MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[corundogs]

Most certainly LE should uphold the law and any LE that murders someone should be held accountable. But this case hasn't even gone to court yet, due process etc. I was talking about the protests and putting it in perspective because I don't think the protestors know anymore than anyone else and so this case is like any other. If people want to protest about police brutality in Mr. Gray's neighborhood than may be they should protest all brutality in the neighborhood. Protesting brutality is always admirable, ALL brutality. Jmo/

Freddie Grey's death was the straw that broke the camel's back in Baltimore. But they are in fact protesting ALL brutality and misconduct in the local police department. Just like with all of the other cases in the past year or so.

 

[bettybaby00]

McCullough was a long time prosecutor of unquestioned integrity. He was not an activist nor was his spouse or close family member an elected politician for the city where the crime occurred and someone who was and is vocal about police "abuse".

Mosby is brand new and last worked for an insurance company. She and her husband have both been vocal about cases viewed by the public as similar. Mosby also publicly criticized McCullough and the Ferguson process.

Mosby's husband is a councilman for the district where this happened. He's an apparently ambitious politician. I read about him being interviewed where he seemed to be essentially excusing the rioter/looters and deeming the looting going on in front of him not worthy of discussion:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/30/403382265/councilmans-star-rises-fast-amid-baltimore-unrest

Mosby criticized prosecutor McCullough in the Fergusson case and said there should be a special prosecutor. http://newsone.com/3076148/newsone-now-how-a-grand-jury-works-video/

She has criticized the working of the justice system in cases where there have not been indictments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/marilyn-mosby-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-seen-as-tough-on-police-misconduct.html

And I am concerned that her husband is a vocal activist who echoes the views of the community that elected him. He spoke against the Zimmerman verdict as did his wife, though before she was prosecutor, and proposed a boycott of FL. He also ran on some interesting positions after first losing an election. And he has spoken as though the police are certainly guilty.


http://www.wbal.com/article/101963/21/template-story/Councilman-Wants-City-Boycott-Of-Florida-Stand-Your-Ground-Bill-Proposed-In-Maryland

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/30/403382265/councilmans-star-rises-fast-amid-baltimore-unrest

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/25/freddie-gray-death-triggers-frustration-baltimore-police

I felt at times today that Mosby's actions were perhaps more political than prosecutorial. I really hope these officers are not being sacrificed for people to make names for themselves and pursue political ambitions. I really question whether Baltimore's problems are racism based and I have issue with stoking the racist flames.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17888/baltimore_riots_black_politicians

Baltimore is a city mired in violent crime, poverty and dysfunction. I wouldn't work there as anything, never mind a police officer. Despite the promises of politicians nothing has gotten better.

I have no idea what happened in this case and whether some or all of the officers involved acted negligently or criminally. I just hope the justice system is being invoked in an effort to determine that and not merely to appease the local populace and present local elected officials as "heroes" who are willing to quickly indict police without due regard for the facts.

One can feel for the victim without concluding it was criminal and condemning the police before all the facts are available. And I am very troubled by her words
that were not ones I would usually imagine a prosecutor speaking, seeming to encourage the crowd in the sentiment and allow them to continue to equate indictments and convictions of officers with "justice", thus condoning violence when the crowd doesn't get the results they deem "justice".

yes, yes, yes. Agree completely, especially with the BBM

 

[BirdycatNY]

Freddie Grey's death was the straw that broke the camel's back in Baltimore. But they are in fact protesting ALL brutality and misconduct in the local police department. Just like with all of the other cases in the past year or so.

What about the brutality/murders in the neighborhood not caused by LE, are they protesting those as well? ALL brutality

 

[corundogs]

What about the brutality/murders in the neighborhood not caused by LE, are they protesting those as well? ALL brutality

Who would they protest against? Their neighbors?? What exactly do you think the outcome of that would be? Who would get resolutions for them?

I just don't understand this comparing police brutality to gang/drug violence.

 

[MissSunshine]

If you are on twitter, subscribe to the Baltimore Police acct. They announce every time there is a homicide and I have been shocked at how many homicides there have been in the little time that I have followed them.

Have you ever watched The Wire? That is really what Baltimore is like. The murders don't even make news because they are so common. People just kill each other almost daily.

 

[kaen]

Lt. Rice Officer Miller and Officer Nero loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order. Lt. Rice then directed the BPD wagon to stop at Baker Street. At Baker Street, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero and Officer Miller removed Mr. Gray from the wagon, placed flexi-cuffs on his wrists, placed leg shackles on his ankles and completed required paperwork. (http://time.com/3843870/marilyn-mosby-transcript-freddie-gray/)

This is the information gathered from the officers. Why did they have the wagon go a few blocks only to put leg shackles and do the paperwork? Why not do it at the arrest scene?

