MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

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  • #1,341
What I'm really anxious for is the autopsy report b/c from what I can determine the "80% severed spinal cord and crushed larynx " is laungauage coming from the family's lawyer(s).

It's been shown many times that what these lawyers state on CNN et al is often a far cry from the truth. Not saying this is definitely the case this time, but we just don't know.

The state attorney indicated today that she had the medical examiners report etc. - he was the one that declared it a homicide - so more stuff will come out - IMO its a pretty (sadly) big deal when bad cops get arrested, so I can only conclude that there is much , behind the scenes nonsense that has been going on, not yet released.

To chaqrge all 6 is even IMO, more indicative there is much more to know- the fact that the driver was the only one who took the fifth is also telling (in terms of how he was driving the van). After a couple of days passed they then moved the story to "someting happened in the van"> If you recall in the beginning of the story it was about his legs not working. There has to be a reason why they moved it "to the van" and continued to lie about the mystery stop.
 
  • #1,342
Not being snarky - herion does not crunch ones larynex nor sever spinal cords!! No correlation whatsoever IMO

But, it will make you do things you normally wouldn't. According to Freddie's bail bondsman, Freddie did not do drugs. So, if he swallowed heroin it could be a contributing factor to his going nuts in the back of the van.
 
  • #1,343
The problem is, she set the bar HIGH, and chances are pretty good that not all of them are going to stick.

As I've said in many posts the statute of what a switchblade is could hamper the charges of illegal arrest. If that goes down, those two officers walk. If that happens Baltimore will be burnt to the ground. It will lay at Mosby's feet, because she doesn't know what a knife is.

The high bar is a concern. The bike officers were also involved with checking on FG in the van when the driver wanted to check on him. The charges that will stick will be about his asking for medical care. I also hope she has done her research thoroughly.
 
  • #1,344
  • #1,345
With all that's known so far, I think these six Police Officers are innocent and are being railroaded. I hope there will be a special prosecutor appointed along with a change of venue, or I fear these cops will never get a fair trial. I think FG did this to himself not realizing the risk he was taking and died as a result. There is a FB page up in support for these Police Officers with thousands of likes so far.

https://www.facebook.com/supportthebaltimoresix/timeline

I want justice one way or another. If the officers are guilty they deserve to go to jail. If not, I hope they walk. But, I HOPE this Prosecutor remains at the helm. She started this, she needs to finish it. She's young. She presents well, I just don't think she has the experience to know the "law" of the law.

She speaks the way I've heard many pundits speak, the way the law should be, not the way it is.

For example: Unless you're blind it's obvious that when Gray is being put in the van that he's standing on his foot before being put in the van. But, the Mayor and many others say he was obviously hurt and couldn't get into the van by himself. They're just WRONG. Things like that will turn a fair jury off. Because you have to have tunnel vision to not see the truth of Gray's foot. He later had to have his legs shackled.
 
  • #1,346
Does anyone think that State's Attorney Mosby overcharged some or all of the Officers so that a future jury can vote guilty on lesser charges?

Or to try and force a plea agreement? Is a trial certain in this case?

Are the charges reasonable with what we know or do we need to know more before making that determination?
 
  • #1,347
  • #1,348
Hi Taste!

I am looking at it in its entirity. There can be no way the second stop could have been a mystery to LE. In most instances people lie or keep secrets for a reason. If you go back and look at the intial pressers when they were releasing the timeline they kept saying we are trying to piece it together. Its a vehicle with dispatch (!) - and logs and stuff. I think whatever happened, happened between being placed in and (Just IMO - I think he was viewed as acting up, so they slammed the brakes, ran and looked at in, saw him on the floor but continued to believe he was just acting out)

But in all honesty those screams when they sttarted moving him sounded pretty awful too me the first time i saw and heard them. Excurating pain.

It is my sense, that they did not know until yesterday a private video existed of the hidden, lied about, not disclosed, and covered up mystery stop. Things moved quickly since they found out about the video of the mystery shop - and within 24 indicments made.

I think there is much signifgance here.

