MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

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  • #1,321
At the moment, I don't believe the contents of this letter from a Sgt to his Command, advising that numerous members of the public are challenging LE to fight with them on the streets of Baltimore.

LE has been ordered to drive 2 to a car - so some of them should start getting some of these incidents on video (body cam not needed if unavailable - they all have iphones according to previous footage).

The Sgt that wrote the letter claims 5 incidents in one day - he should have been fed up enough to capture some or all of the last 2 on video.

It's possible that two can play the instigating game here, imo - the head of the LE Union in Baltimore is stating these officers are not guilty - riling the members rather than letting justice take its course. How many times do officers hear a person arrested is not guilty and laughs about it. Isn't one suppose to tell that to the judge and jury ?

You don't believe thaT the members of the public are challenging the cops to a fight
? REally? Have you ever been to that neighborhood before? It is one of the top 5 most dangerous in the nation.

I think that is one of the things that some are forgetting here. The cops are doing very dangerous work. LOTS of people in that hood want to kill them. None of us would want to walk around there alone. It has some very violent criminals. People get shot and stabbed nearly every day there.

People are talking as though the cops go into wonderland, full of innocent, sweet choirboys, and just bully and harrass them, unprovoked. I think they ignore the fact that the area is full of violent gang members and drug addicts and the locals call the cops in to try and clear them ll out. How do you clear them out without stopping and frisking them, talking to them, confronting them.

Sadly for the locals, very little of that will be going on anymore. The gangbangers and drug dealers have the upper hand now.
 
  • #1,322
People are flooding into the streets and intersection after curfew. Rebz is encouraging them of course.

I wondered when Rebz would pop up .... great news !
 
  • #1,323
Claiming he ingested heroin; swallowed it

Balt Officer on Hannity

RSBM

I'd think that would be dangerous, even fatal. The autopsy would show if anything was in Gray's system.
Imo.
 
  • #1,324
Many things are widespread, and imo police misconduct is one of them - everywhere. There is a reason the US President has to step down after 8 years in office. Maybe cops should be rotated on a regular basis, like bank employees.

We can respectfully disagree. Even over rotating bank employees....like what, firing them on purpose?
Anywhoo....what I see as widespread is illegal drug usage, criminality, lack of civility, & the divide in socioeconomic status; here in the States 'cause I can't speak for the conditions in other countries (I live here).
 
  • #1,325
Many things are widespread, and imo police misconduct is one of them - everywhere. There is a reason the US President has to step down after 8 years in office. Maybe cops should be rotated on a regular basis, like bank employees.

BBM

That didn't stop Nixon.

How could you "rotate" cops? It's a career for most of them.
 
  • #1,326
Cariis.....drugs in a person system will cause their behavior to become erratic, especially under stressful events. Especially if one ingests the drugs to hide the evidence.
I am not stating that this is the case with FG because we haven't seen the tox or autopsy results yet.

Could it have made him go into a seizure that then caused his injury? Again so yes, the cops should have called EMTs but doesn't make them the murderers they have just been accused of.
 
  • #1,327
Cariis.....drugs in a person system will cause their behavior to become erratic, especially under stressful events. Especially if one ingests the drugs to hide the evidence.
I am not stating that this is the case with FG because we haven't seen the tox or autopsy results yet.

What I'm really anxious for is the autopsy report b/c from what I can determine the "80% severed spinal cord and crushed larynx " is laungauage coming from the family's lawyer(s).

It's been shown many times that what these lawyers state on CNN et al is often a far cry from the truth. Not saying this is definitely the case this time, but we just don't know.
 
  • #1,328
  • #1,329
Imo, anyone in the US that bit or spit on an officer while the officer was putting a seatbelt on them would know they would end up like FG. So maybe it would happen once in thousands and thousands of arrests, leaving plenty of money available to pay for the officers injuries, leave time and/or any other compensation LE would be entitled to claim.
This is not true, and it isn't about the money an officer can collect. It is about their life. My LE stepson was bitten by a person he was arresting. He is the one that had to go in and be checked (I believe it was for six months) for aides. Luckily he did not contact anything from the night, but you just never know. Oh, and as a side note he continued to cuff the person, he did not retaliate.
 