 

[al66pine]

Ohhh
BUT it isn't in the police report now is it
Must have left that out
Balt Officer claiming that tox report tested positive for heroin & weed

I have not yet seen Hannity interview w this B'more LEO, so hesitate to comment, but here goes.

How would an LEO rpt written on same day refer to tox results, even from hosp admsn tox tests?
Could it?
So when someone says ~ "LEO left it out of rpt, so LEO's later stmt re tox rpt is a lie"
not making sense to me, but I may be misinterpreting the above post.

Anybody have a link to Hannity interview?

 

[katydid23]

Who would they protest against? Their neighbors?? What exactly do you think the outcome of that would be? Who would get resolutions for them?

I just don't understand this comparing police brutality to gang/drug violence.

The comparison is vital, imo. Moms say they fear for their sons lives. Yet gangs are killing young blacks every single day.

And the cops are THERE to combat the gangs. The 'victims' of the cops have usually always been criminals and drug dealers, not innocent bystanders.

 

[CARIIS]

yeh i saw that piece too CNN she was illiterate - only making it to middle schoool they won a lawsuit againist the landlord for lead poisening and he had a lot of difficulties in school as a result of exposure . He was placed in special classes at one point. Indeed a sad story

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fr...soning-family-said-in-2008-lawsuit/ar-AAbB3l3



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fr...soning-family-said-in-2008-lawsuit/ar-AAbB3l3

 

[BirdycatNY]

Who would they protest against? Their neighbors?? What exactly do you think the outcome of that would be? Who would get resolutions for them?

I just don't understand this comparing police brutality to gang/drug violence.

When LE murders someone unjustifiably it may feel worse because we hold them to a higher standard and don't expect it from LE. So I think I understand where you are coming from. However, there isn't evidence or facts available yet, and these police officers haven't had their day in court to determine whether or not they murdered Mr. Gray.

Yet, Mr. Gray's city is rift with senseless murders that were determined as such and I think it is a worthy cause to peacefully protest known brutality and I for one would be protesting the determined homicides, and recent looting/arson/rioting because it's known criminality and it's brutality.

Case by case basis and if the facts and evidence support that these officers murdered Mr. Gray then so be it, and a jury will decide. But there isn't enough information so far to determine anything about the case, that's why we have court system. So I assume people are really just protesting that Mr. Gray died and if that's the case, they should be protesting for the many people that have died in Baltimore this year. It's tragic that Mr. Gray died, and I feel for his family and their sadness. But if the police officers did not murder him, then it would be just as tragic to send them to jail/ Jmo

 

[kaen]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/freddie-gray-details-fill-journey-baltimore-police/story?id=30704154

First Stop

Davis confirmed this morning that the police made a stop at Mount and Baker streets, though no further details about that stop were released. This intersection is just one block south from where Gray was taken into custody.

Second Stop

Davis said police have since determined that the wagon made a second stop they had not previously known about, at N. Fremont Avenue and Mosher Street. They did not release other details.

Investigators learned about this stop after reviewing video footage from a privately owned camera.

Third Stop

The van then resumes the schedule that officers had previously known about with a stop at Druid Hill Avenue and Dolphin Street, which is not far from the second, unknown stop, though no further details about what happened here have been released.

Fourth Stop

The wagon then goes to North and Pennsylvania avenues to pick up an additional prisoner.

Davis did not release the time for each of these stops, but police have already said that at 8:46 a.m., the driver of the van reported that he believes Gray is acting “irate.” An officer asks the van to stop so paperwork could be completed, according to Baltimore police. At that point, Gray is taken out of the vehicle, and police said he was placed in leg irons and then put back in the van. Police have not specified when this occurred in relation to the van’s various stops.

By 8:54 a.m., the wagon had cleared Mount Street and was heading toward central booking, police said in earlier statements.

At 8:59 a.m. a request was made by the driver of the van for an additional "unit" to check on Gray, police say. There was some undisclosed communication with Gray at this point, police said in earlier statements.

Arrives at the Police Station

Police have not released the official time when the wagon arrived at Western District station, but at 9:23 a.m. emergency medical services directed a technician to respond for an injured patient, as heard on a recording of the call that was publicly released.

A minute later, police officers requested paramedics to the Western District to transport the man to the University of Maryland's Shock Trauma Center. In a subsequent charging document, police said, “During transport to Western District via wagon transport the Defendant suffered a medical emergency and was immediately transported to Shock Trauma."

On-scene medical responders said Gray was not breathing at 9:37 a.m., according to EMS reports.

 

[MissSunshine]

Who would they protest against? Their neighbors?? What exactly do you think the outcome of that would be? Who would get resolutions for them?