But just as a human being, hearing someone screaming in pain should result in some sort of at least pause in dragging another human around - its just "humane"

If one really looks at it - someone having trouble breahting, reporting they have asthma, need help and being drivin around town for another 45 minutes - in and of itself is, IMO, just not ok. Much less so for a population that has been exposed to some medical training.

It was just overt cruelity to another human being cop or not, there was a cold indifference to this child which resulted in a young man being dead.

Its just not ok..........................IMO

Hello Cariis......interesting situation indeed as the world is watching. First, I don't feel that FG was a child. Second, I don't feel this is an issue about race but more of an issue about the vast divide in our socioeconomic strata that we live with in the States. I can empathize with those trying to overcome vast hurdles within the realms of opportunities, financial & academic success....often times generational poverty & illiteracy. Hope fades while the media/movies/music glorify a gangster life. A lie, of course.

But there comes a point where a person may become so distraught that they resort to crime & drugs. Then there will be the inevitable arrests which leads to career criminals after repetitive incarcerations: all sad for the individual & burdensome to the communities of which they reside in. They create fear in neighborhoods. They form gangs which gives strength to more criminal acts. The innocent victim counts soar.
This is what I see & it is very sad.

I tend not to blame police 'cause they have a tough job & by-and-large try to keep order in a world where things can turn to chaos very rapidly....almost in a blink of an eye.

And if I had to call for help (911), I would like to have LE answer the call. No cops equals total social disorder. Leaving orderliness up to local gang hoodlums won't play out so well. That's why, in general I try to support LE.

Moo
 
  • #1,349
Slightly O/T and not related to Mr. Gray's case, but for the purpose of understanding "police" brutality vs. "gang" brutality: it would be interesting to look at the statistics in Baltimore neighborhood you mentioned of homicide/deaths caused by individual LE, homicides/deaths caused by gangs, homicides/deaths caused by drug overdose and other homicides. I wonder if there would be more "police" related or "gang" related deaths. Statistics can put issues at least in terms of the Baltimore protests, in better perspective and objective based. Jmo/

Here is a list of all the murders in Baltimore up until April 30. All 74 of them with Mr. Gray included in the list. No other LE has been suspected of these murders but neither has anyone else for majority of them.

http://chamspage.blogspot.com/2014/12/2015-baltimore-city-homicidesmurders.html?m=1

The last LE accused death I can think of is Tyrone West in 2014. Could have been others but I don't recall.
 
  • #1,350
  • #1,351
A rotation is to move people around doing the same or related work - in a different location or capacity. Rotations do not involve taking people out of their chosen vocation. Nixon is a perfect example of why.

I would want bad cops removed permantly, not moved to a desk job and then back to were they can harm someone. Nixon is an example of why someone needs to lose their job not be rotated.

Sorry, rotation is not a good idea.

JMO.
 
  • #1,352
<modsnip>

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/?

Well, here's a link from the Baltimore Sun, looks like there are 23 murders for 2015 in city so far...but I didn't check it out too much. Jmo/

So because gang members and drug dealers kill each other more often than a police officer kills someone, it shouldn't be a big deal???? Or what exactly is it you are trying to say??

You cannot possibly believe what you are saying!! Police officers are supposed to uphold the law. So when one breaks it, it is even more heinous!
 
  • #1,353
I noticed that too, when I looked it up last night.

Did you see the discrepancies in ages? One report says 22 and one says 38
 
  • #1,354
The high bar is a concern. The bike officers were also involved with checking on FG in the van when the driver wanted to check on him. The charges that will stick will be about his asking for medical care. I also hope she has done her research thoroughly.

This is something I'm confused about. There's 6 cops, but how do they all play into the story. The bike cops arrested him. But, what did they do with the bikes if they got into the van? If they didn't get into the van then how are they guilty of manslaughter, they had no way of knowing what would happen once he was out of their control. If they showed up to check up on him, did they do it on their bikes? Whose job is it to belt the prisoner in, the driver or the arresting officer?

Was the only cop in the van the driver?

I'm not set on who was where at what time. This is going to be an interesting six cases.

I don't know the link. But, someone did a story on Freddie and being a lead paint baby. His mom was a heroin addict and there's a photo of him as a child next to a disgusting wall in their apartment. It's all around sad.
 
