Max's back injuries

[CuriousGeorgia]

The Zahau's asked LE to re-examine the case immediately upon learning they were going to conlcude suicide. A month before the announcement and the day they learned of the conclusion. Their requests fell on deaf ears.

It took Dina a YEAR to ask LE to ex-examine her son's death......

The Zahau's were also grieving.... and they demanded answers and justice immediately.

IMO, the Zahaus refused to even consider the evidence that SDSO had. Mary Zahau said the day of Rebecca's death that she would NEVER believe Rebecca took her own life.

Everyone's grief is different. Mary Zahau was mourning a sister. Dina Shacknai was mourning her ONLY CHILD.

All grief counselors will tell you that the loss of your CHILD, especially an ONLY CHILD is the hardest loss a person can ever experience.

If it were my only child, I'm not even sure a year would be enough mourning for me. I would NEVER judge a mother for how long she grieved in private for her child.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

BBM - and just a side note, the article in Phoenix Magazine has been updated and revised. I recommend reading the article again.

From the article "Boy, Interrupted" -

Snip - In lieu of a costly and lengthy court battle, which Dina says could have bankrupted her, she and Jonah agreed on a set of ground rules regarding Max and Rebecca. According to Dina, Rebecca was not allowed to cross state lines alone with Max or take him to an airport. She was not to watch him alone when other members of the Zahau family were present. And she would not go to functions at Phoenix Country Day School, where Max attended kindergarten. The rules gave Dina some peace of mind – an indemnity against her worst parental fears. By the time the family convened in Coronado for Max’s 6th birthday on June 7, 2011, the tension between Dina and Rebecca had subsided. Rebecca even invited Dina and her sister, Nina, out for coffee after the party. Dina, whose mother was ailing, had to decline, but she thought it was a nice gesture.

http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/valley-news/201208/boy--interrupted-full-version/2/

BBM

Regarding Dina's demands of what Rebecca was not allowed to do:

"And she would not go to functions at Phoenix Country Day School, where Max attended kindergarten."

But Rebecca was allowed to do the following with Max:

Drive him and pick him up from school

Feed him breakfast lunch and dinner

Take him to and from soccer practice

Make sure he was clean, washed behind his ears, brushed his teeth, combed his hair, tied his shoes, put his shirt on the right way and said his prayers at bedtime

Read him bedtime stories and listen to his stories

Share adventures, good times and problems but she was not allowed to attend any school functions and that was one of the things that gave Dina peace of mind. Hmmm.

 

[freespeech]

IMO, the Zahaus refused to even consider the evidence that SDSO had. Mary Zahau said the day of Rebecca's death that she would NEVER believe Rebecca took her own life.

Everyone's grief is different. Mary Zahau was mourning a sister. Dina Shacknai was mourning her ONLY CHILD.

All grief counselors will tell you that the loss of your CHILD, especially an ONLY CHILD is the hardest loss a person can ever experience.

If it were my only child, I'm not even sure a year would be enough mourning for me. I would NEVER judge a mother for how long she grieved in private for her child.

JMO

I think Mary would have been convinced if SDSO had any hard evidence but they did not. No voice mail, no suicide note, no proof of how Rebecca tied herself and choked her neck with the tee shirt and then jumped off the balcony without disturbing the dust before before the tee shirt aphixiated her. Not many families would believe that, imo.

And by the way I don't consider this a contest about who suffered more. i don't ever ever think that way. I feel sorry for Dina. Losing a child is inconceivable. I also feel sorry for the Zahaus because Rebecca was brutally murdered and they and Rebecca's remains were treated disdainfully by LE so that is inconceivably horrible as well. However,imoo, this is not a contest for who is the more deserving victim. Both families are victims of inconceivably horrible circumstances.

Also, I did not see that the point of the previous poster was to judge Dina but only to show the the Zahaus reacted immediately to the injustice that they perceived where as Dina did not attempt to have Max's case reopened until one year later. That is not a judgement but only a comparison.

 

[arielilane]

BBM

Regarding Dina's demands of what Rebecca was not allowed to do:

"And she would not go to functions at Phoenix Country Day School, where Max attended kindergarten."

But Rebecca was allowed to do the following with Max:

Drive him and pick him up from school

Feed him breakfast lunch and dinner

Take him to and from soccer practice

Make sure he was clean, washed behind his ears, brushed his teeth, combed his hair, tied his shoes, put his shirt on the right way and said his prayers at bedtime

Read him bedtime stories and listen to his stories

Share adventures, good times and problems but she was not allowed to attend any school functions and that was one of the things that gave Dina peace of mind. Hmmm.

