MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[kaen]

Do you have a reliable source for that?

http://time.com/3843870/marilyn-mosby-transcript-freddie-gray/

Mosby: Lt. Rice Officer Miller and Officer Nero loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order.

 

[MissSunshine]

Just curious Miss Sunshine---how do the local LE treat you? What have you observed personally in their demeanor about the City?
What is your first-hand experience with them?

Moo

I have had good and bad experiences with local LE, some of it with LE from that district. I have been stopped and searched for being in the wrong neighborhood, assumptions were made based on my appearance.

I have seen LE stop to chat and laugh with kids and residents. I have seen them bringing popsicles and water for residents on hot days. I have seen them being berated by people and not doing anything in return.

For me, the good outweighs the bad.

I will say that LE in the high crime areas do seem to be more alert and suspicious. And the residents are more alert and suspicious of LE.

 

[SStarr33]

Do you have a reliable source for that?

Yes. I just googled Freddie Gray 9 days seat belts

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ally-injured-custody-baltimore-police-n347391

 

[popsicle]

So this means that superiors will be in the hot seat too, the arrested officers may have not been notified or up to date on that.

Possibly, because it only became effect/mandatory/ put into effect 3 days before this according to msm in the beginning of this case.

 

[vanlutz]

Do we know for a fact that the officers are mandated to put seat belts on the arrested person inside the van? Are there laws that specifically state this? Are there seat belts inside the van? Would seat belts actually prevent the types of injuries allegedly happening anyway (banging of the head into the walls of the van which are very, very close)?

Yes, it's absolutely a law to put prisoners in seat belts. But, according to friends of the officer and other retired law officers, its not really done. According to them all, they don't want to get into the prisoner's personal space. With Gray, the friend said he still had saliva and teeth he could use. So, Gray was not being a model prisoner. Which is going to be part of the officer's defense.

 

[SStarr33]

Did anyone see Goodson in the video at the scene of the arrest?

 

[mysteriew]

Imagine our country without LE...is this foreshadowing of what's to come?

There will be a lot of LE bashing in the days to come. But I have to say this.

Yes I know that there are officers who abuse their powers, officers who have committed dispicable crimes. I have been here since 2004 and I have seen it. But it has not been a racial issue. Some of the most dispicible that I have seen have been white on white. There have been others where no crimes were necessarily committed, but the officers were just a**es or were lazy and incompetent.

But I have also seen officers risk their lives w/o even asking if the person they were saving "deserved"it. I've also seen compassion, so much so that it has brought tears to my eyes.

And if I or my family were touched by a crime I would still reach out to LE. Because they are what we have. They are what stands between us and crime. I would expect them to take a bullet for me if necessary. For that reason if no other I feel it is my obligation to give them the benefit of the doubt where possible. Not to permit them to commit crime, but to allow them to explain themselves, to reallytry to understand the events. And to not exaggerate the events just because that supports my position.

I've never been an officer but I am not naive. I have seen criminals who outright lied (their attorneys too) criminals who claimed injuries they did not have. Who claimed abuses they did not recieve. (This is the first time I have seen racial discrimination called against AA people though.)

But in this case even though I can see some possible wrongdoing I cannot and will not do any LE bashing. This was 6 officers who may have committed a crime. Not an entire force. And if they committed a crime we still do not know who did what and how much did the others know.

 

[kaen]

Mosby today after the charging speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4eujF6I6Is

She starts at about 10:30

I love that she challenges the clergy to reach out and lead the youth. I am also happy that she thanks LE and recognizes the enormity of their jobs.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

They just added the seatbelt rule 9 days before this happened

The seatbelt rule for transporting arrestees is B-more LE ***POLICY***
It is not the law. Policies are open to interpretation & variables.
Big difference in policy vs law.


Moo

 

[popsicle]

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 12m12 minutes ago
All six Baltimore police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray have posted bail. http://cnn.it/1HZDZHT

 

[vanlutz]

No one should be treated like garbage. But, according to friends of the officers (on CNN not FOX) they didn't seat belt him in because he was acting up and still had use of teeth and saliva.

No one was charged with actual murder which means the Prosecutor is basically conceding the fact that Gray hit his own head on purpose. But, because he wasn't seat belted in the officers are at fault.