  • #1,330
This is not true, and it isn't about the money an officer can collect. It is about their life. My LE stepson was bitten by a person he was arresting. He is the one that had to go in and be checked (I believe it was for six months) for aides. Luckily he did not contact anything from the night, but you just never know. Oh, and as a side note he continued to cuff the person, he did not retaliate.

Thank you.....that is why it is nearly impossible for an officer to seat belt someone who is combative into a tight confine. Not safe, not sensible.
 
  • #1,331
RSBM

I'd think that would be dangerous, even fatal. The autopsy would show if anything was in Gray's system.
Imo.

Swallowing heroin could definitely render someone unconscious, and cause cardiac arrest as well. Or put another way, an overdose. It's highly probable that a tox screen was done when he was first examined at the hospital, especially if he was unresponsive. Pits info the emergency doctors need to know.

My understanding is that in cases where someone is admitted to a hospital and then later dies, the blood drawn at the time of the hospital admittance is often used for the autopsy as it offers more accurate info.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
  • #1,332
With all that's known so far, I think these six Police Officers are innocent and are being railroaded. I hope there will be a special prosecutor appointed along with a change of venue, or I fear these cops will never get a fair trial. I think FG did this to himself not realizing the risk he was taking and died as a result. There is a FB page up in support for these Police Officers with thousands of likes so far.

https://www.facebook.com/supportthebaltimoresix/timeline
 
  • #1,333
From SStarr33: "Mosby today after the charging speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4eujF6I6Is
She starts at about 10:30"

I love that she challenges the clergy to reach out and lead the youth. I am also happy that she thanks LE and recognizes the enormity of their jobs.
bbm

Baltimore might be a better place if Mosby would challenge parents to parent -
that is, if the parents would take up the challenge. JM2cts.
 
  • #1,334
Hi Taste!

I am looking at it in its entirity. There can be no way the second stop could have been a mystery to LE. In most instances people lie or keep secrets for a reason. If you go back and look at the intial pressers when they were releasing the timeline they kept saying we are trying to piece it together. Its a vehicle with dispatch (!) - and logs and stuff. I think whatever happened, happened between being placed in and (Just IMO - I think he was viewed as acting up, so they slammed the brakes, ran and looked at in, saw him on the floor but continued to believe he was just acting out)

But in all honesty those screams when they sttarted moving him sounded pretty awful too me the first time i saw and heard them. Excurating pain.

It is my sense, that they did not know until yesterday a private video existed of the hidden, lied about, not disclosed, and covered up mystery stop. Things moved quickly since they found out about the video of the mystery shop - and within 24 indicments made.

I think there is much signifgance here.

But just as a human being, hearing someone screaming in pain should result in some sort of at least pause in dragging another human around - its just "humane"

If one really looks at it - someone having trouble breahting, reporting they have asthma, need help and being drivin around town for another 45 minutes - in and of itself is, IMO, just not ok. Much less so for a population that has been exposed to some medical training.

It was just overt cruelity to another human being cop or not, there was a cold indifference to this child which resulted in a young man being dead.

Its just not ok..........................IMO
 
  • #1,335
  • #1,336
I am sad that a sworn officer of the court is having her integrity questioned.

FG was a victim here. Yes, he may have been a criminal in the past or on that day but once he was handcuffed and shackled the officers had a duty to protect his health and safety. Are we not a victim friendly site? FG was not saint but he died handcuffed/shackled on the floor of a police van.

In Ferguson, the police stood down on the first nights. Similar, no?

We may not like that the officers have been charged but why do people need to see the prosecutor as against LE? In Ferguson, many questioned the prosecutor but the general tone was that it was his call to go to the Grand Jury. She makes a call and every move she makes is seen as done based on her leanings toward the youth of Baltimore.