Wow was she ever jealous of Rebecca. How insecure.

 

[MyBelle]

The Zahau's asked LE to re-examine the case immediately upon learning they were going to conlcude suicide. A month before the announcement and the day they learned of the conclusion. Their requests fell on deaf ears.

It took Dina a YEAR to ask LE to ex-examine her son's death...... why now.... and so dramatically with a charity and on the anniversary of her son's death.... in a Press Conference.... about a week BEFORE she went to LE to ask for her case to be reopened? I would call that PLAYING to the media... they were invited to the press conference and if they could not come... they could certainly use the press release that was issued to write a story.

The Zahau's were also grieving.... and they demanded answers and justice immediately.

Didn't Max deserve the same outrage...immediately? If it were my son I would demand answers immediately.

Maybe it took a year before Dina could find some paid experts that would "tell the story" she wanted to hear?

The Zahau's on the other hand found immediate embracing by the public... who had exactly the same questions.

To date.... Dina's experts and there blind conclusions have not been warmly met... Dr. Phil and Dr. Wecht were harsh on them....

I think Dr. Phil and Dr. Wecht would gladly investigate etc.... but they clearly did not respect the conclusions of Dina's experts.

Dr. Wecht did the second RZ autopsy for free.... he reviewed Max's autopsy report... and did not come to the same conclusions as Dina's expert.... I don't think he would jeopardize his career and not be exacting in his conclusions... he could find MS was murdered and still believe RZ was also.... but he didn't.

BBM. Perhaps if you were to familiarize yourself with Jewish practices, you would be more respectful of the timing involved in Dina's actions.

Dr. Phil and Dr. Wecht are celebrity pundits who have made a lot of money exploiting tragedies. Their opinions are worth only what they charged for them.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

I don't see all that much difference. There was really no proof of murder in Caylee's case. If it had been ruled an accident and no arrest, the cable shows would not have continued to cover it and the family would not have profited financially from it.

Dina's taken the high road and chose to respectfully ask LE to reexamine her son's death. She didn't play to the media first.

JMO

The Zahaus did not take the low road by ending up in the media. LE refused to take their concerns seriously and avoided them. LE still have not returned all of Rebecca's personal effects to the family over a year later. How henious and suspicious is that?

The Zahaus don't have the money, power and influence that Jonah has so the media circus was an equalizer so to speak. There was no shame for them to go that route, imo, if it helped win needed support for their cause.

 

[freespeech]

BBM. Perhaps if you were to familiarize yourself with Jewish practices, you would be more respectful of the timing involved in Dina's actions.

Dr. Phil and Dr. Wecht are celebrity pundits who have made a lot of money exploiting tragedies. Their opinions are worth only what they charged for them.

JMO

Does Jewish practice prohibit asking for a police investigation when you are concerned that your child was murdered? What does the religion say about that? Can you give a simple answer?

The reason I ask is because it is my understanding that different Jewish people practice differently from each other. For example do stricter religious people advocate burial only as opposed to cremation?

I understand that Max was cremated and that would be considered a more liberal practice. Also, Dina's conversion was liberal because not all groups accept conversions like that.

Was it a conservative rule that Dina be in shiva for one year? Wikipedia states shiva means seven or one week of mourning for first degree relatives like son, mother, husband, etc. Are there other rules that you can tell of to help in understanding Dina's mysterious timing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_(Judaism)

 

[Inparadise]

Does Jewish practice prohibit asking for a police investigation when you are concerned that your child was murdered? What does the religion say about that? Can you give a simple answer?

The reason I ask is because it is my understanding that different Jewish people practice differently from each other. For example do stricter religious people advocate burial only as opposed to cremation?

I understand that Max was cremated and that would be considered a more liberal practice. Also, Dina's conversion was liberal because not all groups accept conversions like that.

Was it a conservative rule that Dina be in shiva for one year? Wikipedia states shiva means seven or one week of mourning for first degree relatives like son, mother, husband, etc. Are there other rules that you can tell of to help in understanding Dina's mysterious timing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_(Judaism)

And let's not forget that Max was creamated, which is against Jewish customs.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

And let's not forget that Max was creamated, which is against Jewish customs.

