearance too.



http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3236885-clairmont-accused-bosma-killer-cowers-in-court/

A lot of money spent for a mellow stoner IMO.

I would think the extra security they brought in was court security for the large volume of people that supposedly packed the courtroom, especially reporters. No telling what kind of an angry mob may have been in there after MS was on the lam for a couple of weeks.

Don't think they'd need extra prison guards to bring in one shackled guy to a prisoner's box.

MOO