MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[Wise Old Owl]

Back to murder vs. manslaughter

2nd degree - not premeditated but an assault brutal enough to KNOW you are probably going to kill (or injure severely enough) for the victim to die. Kinda like attacking someone with a claw hammer type thing.

Manslaughter - assault that was ended in death - without the attacker knowing (or realizing) death was possible. Like a bar fight where the guy you punch falls and cracks his head on the corner of the pool table and dies.

So, again I truly don't understand the murder charge

As for the false imprisonment - he was arrested illegally - therefore it was false imprisonment to put him in the van.




JHMO

 

[ZooSleuth]

BREAKING: Police union: 6 officers aren't responsible for Freddie Gray's death, were diligent in case.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/594158032965238784

Of course they are saying this. This is the problem with police in America. They seem to ALWAYS support other officers despite obvious indications of wrongdoing. Maybe they were overcharged, but there is no excuse for them not getting him medical help.

 

[murphy3k]

I have never seen somebody be charged with both murder and manslaughter. Also, they are charging people with both manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter??

Here are the official charges according to this link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...e-gray-mosby-presser-0502-20150501-story.html

Officer Caesar Goodson Jr., 45, second-degree murder, manslaughter, second-degree assault, two vehicular manslaughter charges and misconduct in office.

Officer William Porter, 25, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian Rice, 41, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Sgt. Alicia White, 30, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Officer Edward Nero, 29, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Officer Garrett Miller, 26, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Only the driver, Officer Goodson, was charged with lesser-included offenses, which is quite common in criminal cases where the facts fit multiple criminal offenses. Other officers were charged with involuntary manslaughter, not both. MOO.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Here are the official charges according to this link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...e-gray-mosby-presser-0502-20150501-story.html

Officer Caesar Goodson Jr., 45, second-degree murder, manslaughter, second-degree assault, two vehicular manslaughter charges and misconduct in office.

Officer William Porter, 25, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian Rice, 41, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Sgt. Alicia White, 30, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Officer Edward Nero, 29, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Officer Garrett Miller, 26, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Only the driver, Officer Goodson, was charged with lesser-included offenses, which is quite common in criminal cases where the facts fit multiple criminal offenses. Other officers were charged with either vehicular manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter, not both. MOO.

Thanks. There was a post on the last page that said Alicia White was charged with manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.

 

[gitana1]

Six careers ruined.

One life gone.

 

[jjenny]

IDK...that does not jive with the other occupant's statement as he described it as a "smooth ride," and it seems as if FG was still moving about in some kind of fashion while the other guy was also in the van.

This is why I don't like how angry she seemed, as well as her comments about her "personal opinions" in response to some of the questions.

Her comments at the end seemed to invalidate her earlier ones that stated these officers are not a reflection of the whole department.

Now I really wish I could find that timeline that was outlined on the Kelly file last night.

But the other occupant was only there for a portion of the ride, in the end.

 

[popsicle]

Back to murder vs. manslaughter

2nd degree - not premeditated but an assault brutal enough to KNOW you are probably going to kill (or injure severely enough) for the victim to die. Kinda like attacking someone with a claw hammer type thing.

Manslaughter - assault that was ended in death - without the attacker knowing (or realizing) death was possible. Like a bar fight where the guy you punch falls and cracks his head on the corner of the pool table and dies.

So, again I truly don't understand the murder charge

As for the false imprisonment - he was arrested illegally - therefore it was false imprisonment to put him in the van.




JHMO

"Depraved heart murder" - Killing someone in a way that demonstrates a callous disregard for the value of human life.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/murder

 

[jjenny]

Well, this should stop all rioting , right?
Something tells me that's wishful thinking but in a perfect world.
I'm very surprised at the murder charge.

This could result in more rioting if convictions aren't obtained. Frankly, if the theory is that Mr. Gray was injured during the van ride, why are the ones not driving the van charged with manslaughter or assault?

 

[scmom]

I don't believe every LEO makes 100% correct calls in every case. But I also don't believe that all of these officers charged will be convicted. I also see both sides, having dealt with arrogance from a LEO after being stopped and also having family in LE.