A growing number of Reform Jews, including several Reform rabbis, are electing to be cremated. Some are repelled by the thought of their bodies decomposing slowly in the ground. Some environmentally conscious Jews believe it is wasteful to reserve large sections of precious land for burial.

http://reformjudaismmag.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=1446

Jews are increasingly choosing to be cremated, funeral professionals say, despite Jewish law and thousands of years of tradition

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/158218/more-jews-opt-for-cremation/?p=all#ixzz298ULbim2

 

[inthedark14]

Dina's taken the high road and chose to respectfully ask LE to reexamine her son's death. She didn't play to the media first.

JMO

Respectfully snipped by me...

Now that's just not true...DS stated when she launched Maxie's House that she felt that his death was not an accident. Prior to/during her meetings with CPD she was publicly stating she did not agree with the CPD findings. They stated in the press conference that they would be meeting with CPD.

The Zahau family, mourning their sister and daughter took the only path available to them, and that brought them many experts to help them. Before the SDSO gave their well timed press conference. Since then we have seen multiple media appearances, some timed to be at the airport in a very "paparazzi like" scheduled interview. This is not the high road. This is strategically placed media appearances for the sake of...well maybe a lawsuit. We don't know what will happen. More power to DS if she wants to sue JS, bring on the testimony. There are many people waiting with bated breath to hear these people speak, under oath. Because they will all have to, no one will be exempt.

There are way more layers to this story than what has been published by LE and MSM. We are all just here speculating as to what is true and what is not...

There is truth though that DS and her attorney/PR team orchestrated her media appearances and the timing of the launch of Maxie's House.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

The media is not going to show up at the airport to interview someone because they have a lawyer and PR. They are going to show up if they feel it will be of interest to their readers.

JMO

 

[inthedark14]

The media is not going to show up at the airport to interview someone because they have a lawyer and PR. They are going to show up if they feel it will be of interest to their readers.

JMO

Really? The media chased DS to the airport? I find that very hard to believe. The interview was scheduled at the airport, if not by PR or a lawyer than by DS herself. This is a high profile case, by any means, but DS is not a celebrity who is harassed by media in the airport.

I'd hate to rush to judgment but she was well aware of where she would be going and when. She could have scheduled that interview for whenever. That interview was purposely scheduled to appear that way. Everything that DS has done thusfar has been orchestrated for "maximum media impact". It's almost as if there is a blueprint for doing so.

DS is suffering a great loss, but she is also hurting another grieving family. She's doing this for her own reasons and motives. That is not right.

Nothing that she has presented has proven that RZ hurt her son. What she has presented has shown bias and finger pointing without any REAL SCIENCE. All she has done is show motive as to why RZ was murdered. Revenge anyone? Maybe it's not her...maybe she really just wants to find out what happened to MS. We all have to look at what's presented to us, and what we're seeing is not a grieving mother...we're seeing someone vengeful and looking to file a suit. Or maybe deflect attention away from all those pesky people talking about how RZ was murdered, and THAT investigation was flawed and missing important information. We'd all like to see it come out...as I've previously stated, please bring on the courts. People stating things under oath is what most of us here would love to see.

Always, MOO

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

The media is not going to show up at the airport to interview someone because they have a lawyer and PR. They are going to show up if they feel it will be of interest to their readers.

JMO

Yes I agree, that is very true. The point being that someone told the media exactly where they would be and when.

The Zahau news story is very high profile.... any new angle on it will be reported.

I have worked in PR for many years. Not high profile. Now retired. I gave my clients this simple advice. Tell the truth and do the right thing..... everything else is a slippery slope to media hell. When you screw up admit it and fix it as soon as possible and for heaven's sake Don't do it again. Some would ask... "why doesn't the media like me..." simple... the media just uses you... it's the public who doesn't like you because you did something wrong and you have not sincerely tried to fix it.

It seems to me that JS and DS are desperate to manipulate the media... if they simply stood on the side of wanting the simple but difficult truth....and were doing the right thing.... they would not have to manipulate the public via the media....

 

[Inparadise]

IMO, Dina appears to really "like" all of the media attention that she has received.......at the Coronado Council Meeting, she was holding court for a good half an hour before hand with the local media, then as soon as she finished her little speach, she was out the door to resume her media court.

 

[freespeech]

IP, I agree, if there was no formal agreement, then her case is severely weakened if she wants to file some civil suit against Jonah. And, I don't think Max's case will ever result in a criminal suit. It makes me wonder if I should go back to the 'fear' factor and national publicity as being the means to hope for an out of court settlement - and to make Jonah want to just to make it go away? IDK

I agree. Imo, Dina is bucking for an out of court settlement. She has not presented her concerns that Max was a homicide victim in any coherent or legitimate format. I agree with K_Z's previous analysis on the matter and believe if Dina were truly sincere she would have used the medical records and Dr. Peterson's findings to bolster her fight.

