MD - Cockeysville teen charged in murders of parents, two brothers *Guilty*

[southcitymom]

What does BTK mean?

The Bind Torture Kill murderer - wasn't that dude an Eagle Scout - I'm pretty sure he was.

 

[deanws]

The Bind Torture Kill murderer - wasn't that dude an Eagle Scout - I'm pretty sure he was.

Thanks. I couldn't figure that out. Yes, he was.

 

[MeoW333]

There seems to be a lot of anger on this thread regarding the boy's age and what should be considered adult punishment. Anger and hatred are not going to help us figure out why he killed. Only in time if he decides to talk will we know.
These children and the "killing business" does not discriminate to any social class or subculture. I'm sure if he showed any oddness or was thought "weird" due to appearance or dress, the community would be stoning him. He is a clean cut boy, normal in appearance. There's no way people can judge people on appearance. Ted Bundy appeared normal also, as someone brought up before. If Nick took to the Goth subculture and wore a trenchcoat, people would be all over this comparing it to Columbine.
Is it the fact that he appeared "normal" and came from a "normal" family that is getting people riled up? It's much scarier when someone who appears "normal" goes off like Nick did than someone who looks different, as there are no physical warning signs and people are quick to judge by appearance.
I agree with SCM that this boy felt something wasn't "normal" about him and took efforts to hide it. What it is, only the future can tell us. Maybe it's something Nick kept to himself, never hinted to anyone and it caused him to "explode". It could have been a number of things he kept inside that built up. I do feel for him in the sense that whatever caused this build up couldn't be deal with prior to prevent it from happening. I also feel for his family who he killed. No one wins in these type of situations.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I hate, hate, hate cases like this because my gut instinct is to protect children and when it involves something of this nature I tend to want to label it, as SCM pointed out.

My first reaction is to believe the kid is a victim, of something or someone! -He must be crazy, or his parents abused him ...why would he do this otherwise?-

My logical thoughts do not think that is the case here with this kid but I still can't stop thinking of him as a victim, because my emotional thoughts say he is a child and children just are not capable of this kind of thing without good reason.

My emotional self tends to be the one who comes to most conclusions and rarely do I struggle with that. This case is turning out to be different for me though and if I don't hear a "good reason" soon I think I might be OK with the system throwing this kid away. Boy, I cannot tell you how strange it feels to feel this way- I'm not big on throwing away humans.

Society as a whole, in order for us to function together, must have morals and limits and consequences and some things just have to not be an option, for anyone. Some of us here have lived through hell, far worse then this kid (if reports about his home life are true) yet we have not crossed that line, nor would we.

 

[Bobbisangel]

At 15, a kid is old enough to call DFS and say they want out. How many kids do you know who have threatened to call when their parents spank them?

Probably most kids from the time they are old enough to call 911 and who know that parents are not to lay a hand on their kids. Mine threatened me when they were young and I said "go ahead and call. They will probably tell me that I should punish you more often!" They were bluffing anyway and would never have called 911 on me.

I know a girl who called 911 and said that her stepfather raped her. He was arrested. The reason that she said that...she had a boyfriend and her parents were moving and she didn't want to move. She had a girlfriend who had been raped and was living with foster parents. The girls concocted the story together and used the foster girls experience as the experience of the other girl who wasn't really raped. At the trial the girls mom got down on her knees before her daughter and begged her to tell the truth. The stepfather was found "Not Guilty" but not because she told the truth. It also ruined her stepfather who was not a well or young man. The girl was placed into foster care. To top the story off...the girl who had actually been raped and placed into foster care..the girlfriend..ended up marrying the other girl's boyfriend! The girl ruined lives and didn't even get her man!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If he was in Texas he could be tried as an adult and the death penalty could be sought. I guess we will once again disagree. He was big enough to shoot the gun, he is big enough to die IMO.

No, not even here in Texas could the state seek the death penalty against anyone younger than 18 years of age.

 

[deanws]

No, not even here in Texas could the state seek the death penalty against anyone younger than 18 years of age.

No, we are both wrong.....
http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/vlibrary/outlines/deathpenprint.html

In Texas, the district courts have original jurisdiction for all criminal felony cases. If an individual is convicted of a capital felony, he or she may be subject to punishment by death, if the State sought such punishment. A capital felony is one in which an individual "intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual," under special circumstances. In particular, the:
# murder of a public safety officer, firefighter, or correctional employee;
# murder during the commission of specified felonies (kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated rape, arson);
# murder for remuneration; multiple murders;
# murder during prison escape; murder of a correctional officer;
# murder by a state prison inmate who is serving a life sentence for any of five offenses; [or]
# murder of an individual under six years of age1.

In Texas, a person must be of at least 17 years of age at the time of the crime to have the death penalty imposed upon him or her2.

