MD - Cockeysville teen charged in murders of parents, two brothers *Guilty*

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not sure why you think that questioning the "why" and "sympathy" have anything in common. None of us here have ever said once that we feel sorry for this kid or think that he should escape punishment. However, he is only 15 years old and we don't execute children. So, while we're all upset, we can see that taking him out back and killing him isn't going to be the answer. If there are any lessons to be learned from all of this, and most people believe that there are, maybe we can try and figure out what they are.

 

[NoKoolaidKid]

I'm not sure why you think that questioning the "why" and "sympathy" have anything in common. None of us here have ever said once that we feel sorry for this kid or think that he should escape punishment. However, he is only 15 years old and we don't execute children. So, while we're all upset, we can see that taking him out back and killing him isn't going to be the answer. If there are any lessons to be learned from all of this, and most people believe that there are, maybe we can try and figure out what they are.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to indicate that everyone here was feeling sympathy for him. I was speaking generally. I have read news articles of people who just want to hug him and seen sympathy being displayed for poor Nick and comments that his dad would want him to have a good defense. I didn't mean to indicate anyone here and I apologize. I should have been clearer with my comment. Please forgive me.

One other thing. I'm not advocating to go out and kill him. I think LWOP would be fine. I just don't want to see him get some light sentence with the "he's only 15 and we don't know what goes on behind closed doors" defense. I already see people coming out to try to excuse this on his age. When someone can stand over their family and pump a bullet into them, they lose that "kid" status to me.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to indicate that everyone here was feeling sympathy for him. I was speaking generally. I have read news articles of people who just want to hug him and seen sympathy being displayed for poor Nick and comments that his dad would want him to have a good defense. I didn't mean to indicate anyone here and I apologize. I should have been clearer with my comment. Please forgive me.

One other thing. I'm not advocating to go out and kill him. I think LWOP would be fine. I just don't want to see him get some light sentence with the "he's only 15 and we don't know what goes on behind closed doors" defense. I already see people coming out to try to excuse this on his age. When someone can stand over their family and pump a bullet into them, they lose that "kid" status to me.

I agree and very seriously doubt that he'll get a light sentence. I've got three kids and can't imagine any of them doing anything like this, but I also can't imagine them being shunned by society forever, no matter what they've done. I guess for us armchair quaterbacks, its pretty easy for us to say what we'd do and what we wouldn't do, but in my opinion, a 15-year old kid still needs love and guidance, even after what this guy has done.

 

[southcitymom]

It is a heartbreaking story and I do have tremendous sympathy for Nick. There are no winners here.

As far as theories of why - I'm still leaning towards Jeana's theory that Nick was an overachiever who felt like nothing he could do was enough (particularly for his father). That's simplistic, of course, and I'm sure there are more layers, but it makes sense to me with what I know about this case.

Peace to all the remaining friends and family.

 

[NoKoolaidKid]

I agree and very seriously doubt that he'll get a light sentence. I've got three kids and can't imagine any of them doing anything like this, but I also can't imagine them being shunned by society forever, no matter what they've done. I guess for us armchair quaterbacks, its pretty easy for us to say what we'd do and what we wouldn't do, but in my opinion, a 15-year old kid still needs love and guidance, even after what this guy has done.

I'm sure love and guidance is what his parents tried to give him.
Something tells me this boy is not open to love and guidance.
I'm sure his folks never imagined he'd do something like this and I pray they never got to see him before he did it.

I understand what you're saying though. It's hard to fathom how he could not realize he was ruining his own life as well as taking theirs. I guess he thought he'd get by with it. After all, he did set up an alibi and in his 15 year old wisdom it would look like a robbery gone bad while he was away with friends. How stupid!

So, what lessons do you think can be learned from this? Any thoughts?

 

[NoKoolaidKid]

It is a heartbreaking story and I do have tremendous sympathy for Nick. There are no winners here.

As far as theories of why - I'm still leaning towards Jeana's theory that Nick was an overachiever who felt like nothing he could do was enough (particularly for his father). That's simplistic, of course, and I'm sure there are more layers, but it makes sense to me with what I know about this case.

Peace to all the remaining friends and family.