I personally thought it was an excellent speech, and she laid out the basics perfectly. The problem is, she set the bar HIGH, and chances are pretty good that not all of them are going to stick.

As I've said in many posts the statute of what a switchblade is could hamper the charges of illegal arrest. If that goes down, those two officers walk. If that happens Baltimore will be burnt to the ground. It will lay at Mosby's feet, because she doesn't know what a knife is.

This is not going to end well for Baltimore. There are many people being interviewed that think this is the end, that the cops are going to jail.
 
  • #1,337

You don't believe thaT the members of the public are challenging the cops to a fight
? REally? Have you ever been to that neighborhood before? It is one of the top 5 most dangerous in the nation.

I think that is one of the things that some are forgetting here. The cops are doing very dangerous work. LOTS of people in that hood want to kill them. None of us would want to walk around there alone. It has some very violent criminals. People get shot and stabbed nearly every day there.

People are talking as though the cops go into wonderland, full of innocent, sweet choirboys, and just bully and harrass them, unprovoked. I think they ignore the fact that the area is full of violent gang members and drug addicts and the locals call the cops in to try and clear them ll out. How do you clear them out without stopping and frisking them, talking to them, confronting them.

Sadly for the locals, very little of that will be going on anymore. The gangbangers and drug dealers have the upper hand now.

Have not seen anyone make any of the statements made in this post - maybe a clarification would help.

Failing to see that part of the solution is to say gangbangers and drug dealers have the upper hand now in Baltimore - I will believe that when the mayor or SA says it.
 
  • #1,338
According to the charging document, FG was arrested for possessing a spring-assisted, one-hand operated knife - not for selling one. I've read the charging document numerous times, and I can't find ANYTHING related to FG being arrested for selling a similarly-described knife.

Furthermore, the State's Attorney has said that the knife was not an illegal blade. Make of it what you will, but if the State's Attorney has reported factual info, it appears that FG was arrested unlawfully.

So if the arresting officer MISTAKENLY believes it is an illegal knife, and arrests a fleeing known drug dealer during a drug sweep, he should be arrested himself for mistaking that knife as an illegal type?
 
  • #1,339
McCullough was a long time prosecutor of unquestioned integrity. He was not an activist nor was his spouse or close family member an elected politician for the city where the crime occurred and someone who was and is vocal about police "abuse".

Mosby is brand new and last worked for an insurance company. She and her husband have both been vocal about cases viewed by the public as similar. Mosby also publicly criticized McCullough and the Ferguson process.

Mosby's husband is a councilman for the district where this happened. He's an apparently ambitious politician. I read about him being interviewed where he seemed to be essentially excusing the rioter/looters and deeming the looting going on in front of him not worthy of discussion:

Mosby kept responding that he thought looting was wrong, but that broader, historical realities — like a paucity of investment and counterproductive policies imposed on struggling inner cities just like his — were like kindling. They went back and forth like this for a few minutes until an exasperated Mosby finally had enough. "At this point, this is not productive," he said. "All you want to do is talk about this" — pointing over his shoulder to the liquor store that had been looted, and walking away from the conversation.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/30/403382265/councilmans-star-rises-fast-amid-baltimore-unrest

Mosby criticized prosecutor McCullough in the Fergusson case and said there should be a special prosecutor.
“What we saw (in Ferguson) was a questionable process, because we have to question the motives,” said Mosby.
http://newsone.com/3076148/newsone-now-how-a-grand-jury-works-video/

She has criticized the working of the justice system in cases where there have not been indictments.

Shortly before she became the youngest top prosecutor in any major American city, Marilyn J. Mosby, a daughter and granddaughter of police officers, had tough words about how the nation’s criminal justice system had handled mistreatment of black men by the police.