He shouldn't have died. But, his actions still played a major part in his demise. He'd probably be alive today if he just didn't run. With each of these high profile cases I'm just amazed at the stupidity. I've been stopped on the streets for doing NOTHING except being a punk rocker and questioned. I've never been arrested and was always cordial and polite. The encounters lasted less than a minute each. Police are out there to protect. 1 out of 1000 go out looking to start trouble with innocent civilians.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes, it's absolutely a law to put prisoners in seat belts. But, according to friends of the officer and other retired law officers, its not really done. According to them all, they don't want to get into the prisoner's personal space. With Gray, the friend said he still had saliva and teeth he could use. So, Gray was not being a model prisoner. Which is going to be part of the officer's defense.

It is merely department policy; not the law

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have had good and bad experiences with local LE, some of it with LE from that district. I have been stopped and searched for being in the wrong neighborhood, assumptions were made based on my appearance.

I have seen LE stop to chat and laugh with kids and residents. I have seen them bringing popsicles and water for residents on hot days. I have seen them being berated by people and not doing anything in return.

For me, the good outweighs the bad.

I will say that LE in the high crime areas do seem to be more alert and suspicious. And the residents are more alert and suspicious of LE.

Thank you for your firsthand perspective, Miss Sunshine

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.businessinsider.com/prosecutor-says-no-reason-to-arrest-freddie-gray-2015-5

The knife was recovered, the report says, and "found to be a spring-assisted, one hand operated knife." In Baltimore, it is illegal to carry a switchblade.

bbm A spring-assist and a switch blade are two different knives.

a spring assist is not a switchblade.

 

[SStarr33]

I love that she challenges the clergy to reach out and lead the youth. I am also happy that she thanks LE and recognizes the enormity of their jobs.

I think it was entirely inappropriate.

 

[loveamystery]

This is a tragedy all around. I am a LE supporter. Members of my family work in the field. That said, the video of any number of the recent deaths has been horrifying to me. I don't think people want no LE but rather a change in the system and the training of our officers. FG was asking for medical help after he asked for his inhaler. He was denied that help more than once.

My question is why deny him medical care? What was the reason that any of these officers believed they understood his medical condition (before his catastrophic neck injury)? They took him out of the wagon on more than one occasion, would it have been problematic to get the EMTs to check him out? They functioned beyond their expertise as they are not EMTs. A young man is dead and, in fact, died a horrific death in the back of that van. If he had lived, he would have been paralyzed from the neck down.

I could definitely see a different narrative in Michael Brown's case as he was up in the officer's window. Did he deserve to be shot? I can not say but take the word of the grand jury.

In the case of Freddie Gray, I take the word of the prosecutor until the trial. If the officers are guilty in his death, then, they should shoulder the responsibility.

When other cases were in the headlines and people demanded a special prosecutor, many were against it saying that we had a system in place. i took that. Now, I see that the same system is in place in Baltimore and we must see how this plays out.

A sad day for the officers. I doubt that any of them woke up that day hoping to participate in anyone's death. I also doubt that Freddie Gray thought he would die on that day or be on life support until he expired.

I hope that many of us in Websleuths can remember our aim to be victim friendly.

Police officers are not EMT's, but aren't they trained in first aid? Aren't they capable of delivering babies in an emergency?

I'm asking you, as someone who has links to LE. My dad's life was saved by NYPD officers performing CPR. My mom always held them in high esteem because of that. It happened many, many years ago, and I am really curious to know if the same would happen today.

 

[kaen]

The seatbelt rule for transporting arrestees is B-more LE ***POLICY***
It is not the law. Policies are open to interpretation & variables.
Big difference in policy vs law.

This article explains the issues that most likely caused the policy to be put in place. It may not be law but if one does not follow policy in the work place you run the risk of being fired and depending on the job being held legally accountable. In my workplace, I have policies that I must follow in order to ensure the businesses liability and safety. I don't think that a policy that comes from previous lawsuits and has been written/distributed is open to interpretation.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2015/04/freddie_gray_and_the_fear_of_a_rough_ride.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Batts has said officers violated policy by failing to properly restrain Gray. But the president of the Baltimore police union noted that the policy mandating seat belts took effect April 3 and was e-mailed to officers as part of a package of five policy changes on April 9, three days before Gray was arrested.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

bbm

 

[Footwarrior]

A bit of research indicates the policy of belting in prisoners has been in place from at least 1997. It may have been revised recently, but it is not a new policy.

http://www.aele.org/law/2009all10/baltimore-transport.pdf

 

[SStarr33]

It is merely department policy; not the law

I like the way you think. In her speech she called it a BPD general order