MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[Elley Mae]

“What we don’t know, and what we need to get to, is how that injury occurred,” Rodriguez said. He noted that “when Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk and he could not breathe.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/

The charging document, filed in Baltimore District Court, says that Gray “suffered a medical emergency” during transport to the Western District station.

bbm Interesting choice of words.

 

[Zuri]

We all want to see the right ppl held accountable, but not sure if anyone knows who that is yet.

I am considering the source (William Murphy, a lawyer for Gray's family) of the following:
"... cops chased him "without any evidence he committed a crime."
"Murphy said in a statement, adding that Gray's spine was 80 percent severed at his neck while in police custody."
"He said Gray "lapsed into a coma, died, was resuscitated, stayed in a coma and on Monday, underwent extensive surgery at Shock Trauma [a Baltimore hospital] to save his life. Gray "clung to life for seven days" before his death Sunday morning, Murphy added."
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...police-n344506

Code blue, code blue. Is there a medical professional in the thread?

- Spine 80% severed. Is that an accurate medical characterization? Can spine trauma be quantified in percentages?
- "... in a coma, died, was resuscitated, stayed in a coma..." And this sequence?

When the LE and/or st. atty, Med Exam'er release reports, I'll bear in mind sources of that info too.
JM2cts.

If you figure the spinal cord is 0.5-1.5 cm in width, or what a 1/4-3/4 inches in width, the spinal cord could be mostly transected with a small percentage still being intact. Was spinal shock setting in? I, too, would like to see the ME report.

 

[mysteriew]

You can move air, thus sound, but I don't know how he asked for his inhaler either. The rapidly increasing soft tissue swelling is going to eventually occlude his airway I would think.

They got him into the van rather quickly. Though it would probably have been more apparent by the second stop.

When did they call EMS anyway? I don't think I have seen what point they called EMS.

One thing that did puzzle me. According to what I have seen at some point the arresting officers stopped the van "for paperwork" purposes. When I heard that I wondered about it. What did they need for paperwork that they had to get while out in the street? Or was that a pretext to check on him once he was out of the neighborhood?

 

[mysteriew]

One of the witnesses describes him being on a ground bend like a "pretzel." I think that's when fracturing took place.
And when he was placed into a van, fractured vertebrae could have cut his spinal cord.

That doesn't explain a trachael injury though.

 

[Zuri]

“What we don’t know, and what we need to get to, is how that injury occurred,” Rodriguez said. He noted that “when Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk and he could not breathe.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ithout-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/

The charging document, filed in Baltimore District Court, says that Gray “suffered a medical emergency” during transport to the Western District station.

bbm Interesting choice of words.

How can they be sure the injury occurred in the police van? Some severe injuries with no immediate symptoms occur all the time. Are they trying to implicate Mr. Gray was responsible for his own death? No doubt they have X-rays, CT scans and MRIs from hospitalization and have seen the injuries first hand during autopsy.

 

[jjenny]

That doesn't explain a trachael injury though.

A witness claims there was a knee to the back of his neck. So my understanding of the arrest is that police had him on the ground, with a knee to the back of his neck, with his legs bend toward his back. I think that could have caused fracturing that severed his spinal cord after he was placed into the van.

 

[SStarr33]

How can they be sure the injury occurred in the police van? Some severe injuries with no immediate symptoms occur all the time. Are they trying to implicate Mr. Gray was responsible for his own death? No doubt they have X-rays, CT scans and MRIs from hospitalization and have seen the injuries first hand during autopsy.

It sounds to me like they are taking responsibility. They said he was not secured in the van.

 

[Tawny]

How can they be sure the injury occurred in the police van? Some severe injuries with no immediate symptoms occur all the time. Are they trying to implicate Mr. Gray was responsible for his own death? No doubt they have X-rays, CT scans and MRIs from hospitalization and have seen the injuries first hand during autopsy.

TBH, that's what it sounds like to me. He was CLEARLY injured BEFORE he got in that van. He couldn't walk and he was yelling in pain.