 

[deanws]

Ok...law changed in 2005 for Texas
In 2005, for instance, the court struck down the death penalty for people under age 18. Three years earlier it ruled against executing the mentally retarded.

http://blogs.chron.com/texaspolitics/archives/2007/02/sex_offenders_d.html

The laws change like the weather here in Texas!
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

 

[MeoW333]

What is Maryland's policy on putting to death those who are underage and minors when the crime occurred? Technically he would be 15 years old when the crimes were committed and a lawyer would argue that in court.

 

[MeoW333]

"At the outset of the Beltway sniper prosecutions, the primary reason for extraditing the two suspects from Maryland, where they were arrested, to Virginia, was the differences in how the two states deal with the death penalty. While the death penalty is allowed in Maryland, it is only applied to persons who were adults at the time of their crimes, whereas Virginia had also allowed the death penalty for offenders who had been juveniles when their crimes were committed."
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons

So since this case was only in Maryland and it wasn't federal cross state lines, i think he will be spared the death penalty.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Majority Opinion
By a vote of 5-4, the U.S. Supreme Court on March 1, 2005 held that the Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments forbid the execution of offenders who were under the age of 18 when their crimes were committed.

Justice Kennedy, writing for the majority (Kennedy, Breyer, Ginsburg, Souter, and Stevens, JJ.) stated:


When a juvenile offender commits a heinous crime, the State can exact forfeiture of some of the most basic liberties, but the State cannot extinguish his life and his potential to attain a mature understanding of his own humanity.


The Court reaffirmed the necessity of referring to “the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society” to determine which punishments are so disproportionate as to be cruel and unusual. The Court reasoned that the rejection of the juvenile death penalty in the majority of states, the infrequent use of the punishment even where it remains on the books, and the consistent trend toward abolition of the juvenile death penalty demonstrated a national consensus against the practice. The Court determined that today our society views juveniles as categorically less culpable than the average criminal.

Reliance on Atkins
The Court outlined the similarities between its analysis of the constitutionality of executing juvenile offenders and the constitutionality of executing the mentally retarded. Prior to 2002, the Court had refused to categorically exempt mentally retarded persons from capital punishment. Penry v. Lynaugh, 492 U.S. 302 (1989). However, in Atkins v. Virginia, 536 U.S. 304 (2002), the Court held that standards of decency had evolved in the 13 years since Penry and that a national consensus had formed against such executions, demonstrating that the execution of the mentally retarded is cruel and unusual punishment.

Before this historic ruling, the Court concluded in 1989 in Stanford v. Kentucky, 492 U.S. 361 (1989), that the execution of 16- and 17-year-old offenders was not constitutionally barred. The Court now concludes that since Stanford, a national consensus has formed against the execution of juvenile offenders, and the practice violates society’s “evolving standards of decency.” The Court overruled its decision in Stanford, thereby setting the minimum age for eligibility for the death penalty at 18.


more at:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=38&did=885

 

[deanws]

Yeah....I posted that link in post 168.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Yeah....I posted that link in post 168.

I thought the case law may be interesting!!

 

[deanws]

I thought the case law may be interesting!!

I know for a while, Texas had a halt to the death penalty while it was being reevaluated. Is there still a halt or are we juicing again?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I know for a while, Texas had a halt to the death penalty while it was being reevaluated. Is there still a halt or are we juicing again?

Karl Chamberlain is scheduled for February 21st, so I think we're a go. Of coruse, he may receive a last minute stay, so don't get too excited! LOL

 

[deanws]

Karl Chamberlain is scheduled for February 21st, so I think we're a go. Of coruse, he may receive a last minute stay, so don't get too excited! LOL

Ok..I will TRY to contain my excitement. :bang: Is he the first to be scheduled since all this "it is inhumane punishment" bull crap started? I find it funny that it "hurts" and is "cruel" to kill them, yet they seem to have no problem killing their victims. Wonder if they were thinking about their "cruel and inhumane" treatment of the victims at the time they were slaughtering them? I bet not.:furious:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Ok..I will TRY to contain my excitement. :bang: Is he the first to be scheduled since all this "it is inhumane punishment" bull crap started? I find it funny that it "hurts" and is "cruel" to kill them, yet they seem to have no problem killing their victims. Wonder if they were thinking about their "cruel and inhumane" treatment of the victims at the time they were slaughtering them? I bet not.:furious:

I seriously doubt that they've ever thought about anyone but themselves. They create so many victims with their crimes. I believe that he is the first to be scheduled since the "ouch, it hurts too bad" break in the action. Hopefully, we can get back on track and clean house.

 

[deanws]

I seriously doubt that they've ever thought about anyone but themselves. They create so many victims with their crimes. I believe that he is the first to be scheduled since the "ouch, it hurts too bad" break in the action. Hopefully, we can get back on track and clean house.

I hope so...and may child killers, cop killers, and the ones who rape be at the top of the list.

:furious:

 

[MeoW333]

I hope so...and may child killers, cop killers, and the ones who rape be at the top of the list.

:furious:

We should put them all together on a cell block and just let them all have a go at one another. It'll save taxpayer money also.

 

[deanws]

We should put them all together on a cell block and just let them all have a go at one another. It'll save taxpayer money also.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Good plan MeoW! MeoW for president!