Can you explain your feelings of sympathy for him? I'm just curious.
I can somewhat feel sympathy to a 15 year old in trouble, but then he's a murdering 15 year old and I'm having a hard time feeling sympathetic to him.. It just sounds like putting the blame on the victims to say he could not do enough to please them, which we don't even know yet. What if it turns out that he was just a demanding, spoiled, entitled, ungrateful brat and wanted them out of his way so he could have their money and have no authority over him? Would you still feel tremendous sympathy for him? Just curious. I think what one believes may have been the reason may account for why there could be some sympathy.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm sure love and guidance is what his parents tried to give him.
Something tells me this boy is not open to love and guidance.
I'm sure his folks never imagined he'd do something like this and I pray they never got to see him before he did it.

I understand what you're saying though. It's hard to fathom how he could not realize he was ruining his own life as well as taking theirs. I guess he thought he'd get by with it. After all, he did set up an alibi and in his 15 year old wisdom it would look like a robbery gone bad while he was away with friends. How stupid!

So, what lessons do you think can be learned from this? Any thoughts?

Well, I'm not sure. I think anytime a young kid goes this far off the deep end, there must have been some warning signs. I believe the stigma of emotional illness is such that many people won't seek out treatment for themselves or their children. Maybe they fear that it will follow them and hinder them in some way. So many people are affected by mental illness these days that I honestly think that the stigma needs to be removed. Maybe that's the lesson. I'm no expert, so this is just my own opinion.

 

[Littledeer]

I'm not trying to start anything here with what I am going to post.......just STOMPING.....

From all accounts, this appears to be a middle class to upper class family. Nice house, probably good income since father was an attorney. Three boys, who by all accounts were good kids, involved in sports, Boy Scouts, etc.

If this was the same scenario say 10 + years ago, I don't think Nick would have reacted in using a gun because of some type of punishment he thought he got from his father (Not using his vehicle). But in the last 10 + years, kids have heard/seen so many gun killings being done by teenagers and adults against family members as if, just killing them is going to solve whatever "petty" issue(s) they have.

With parents losing their income base every day, we are spending less time with our kids and more time in trying to make money just to have a roof and food for them every day, along with all the other essentials.

It's a no win situation..........unless something changes it will only get worse IMO..........not better.

On that note, I'm off to sharpen my antlers to be more POSITIVE!!!

 

[MeoW333]

I think the warning signs in this case were ignored. I'm not sure if the family's influence in the community and their position had anything to do with it or not, i think it may. We have a 15 year old who comes from a good family that has a good reputation. He is at the age where he wants to become more independent. He seemed to want to leave his cubs scouts position yet his father wanted him to stay in. So there is conflict between what Nick wants to do and what his father wants of him. This probably could have been solved in family therapy, yet i'm not sure in their setting social and otherwise, what the family would have though about going to therapy. Some people would be against it thinking it would somehow tarnish their reputation. Also i agree with what LittleDeer said about how we are hearing all the time about children using guns nowadays as a way to solve their problems. It seems to be a trend, instigated by the media in their constant reports of it. What it comes down to is why Nick chose to shoot and murder his whole family instead of seeking help somewhere for the issues he was dealing with. There are a ton of kids out there who are in his situation yet do not kill their family. So there's got to be more dynamics that come into play that cause them to kill. With Nick being the oldest and firstborn, there was probably more pressure on him than his brothers and he resented his brothers and father about it. He maybe resented his mother if she didn't take his side in arguments with his father.
The warning signs Nick showed, as on the school bus talking about killing his family, cursing about his father, bullying his younger brothers, all went ignored. Possibly they went ignored since this young man came from an upper middle class background and family with no obvious problems, so people took what he said with a grain of salt.

 

[Greywing]

I'm not trying to start anything here with what I am going to post.......just STOMPING.....

From all accounts, this appears to be a middle class to upper class family. Nice house, probably good income since father was an attorney. Three boys, who by all accounts were good kids, involved in sports, Boy Scouts, etc.