 

[Tawny]

It sounds to me like they are taking responsibility. They said he was not secured in the van.

I disagree. I think they're using it to take responsibility OFF of the officers, indirectly. They could then say it was accidental, that being shuffled around in a moving van caused it, rather than the direct violence from officers. JMO.

 

[jjenny]

I disagree. I think they're using it to take responsibility OFF of the officers, indirectly. They could then say it was accidental, that being shuffled around in a moving van caused it, rather than the direct violence from officers. JMO.

That's what it sounds like to me. They will still be liable for damages since when he is in custody, it's their responsibility to properly secure him, but police officers wont' be responsible criminally if they claim he was injured in the van.

 

[MissSunshine]

How can they be sure the injury occurred in the police van? Some severe injuries with no immediate symptoms occur all the time. Are they trying to implicate Mr. Gray was responsible for his own death? No doubt they have X-rays, CT scans and MRIs from hospitalization and have seen the injuries first hand during autopsy.

I think what they are saying is that he didn't appear to have a medical emergency prior to being placed in the van and by the time he arrived at the police station he was having the medical emergency. Perhaps the other prisoner revealed more info about what happened. They said they are not releasing the other prisoner name because he is a witness in a criminal investigation.

 

[SStarr33]

I disagree. I think they're using it to take responsibility OFF of the officers, indirectly. They could then say it was accidental, that being shuffled around in a moving van caused it, rather than the direct violence from officers. JMO.

Well, we have a prisoner who was in the van who can let us know what happened. And then we can take that into consideration with the rest of what we have and piece it together.

 

[Zuri]

oh my god, what the heck happened here.

"His take-down and arrest without probable cause occurred under a police video camera, which taped everything including the police dragging and throwing Freddy into a police vehicle while he screamed in pain," Murphy said in a statement, adding that Gray's spine was 80 percent severed at his neck while in police custody.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/healthy-baltimore-man-dies-after-being-restrained-police-n344506

I looked at the pics again after reading. Below the script is a picture of Mr. Gray standing and weight bearing, but torqued to one side. It doesn't look to me like the police officer is pulling him to the left or is he?

 

[Zuri]

A witness claims there was a knee to the back of his neck. So my understanding of the arrest is that police had him on the ground, with a knee to the back of his neck, with his legs bend toward his back. I think that could have caused fracturing that severed his spinal cord after he was placed into the van.

This makes sense, but how did the larynx get fractured? To my mind, the force would have to come from the front. I wonder if he hit the seat in front of him while unrestrained in the van, with his neck hyperextended?

 

[SStarr33]

A witness claims there was a knee to the back of his neck. So my understanding of the arrest is that police had him on the ground, with a knee to the back of his neck, with his legs bend toward his back. I think that could have caused fracturing that severed his spinal cord after he was placed into the van.

A witness also said he was tased.

 

[Tawny]

I hope all of the security footage is released. Or at least reviewed by an IMPARTIAL party. It's always really hard to find impartial parties when it comes to LE and the justice system, etc.

 

[SStarr33]

I looked at the pics again after reading. Below the script is a picture of Mr. Gray standing and weight bearing, but torqued to one side. It doesn't look to me like the police officer is pulling him to the left or is he?

If you watch the video, he kind of hitches his legs underneath him and stands.

 

[Tawny]

If you watch the video, he kind of hitches his legs underneath him and stands.

He's not necessarily bearing his weight though. He could feel his leg was under him and was able to push himself up, but that's not the same as bearing weight and walking. JMO

 

[Zuri]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...die-gray-arrest-documents-20150420-story.html

Has the official cause of death actually been released? Did Mr. Gray die of brain death? They operated on him at Baltimore Shock Trauma, probably to stabilize his spine, but what actually killed him?

 

[Zuri]

A witness also said he was tased.

I didn't see them actually remove the taser wires in the video, so he could very well have been tased and we didn't get to see it. However, the police said he was arrested without incident. Does that mean he stopped running and gave up?