  • #1,355
it's been 23 in the last 30 days though.

74 homicides fit your search criteria. There have been 74 homicides in 2015 to date.

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/index.php?range=2015&district=all&zipcode=all&age=all&gender=all&race=all&cause=all&article=all&show_results=Show+results






<modsnip>

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/?

Well, here's a link from the Baltimore Sun, looks like there are 23 murders for 2015 in city so far...but I didn't check it out too much. Jmo/
 
  • #1,356
So because gang members and drug dealers kill each other more often than a police officer kills someone, it shouldn't be a big deal???? Or what exactly is it you are trying to say??

You cannot possibly believe what you are saying!! Police officers are supposed to uphold the law. So when one breaks it, it is even more heinous!

Most certainly LE should uphold the law and any LE that murders someone should be held accountable. But this case hasn't even gone to court yet, due process etc. I was talking about the protests and putting it in perspective because I don't think the protestors know anymore than anyone else and so this case is like any other. If people want to protest about police brutality in Mr. Gray's neighborhood than may be they should protest all brutality in the neighborhood. PEACEFULLY protesting brutality is always admirable, ALL brutality. Jmo/
 
  • #1,357
Slightly O/T and not related to Mr. Gray's case, but for the purpose of understanding "police" brutality vs. "gang" brutality: it would be interesting to look at the statistics in Baltimore neighborhood you mentioned of homicide/deaths caused by individual LE, homicides/deaths caused by gangs, homicides/deaths caused by drug overdose and other homicides. I wonder if there would be more "police" related or "gang" related deaths. Statistics can put issues at least in terms of the Baltimore protests, in better perspective and objective based. Jmo/

some links:

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/maryland...n-recent-spate-of-baltimore-violence/20764632
JuneJune 2013
The toll from violence in the city climbed again Friday morning with another fatal shooting. In the past week, 14 people have died in three dozen shootings.

The 35th shooting of the week -- 14 fatal and 21 in which victims were injured -- took place early Friday morning in which a man died in the 900 block of Bennett Place in west Baltimore -- the same block where a fatal shooting happened last weekend.

[ 35 gang shootings in ONE WEEK :eek: ]

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...altimore-northwest-baltimore-police-officials

Police officials before council after violent start to 2014
Council members ask top brass what has changed amid rise in homicides

Amid a bloody start to the New Year following a violent 2013, City Council members asked police leaders at a hearing Tuesday whether they've changed something for the worse.

"Baltimore has come too far to let the violence of years past return," said Councilman Brandon Scott, the vice chair of the public safety committee. He called last year a "failure" that citizens shared with police.

The first six days of 2014 saw eight homicides across the city. And while many other large cities saw continued reductions last year, Baltimore recorded 235 homicides, the highest number in four years. Nonfatal shootings also rose for the first time in six years.

Police brass who spoke at the meeting highlighted indictments and arrests that they say have removed from the streets those responsible for several strings of violence that rocked the city. They said they are better deploying foot patrol officers to ensure they aren't just "scarecrows," and said gun enforcement remains a priority.


http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/09/24/report-gang-activity-increasing-throughout-maryland/


Report: Gang Activity Increasing Throughout Maryland
September 24, 2014 5:54 PM

The death of an innocent young father caught in gang crossfire at a bus stop in Baltimore is sending shockwaves through the community&#8212;but it&#8217;s far from the only incident. A report shows gang activity is growing statewide.


At a bus stop on busy Saratoga Street downtown, police say Brandon Finney&#8212;a Shock Trauma technician and father of a 15-month old&#8212;got used as a human shield Sunday when two members of the BGF gang had a shootout with a rival Blood.
 
  • #1,358
Did you see the discrepancies in ages? One report says 22 and one says 38
Yes I did. I also found it interesting that the media was reporting the second passenger was still in jail, while this guy was out doing interviews. It could be a delayed report, but interesting to me, when he is not listed on the sight.
 
  • #1,359
IMO we need to start at the beginning. THey had no reason to chase him. THey then lied about the stuff with the knife. The knife he had was totally legal under their law....