 

[gitana1]

And, yet, even though I agree with her, she had to bring up the grandfather, and his racial accolades. STOP it, FGS. A crime is a crime and people are people, or so I hear from certain quarters.

I thought her statements were calculated and brilliant. And while you may think a crime is a crime and people are people, that's not how it is for millions of Americans in the United States who typically face a completely separate system of justice than the majority.

 

[scmom]

One life gone.

No, more than one life is gone. Only one is no longer here on this earth. Life, for the officers and their families, has been forever altered. Not because of being convicted of a crime at this point, but for being accused of crimes. And of course the lives of many others in LE will be affected. And not to be unfair, many other innocent lives have been affected.

 

[Trident]

Nope not a typo!! lol

YOU should be put away! j/k

 

[LietKynes]

Well, this should stop all rioting , right?
Something tells me that's wishful thinking but in a perfect world.
I'm very surprised at the murder charge.

SABBM

Agreed. Correct me if I'm wrong... but to charge with murder there must be solid evidence, right ? Because if this prosecutor charges these six with insufficient evidence--- couldn't these cops walk ? Not saying they should--if they're guilty.
But, ALL SIX of them ?
And what about the interior of the police van being 'smooth' ; and without visible bolts ?
This case is baffling.
MOO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The only thing I don't like about this is she seems very angry, which infers it's way too personal.

Like how Chief Longo was during the Hannah Graham case?

 

[Peliman]

Here are the official charges according to this link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...e-gray-mosby-presser-0502-20150501-story.html

Officer Caesar Goodson Jr., 45, second-degree murder, manslaughter, second-degree assault, two vehicular manslaughter charges and misconduct in office.

Officer William Porter, 25, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian Rice, 41, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Sgt. Alicia White, 30, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Officer Edward Nero, 29, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Officer Garrett Miller, 26, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Only the driver, Officer Goodson, was charged with lesser-included offenses, which is quite common in criminal cases where the facts fit multiple criminal offenses. Other officers were charged with involuntary manslaughter, not both. MOO.

Here's the part I don't get yet. Bolded should show the highest ranking officer who I believe was involved in the original arrest. (Please correct me if wrong.) Anyway, he's the highest rank and officer too. It's his position to evaluate and give orders to lower ranking staff.

I'm wondering if other officers were following his orders to some extent. I'm wondering how this all went down like who put him under arrest for the knife. etc... wondering out loud.

 

[MissSunshine]

Open letter to SA from FOP

https://mobile.twitter.com/FOP3/status/594147983731490820/photo/1

Says husband's political future can be greatly impacted, either for the better or the worse, based upon her investigations.

Her hubby is the Councilman for the district it happened.

 

[Trident]

I thought her statements were calculated and brilliant. And while you may think a crime is a crime and people are people, that's not how it is for millions of Americans in the United States who typically face a completely separate system of justice than the majority.

I'm a white old lady and proud of it. I probably make less money than many of the protestors. I have been given very little for free while raising 4 legitimate children. I have been given tickets while trying to race to work to support my children by working. I worked myself to the bone while getting NO child support from ex hubby. Tell me about "justice".

That said, I want justice for all, but I do not want riots and excuses for bad behavior or ****s. That is going too far. The clock is now running backwards, although I am glad to see those people smile at what justice they think they won. Truth is - is there little justice for ANY of us.

In my opinion

 

[popsicle]

Like how Chief Longo was during the Hannah Graham case?

Longo isn't a DA or SA but an investigator. Very different imo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Longo isn't a DA or SA but an investigator. Very different imo

He was called passionate. Mosby is called angry. Why the difference?

 

[Sonya610]

They'll probably riot with happiness. Yeah, I am torn up about ALL of this and not just this case. I want so bad to be fair, love, and see justice done, but. . .

First off, they riot because it is FUN and they can get "free" stuff.

Secondly, now they can justify rioting because supposedly the cops really DID mistreat Gray.