However, Dina used Dr. Melinek's outlandish report replete with unprofessional references and sources (LHK forum and Wikipedia).

Did Dina purposely "throw" her fight? I wonder? The foundation of her public assault was simply outlandish and absurd, imo. Why ever even make a public thrust unless your are posturing for a reason? So what was her real purpose?

She is entitled to all the medical and doctor reports done on Max's condition. They either prove her point or not. Her using the Bove and especially the Melinek report was like trying to squeeze water from a stone. Imo, she purposely "threw" the fight because she was bucking for an out of court settlement and thought Jonah would give. However, I truly believe that Jonah has very little interest if any in giving Dina an more money than he absolutely must.

Max's medical records would have been sufficient for her cause if any of her claims were true. However, all her claims appear to be false as she has not been able to thus far convince anyone that her son was the victim of a homicide. Furthermore, her request for a re-investigation was turned down yet her petition does not address that by taking the fight to the next level (DA) like the Zahau's did.

Imo, her attempts to seek the "truth"are halfhearted and therefore do not contain the "ring of truth" in them.

 

[freespeech]

Yes I agree, that is very true. The point being that someone told the media exactly where they would be and when.

The Zahau news story is very high profile.... any new angle on it will be reported.

I have worked in PR for many years. Not high profile. Now retired. I gave my clients this simple advice. Tell the truth and do the right thing..... everything else is a slippery slope to media hell. When you screw up admit it and fix it as soon as possible and for heaven's sake Don't do it again. Some would ask... "why doesn't the media like me..." simple... the media just uses you... it's the public who doesn't like you because you did something wrong and you have not sincerely tried to fix it.

It seems to me that JS and DS are desperate to manipulate the media... if they simply stood on the side of wanting the simple but difficult truth....and were doing the right thing.... they would not have to manipulate the public via the media....

Mrs. Holmes, thank you for the lovely post and down to earth wisdom. It was absolutely beautiful.

I always enjoy reading your comments but tonight your posts are especially delightful. Thanks again. It has been a great read.

 

[freespeech]

Respectfully snipped by me...

Now that's just not true...DS stated when she launched Maxie's House that she felt that his death was not an accident. Prior to/during her meetings with CPD she was publicly stating she did not agree with the CPD findings. They stated in the press conference that they would be meeting with CPD.

The Zahau family, mourning their sister and daughter took the only path available to them, and that brought them many experts to help them. Before the SDSO gave their well timed press conference. Since then we have seen multiple media appearances, some timed to be at the airport in a very "paparazzi like" scheduled interview. This is not the high road. This is strategically placed media appearances for the sake of...well maybe a lawsuit. We don't know what will happen. More power to DS if she wants to sue JS, bring on the testimony. There are many people waiting with bated breath to hear these people speak, under oath. Because they will all have to, no one will be exempt.

There are way more layers to this story than what has been published by LE and MSM. We are all just here speculating as to what is true and what is not...

There is truth though that DS and her attorney/PR team orchestrated her media appearances and the timing of the launch of Maxie's House.

inthedark, thank you for shedding light on this speculative matter with your astute and on target analysis.

 

[K_Z]

Does Jewish practice prohibit asking for a police investigation when you are concerned that your child was murdered? What does the religion say about that?

Leiby Kletzky's family is part of a very orthodox Jewish community, and this didn't prevent them from participating fully in the investigation into his abduction, murder, and dismemberment. WHILE they were sitting shiva.

(Google Leiby Kletzky for more information.)

 

[K_Z]

Does Jewish practice prohibit asking for a police investigation when you are concerned that your child was murdered? What does the religion say about that?

Leiby Kletzky's family is part of a very orthodox Jewish group, and this didn't prevent them from participating fully in the investigation into his abduction, murder, and dismemberment. WHILE they were sitting shiva.

(Google Leiby Kletzky for more information.)

 

[freespeech]

Leiby Kletzky's family is part of a very orthodox Jewish group, and this didn't prevent them from participating fully in the investigation into his abduction, murder, and dismemberment. WHILE they were sitting shiva.

(Google Leiby Kletzky for more information.)

K_Z, excellent point. Thank you for posting that info.