"The knife was not a switchblade, and it is lawful," Mosby said

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/prosecutor-says-no-reason-to-arrest-freddie-gray-2015-5#ixzz3YwuLcUOd


My take is the 5 that did make statements it ultimatly "came out" that there was a lot of "stuff" going in terms of trying to minimize or cover or stuff like that. At this point that sounds like speculation, but for a young driven SA, to put her career on the line when the globe is watching just seems really unlikly. THey know a lot more than we do, and i think at the end of the day a couple of the officers actually told the truth which made all of em particpants in the tragic events that day.

Here, tongight is the first time I heard anything about heroin specfically, but that also IMO does not ring important - to charge 6 cops with a bunch of stuff -- they have to have something more signifgant etc just imo
 
  • #1,360
This is something I'm confused about. There's 6 cops, but how do they all play into the story. The bike cops arrested him. But, what did they do with the bikes if they got into the van? If they didn't get into the van then how are they guilty of manslaughter, they had no way of knowing what would happen once he was out of their control. If they showed up to check up on him, did they do it on their bikes? Whose job is it to belt the prisoner in, the driver or the arresting officer?

Was the only cop in the van the driver?

I'm not set on who was where at what time. This is going to be an interesting six cases.

I don't know the link. But, someone did a story on Freddie and being a lead paint baby. His mom was a heroin addict and there's a photo of him as a child next to a disgusting wall in their apartment. It's all around sad.

http://time.com/3843870/marilyn-mosby-transcript-freddie-gray/

The statement of probable cause is as follows:

On April, 12 2015 between 8:45 and 9:15 a.m., near the corner of North Avenue and Mount Street. Lt. Rice of the Baltimore Police Department while on bike patrol with Officer Garrett Miller and Edward Nero made eye contact with Freddie Carlos Gray Jr.

Having made eye contact with Mr. Gray, Mr. Gray subsequently ran from Lt. Rice. Lt. Rice then dispatched over departmental radio that he was involved in a foot pursuit at which time bike patrol officers and Nero began to pursue Mr. Gray. Having come in contact with pursuing officers, Mr. Gray surrendered to Officers Miller and Nero in the vicinity in the 1700 block of Presbury Street.

Officer Miller and Nero then handcuffed Mr. Gray and moved him to a location a few feet away from his surrendering location Mr. Gray was then placed in a prone position with his arms handcuffed behind his back. It was at this time that Mr. Gray indicated he could not breath and requested an inhaler to no avail. Officer Miller and Nero then placed Mr. Gray in a seated position and substantially found a knife clipped to the inside of his pants pocket. The blade of the knife was folded into the handle. The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law. These officers then removed the knife and placed it on the sidewalk.

Mr. Gray was then placed back down on his stomach at which time Mr. Gray began to flail his legs and scream as Officer Miller placed Mr. Gray in a restraining technique known as a leg lace. While Officer Nero physically held him down against him will while a BPD wagon arrived to transport Mr. Gray.

Lt. Rice, Officer Miller and Officer Nero failed to establish probable cause for Mr. Gray’s arrest as no crime had been committed by Mr. Gray. Accordingly Lt. Rice Officer MIller and Office Nero illegally arrested Mr. Gray. Upon arrival of the transport wagon driven by Officer Caesar Goodson. Lt. Rice Officer Miller and Officer Nero loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order. Lt. Rice then directed the BPD wagon to stop at Baker Street. At Baker Street, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero and Officer Miller removed Mr. Gray from the wagon, placed flexi-cuffs on his wrists, placed leg shackles on his ankles and completed required paperwork.

Officer Miller, Officer Nero and Lt. Rice then loaded Mr. Gray back into the wagon, placing him on his stomach, head first onto the floor of the wagon. Once again Mr. Gray was not secured by a seatbelt in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order.

Lt. Rice then directed Officer Goodson to transport Mr. Gray to the Central Booking & Intake Facility. Following transport from Baker Street, Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon.