If this was the same scenario say 10 + years ago, I don't think Nick would have reacted in using a gun because of some type of punishment he thought he got from his father (Not using his vehicle). But in the last 10 + years, kids have heard/seen so many gun killings being done by teenagers and adults against family members as if, just killing them is going to solve whatever "petty" issue(s) they have.

With parents losing their income base every day, we are spending less time with our kids and more time in trying to make money just to have a roof and food for them every day, along with all the other essentials.

It's a no win situation..........unless something changes it will only get worse IMO..........not better.

On that note, I'm off to sharpen my antlers to be more POSITIVE!!!

And I agree with you Littledeer ...

 

[NoKoolaidKid]

I think the scary part is the fact that this seemed to be a "good family". Reading the descriptions of the family, including Nick himself, reminds me of too many families I personally know myself. My community is full of families like this.

Personally, I don't think it's just a gun issue. I believe it's a breakdown of the family. Kids are raised in sports and on video games. Families are in the same house, but not together. Kids sit around playing video games, and when they are away from the house, they are so involved in so many extracurricular activities that everyone is running here and there for practices or games. Where is the family time? And as mentioned, parents are out there trying to make a living, but what exactly does that mean? Why do we have to have everything? Why do we have to give our children everything? Families could live on less money, but then they'd have to give up some of the luxuries. So we trade off family time for luxuries.

We all were 15 at one time. And believe me, I'm sure we were all forced to do things we didn't want to do when we were 15. At 15 I still respected my parents and would not have even thought of crossing them. While I blame Nick for this, I do also blame society. We don't let kids be kids any longer and so many parents are living their lives through their kids. So many kids are pushed in sports to be "the best". I see it every day. I hear the parents brag about their "sports star". And we've dumbed down parents (Are you smarter than a 5th Grader comes to mind). We have put kids wants above common sense and let them manipulate us. Yes, I think kids manipulate their parents. Kids think they're smarter than their parents. I never felt that way. As I did mature I was surprised when I realized I probably was smarter because I had the opportunity for a better education than them. But, I realized how wise they were without the "book smarts".

IMO, this kid had too much given to him. Why are parents giving their kids cars for their 16th birthday, or even BEFORE their birthdays? Whatever happened to kids getting a job and earning money to buy their own car? Why do we think we have to GIVE them everything? What values are they being taught? We are doing them no favors by giving, giving, giving. A lot can be learned by working to earn things yourself.

Furthermore, I think our kids have been desensitized with the daily doses of violence they see in movies, music, and video games. Human life is not valued today. Yeah, I know people don't want to hear that. To admit it might mean we would need to give up some things. It's easier to blame a gun, but I believe it's a condition of ones heart.

I feel sorry that kids grow up too fast today and are not taught the value of earning things for themselves or the value of not always getting what you want. It's a ME,ME,Me world and in spite of all the material things children are given, are they truly happy? I do not feel sorry for someone who decided that wiping out his family would benefit him.

I don't believe this is about guns. I believe it is about the condition of our hearts and souls. And I believe it is a result of the breakdown of our families.

 

[deanws]

Killing the two younger siblings is what makes me have NO sympathy for him. WTH did THEY have to do with him being upset with his father!!?!

 

[MeoW333]

" I don't believe this is about guns. I believe it is about the condition of our hearts and souls. And I believe it is a result of the breakdown of our families."

I think you are right on target with that NoKoolAid, and that it is the cause of many crimes we read about on here. It will continue to be the cause until we do something about it. There is hardly the mentality of "it takes a whole village to raise a child" anymore, people turn a blind eye to things that doesn't concern them, children are getting lost in the shuffle. If parents aren't raising their children up right, others are unwilling to get involved. Extended families are consisting of gangs and other things that are not neighbors or family of children that should be keeping an eye on them or helping out, due to lack of people wanting to get involved.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

IMO, this kid had too much given to him. Why are parents giving their kids cars for their 16th birthday, or even BEFORE their birthdays? Whatever happened to kids getting a job and earning money to buy their own car? Why do we think we have to GIVE them everything? What values are they being taught? We are doing them no favors by giving, giving, giving. A lot can be learned by working to earn things yourself.