I just don't understand this comparing police brutality to gang/drug violence.

They could protest against the violence in their neighborhood.
The 300 Man March are about trying stop the violence in their neighborhoods. They do not have a turn out like what we are seeing in Baltimore now.

http://www.300menmarch.com/#!about_us/csgz

Police brutality is wrong and people should stand up against. They should also stand up against the almost 300 murders a year in the same way. Both forms of violence are unacceptable.

 

[SStarr33]

I have not yet seen Hannity interview w this B'more LEO, so hesitate to comment, but here goes.

How would an LEO rpt written on same day would refer to tox screen results. Could it? IDTS.
So if someone says ~ "LEO left it out of rpt, so LEO's later stmt re tox rpt is a lie"
not making sense to me, but I may be misinterpreting the above post.

Anybody have a link to Hannity interview?

It is at the Right Scoop, but we are not allowed to link to it

 

[al66pine]

Re possibility that FG swallowed heroin or other drugs while running from LEOs

RSBM
I'd think that would be dangerous, even fatal. The autopsy would show if anything was in Gray's system.
Imo.

bbm

IIRC, 5 to 7 days passed between FG's arrest and his death.
If FG took drugs pre-arrest, would they remain in system for 5 (?) days to be detected in autopsy?

Does hosp do tox screens for st drugs on ER intake, as protocol w this kind of admission?

 

[mysteriew]

Something is bothering me. Has from the beginning. We have heard a lot about the spinal injury. We have even heard a little about a head injury (unverified and with no mention of a skull fracture). We have heard a lot of theories that could possibly explain those injuries. But IMO none of those possible theories explain reported trachea injuries. Yet reportedly throat injuries contributed to his death. Do they think the throat injuries were a result of resuscitation? Or a part of the crime? And if part of the crime, how did he get them?

 

[vanlutz]

IMO we need to start at the beginning. THey had no reason to chase him. THey then lied about the stuff with the knife. The knife he had was totally legal under their law....

"The knife was not a switchblade, and it is lawful," Mosby said

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/prosecutor-says-no-reason-to-arrest-freddie-gray-2015-5#ixzz3YwuLcUOd


My take is the 5 that did make statements it ultimatly "came out" that there was a lot of "stuff" going in terms of trying to minimize or cover or stuff like that. At this point that sounds like speculation, but for a young driven SA, to put her career on the line when the globe is watching just seems really unlikly. THey know a lot more than we do, and i think at the end of the day a couple of the officers actually told the truth which made all of em particpants in the tragic events that day.

Here, tongight is the first time I heard anything about heroin specfically, but that also IMO does not ring important - to charge 6 cops with a bunch of stuff -- they have to have something more signifgant etc just imo
​

They had every reason to chase him. It is fully legal for an officer in a "High Crime Rate" area to stop and search if some one runs from them. There isn't even a debate about the chase or stop.

The knife being legal comes from Mosby, and that could be completely true. However, what did the officer think when he decided to arrest him solely for the knife? The cop must have known it was legal. But, if you look at the wording of the actual statute it seems that ANY knife that is not a pocket knife might be illegal. It's going to be an issue IMO.

 

[shadowraiths]

No one was charged with actual murder which means the Prosecutor is basically conceding the fact that Gray hit his own head on purpose. But, because he wasn't seat belted in the officers are at fault.

Bolded & Underlined by me. Link, please?

 

[Curious Guy]

I am sad that a sworn officer of the court is having her integrity questioned.

FG was a victim here. Yes, he may have been a criminal in the past or on that day but once he was handcuffed and shackled the officers had a duty to protect his health and safety. Are we not a victim friendly site? FG was not saint but he died handcuffed/shackled on the floor of a police van.

In Ferguson, the police stood down on the first nights. Similar, no?

We may not like that the officers have been charged but why do people need to see the prosecutor as against LE? In Ferguson, many questioned the prosecutor but the general tone was that it was his call to go to the Grand Jury. She makes a call and every move she makes is seen as done based on her leanings toward the youth of Baltimore.

Are you equally as sad that the 6 LE are being accused of lying, homicide, murder , etc and have been convicted already by many before a trial?

 

[kaen]

Trachea/larynx could have been damaged by a knee on the neck when person is prone position as in getting cuffed.

 

[kaen]

Are you equally as sad that the 6 LE are being accused of lying, homicide, murder , etc and have been convicted already by many before a trial?

Absolutely sad. They each deserve their own day in court. No one should be convicted without a trial or denied their day in court based on their occupation, race, gender, ethnicity, socio-economic group, etc. This should be the way it happens-- charges, due process, and ability to mount a vigorous defense. If a jury or bench convicts, then, it is the rule of law.