From Baker Street, Officer Goodson proceeded to the vicinity of Mosher Street and Fremont Avenue where he subsequently parked the wagon and proceeded to the back of the wagon to observe Mr. Gray. Despite stopping for the purpose of checking on Mr. Gray’s condition, at no point did he seek nor did he render any medical assistance for Mr. Gray. Officer Goodson returned to his driver’s seat and proceed toward the Central Booking & Intake facility with Mr. Gray still unsecured by a seatbelt contrary to a BPD general order.

Several blocks later, Officer Goodson called into dispatch that he needed to check on the status of his prisoner and requested additional units at Dolphin Street and Druid Hill Avenue. Officer William Porter arrived on the scene at Dolphin Street and Druid HIll Avenue. Both Officer Goodson and porter proceeded to the back of the wagon to check on the status of Mr. Gray’s condition. Mr. Gray at that time requested help and indicated that he could not breathe. Officer Porter asked Mr. Gray if he needed a medic at which time Mr. Gray indicated at least twice that he was in need of a medic. Officer Porter then physically assisted Mr. Gray from the floor of the van to the bench however despite Mr. Gray’s appeal for a medic, both officers assessed Mr. Gray’s condition and at no point did either of them restrain Mr. Gray per BPD general order nor did they render or request medical assistance.

While discussing the transportation of Mr. Gray for medical attention, a request for additional units was made for an arrest at the 1600 West North Avenue. Officer Porter left the vicinity of Druid Hill Avenue to assist in the arrest of another prisoner at North Avenue. Despite Mr. Gray’s obvious and recognized need for medical assistance, Officer Goodson in a grossly negligent manner chose to respond to the 1600 block of West North Avenue with Mr. Gray still unsecured by a seatbelt in the wagon without rendering to or summoning medical assistance for Mr. Gray.

Officer Goodson arrived at North Avenue to transport the individual arrested at the location of North Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue at which time he was again met by Officer Nero, Miller and Porter. Once the wagon arrived, Officer Goodson walked to the back of the wagon and again opened the doors to the wagon to make observations of Mr. Gray.

Sgt. Alicia White, Officer Porter and Officer Goodson observed Mr. Gray unresponsive on the floor of the wagon. Sgt. White who is responsible for investigating two citizen complaints pertaining to Mr. Gray’s illegal arrest spoke to the back of Mr. Gray’s head. When he did not respond, she did nothing further despite the fact that she was advised that he needed a medic. She made no effort to look or assess or determine his condition.

Despite Mr. Gray’s seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered or summoned for Mr. Gray at that time by any officer.

After completing the North Avenue arrest and loading the additional prisoner into the opposite side of the wagon containing Mr. Gray, Officer Goodson then proceeded to the Western District Station where contrary to the BPD general order, he again failed to restrain Mr. Gray in the wagon for at least the fifth time.

At the Western District Police Station the defendant arrested at North Avenue was unloaded, escorted and secured inside of the police station prior to attending to Mr. Gray.

By the time Officer Zachary Novak and Sgt. White attempted to remove Mr. Gray from the wagon, Mr. Gray was no longer breathing at all. A medic was finally called to the scene where upon arrival, the medic determined Mr. Gray was now in cardiac arrest and was critically and severely injured.

Mr. Gray was rushed to the University of Maryland Shock Trauma where he underwent surgery. On April 19, 2015, Mr. Gray succumbed to his injuries and was pronounced dead. The manner of death deemed homicide by the Maryland Medical Examiner is believed to be the result of a fatal injury that occurred while Mr. Gray was unrestrained by a seatbelt in the custody of the Baltimore Police Department wagon.


All events occurred in Baltimore City State of Maryland. While each of these officers are presumed innocent until proven guilty, we have brought the following charges:

Officer Caesar Goodson is being charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree negligent assault, manslaughter by vehicle by means of gross negligence, manslaughter by vehicle by means of criminal negligence, misconduct in office by failure to secure prisoner, failure to render aid.

Officer William Porter is being charged with involuntary manslaughter, assault in the second degree, misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian Rice is being charged with involuntary manslaughter, assault in the second degree, assault in the second degree, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward Nero is being charged with assault in the second degree intentional, assault in the second degree negligent, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett Miller is being charged with intentional assault in the second-degree, assault in the second-degree negligent, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia White is being charged with manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office.
 
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