“It’s been 78 days since Michael Brown was shot in the street by a police officer,” Ms. Mosby said in October at her alma mater, Tuskegee University in Alabama. “It’s been 101 days since Eric Garner was choked to death in New York by a police officer, and 54 days since the New York City medical examiner ruled that incident a homicide. Neither has resulted in an indictment.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/marilyn-mosby-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-seen-as-tough-on-police-misconduct.html

And I am concerned that her husband is a vocal activist who echoes the views of the community that elected him. He spoke against the Zimmerman verdict as did his wife, though before she was prosecutor, and proposed a boycott of FL. He also ran on some interesting positions after first losing an election. And he has spoken as though the police are certainly guilty.

A few weeks after a Florida jury acquitted neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, Baltimore City Councilman Nick Mosby wants the city government to stop doing business with firms in Florida.
http://www.wbal.com/article/101963/21/template-story/Councilman-Wants-City-Boycott-Of-Florida-Stand-Your-Ground-Bill-Proposed-In-Maryland

Mosby was good on some of the issues, like pushing a bill that removed questions about a job-seeker's criminal history from job applications...Mosby ran, in part, on a vow for more police accountability — the city's police force has a well-earned reputation for excessive force. He tried to improve the relationship between the department and the folks they police.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/30/403382265/councilmans-star-rises-fast-amid-baltimore-unrest

“Freddie Gray will not die in vain,” said Nick Mosby, councilman for the seventh district of Baltimore, which incorporates both the location of Gray’s arrest and the Western District police station where protesters have congregated for six days on end. “I see change coming to Baltimore city. At the end of the day we can’t rest on anything less.”
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/25/freddie-gray-death-triggers-frustration-baltimore-police

I felt at times today that Mosby's actions were perhaps more political than prosecutorial. I really hope these officers are not being sacrificed for people to make names for themselves and pursue political ambitions. I really question whether Baltimore's problems are racism based and I have issue with stoking the racist flames.

In Baltimore, African Americans control virtually the entire political apparatus. Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake and Police Commissioner Anthony Batts have been the most prominent faces of political power in Baltimore over the last several weeks. But Baltimore’s City Council has 15 members, and a majority, eight, are African American, including its president. The superintendent of the public schools and the entire board of the city’s housing commission are African American.
http://inthesetimes.com/article/17888/baltimore_riots_black_politicians

Baltimore is a city mired in violent crime, poverty and dysfunction. I wouldn't work there as anything, never mind a police officer. Despite the promises of politicians nothing has gotten better.

I have no idea what happened in this case and whether some or all of the officers involved acted negligently or criminally. I just hope the justice system is being invoked in an effort to determine that and not merely to appease the local populace and present local elected officials as "heroes" who are willing to quickly indict police without due regard for the facts.

One can feel for the victim without concluding it was criminal and condemning the police before all the facts are available. And I am very troubled by her words
“To the people of Baltimore and the demonstrators across America,” she said, “I heard your call for ‘no justice, no peace.’ ”
that were not ones I would usually imagine a prosecutor speaking, seeming to encourage the crowd in the sentiment and allow them to continue to equate indictments and convictions of officers with "justice", thus condoning violence when the crowd doesn't get the results they deem "justice".



I am sad that a sworn officer of the court is having her integrity questioned.

FG was a victim here. Yes, he may have been a criminal in the past or on that day but once he was handcuffed and shackled the officers had a duty to protect his health and safety. Are we not a victim friendly site? FG was not saint but he died handcuffed/shackled on the floor of a police van.

In Ferguson, the police stood down on the first nights. Similar, no?

We may not like that the officers have been charged but why do people need to see the prosecutor as against LE? In Ferguson, many questioned the prosecutor but the general tone was that it was his call to go to the Grand Jury. She makes a call and every move she makes is seen as done based on her leanings toward the youth of Baltimore.
 
  • #1,340
BBM

That didn't stop Nixon.

How could you "rotate" cops? It's a career for most of them.

A rotation is to move people around doing the same or related work - in a different location or capacity. Rotations do not involve taking people out of their chosen vocation. Nixon is a perfect example of why.
 
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