Well I can understand your feelings, in my own family the cars are earned. My oldest son had the choice . . . do well in school, etc., and we'll buy you a car, insurance, etc. Don't do well in school and you won't even be allowed to get your driver's license. He decided not to do well, so he didn't get a car until he was 19 and could buy it himself. My second son is going to be 15 this summer. He's a straight-A student, involved in band, football, community service, etc. He will be given a car because he's earned it. Now, don't get me wrong. MANY of his classmates drive BMWs or the like. My son will not be getting an $80,000 vehicle when he's 16, but he'll be given a decent car. I feel that he has earned it. And, if he continues to do well, he'll continue to earn it. My feeling is that by going for the scholarships that he's attempting to get and is working really hard for, I'll be teaching him the value of hard work at a young age and hopefully can save about $40,000 a year in college fees.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

" I don't believe this is about guns. I believe it is about the condition of our hearts and souls. And I believe it is a result of the breakdown of our families."

I think you are right on target with that NoKoolAid, and that it is the cause of many crimes we read about on here. It will continue to be the cause until we do something about it. There is hardly the mentality of "it takes a whole village to raise a child" anymore, people turn a blind eye to things that doesn't concern them, children are getting lost in the shuffle. If parents aren't raising their children up right, others are unwilling to get involved. Extended families are consisting of gangs and other things that are not neighbors or family of children that should be keeping an eye on them or helping out, due to lack of people wanting to get involved.

I think the guns played a part in it only because they were made available, which should NEVER happen.

 

[deanws]

Well I can understand your feelings, in my own family the cars are earned. My oldest son had the choice . . . do well in school, etc., and we'll buy you a car, insurance, etc. Don't do well in school and you won't even be allowed to get your driver's license. He decided not to do well, so he didn't get a car until he was 19 and could buy it himself. My second son is going to be 15 this summer. He's a straight-A student, involved in band, football, community service, etc. He will be given a car because he's earned it. Now, don't get me wrong. MANY of his classmates drive BMWs or the like. My son will not be getting an $80,000 vehicle when he's 16, but he'll be given a decent car. I feel that he has earned it. And, if he continues to do well, he'll continue to earn it. My feeling is that by going for the scholarships that he's attempting to get and is working really hard for, I'll be teaching him the value of hard work at a young age and hopefully can save about $40,000 a year in college fees.

If he is a straight A student and has great SAT or ACT scores, you will save much more than that. My son has gotten all but one semester paid in full because he is a super student. The semester he didn't get it paid for was because he changed colleges so he had to wait a semester to get admitted into their Honors program. However, there aren't ANY deals on medical school! I am glad that he at least got the first part of his education paid for.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If he is a straight A student and has great SAT or ACT scores, you will save much more than that. My son has gotten all but one semester paid in full because he is a super student. The semester he didn't get it paid for was because he changed colleges so he had to wait a semester to get admitted into their Honors program. However, there aren't ANY deals on medical school! I am glad that he at least got the first part of his education paid for.

AMEN!!!! I think that's fantastic!!! Congratulations!!

Since my daughter is only a couple of years behind him, it would be nice to know that they can both go to the colleges that they've been dreaming of and we can still afford to eat once in a while!!!!

 

[MeoW333]

I think the guns played a part in it only because they were made available, which should NEVER happen.

They were made available, yet would he have used another method of killing or would he have stolen a gun or got one elsewhere if they weren't available at his home? I'm not sure of the answer, as there have been cases of children who've killed their parents without guns. It certainly would of made it much harder for him to kill them without a gun, yet the question as to whether or not he would have killed them with another method lies within him.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

They were made available, yet would he have used another method of killing or would he have stolen a gun or got one elsewhere if they weren't available at his home? I'm not sure of the answer, as there have been cases of children who've killed their parents without guns. It certainly would of made it much harder for him to kill them without a gun, yet the question as to whether or not he would have killed them with another method lies within him.

You're right about that.

 

[deanws]

AMEN!!!! I think that's fantastic!!! Congratulations!!

Since my daughter is only a couple of years behind him, it would be nice to know that they can both go to the colleges that they've been dreaming of and we can still afford to eat once in a while!!!!

I hear ya!! LOL!:crazy: