MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #1

[bettybaby00]

Re possibility that FG swallowed heroin or other drugs while running from LEOs
bbm

IIRC, 5 to 7 days passed between FG's arrest and his death.
If FG took drugs pre-arrest, would they remain in system for 5 (?) days to be detected in autopsy?

Does hosp do tox screens for st drugs on ER intake, as protocol w this kind of admission?

I think it's almost certain a tox screen was done when he was brought into the ER, docs need to know if there are drugs in someone's system as it could effect how they proceed with treatment. I watch forensic files and during more than a few episodes they mention that in a case where someone comes into the ER critically injured and then dies days or even weeks later, blood samples taken at the time of hospital admission is often used during the autopsy as it provides more accurate results.

All of FGs medical records from his time in the hospital would become part of the record as part of the investigation.

 

[SStarr33]

Trachea/larynx could have been damaged by a knee on the neck when person is prone position as in getting cuffed.

According to Mosby, all injuries happened in the van

 

[Curious Guy]

McCullough was a long time prosecutor of unquestioned integrity. He was not an activist nor was his spouse or close family member an elected politician for the city where the crime occurred and someone who was and is vocal about police "abuse".

Mosby is brand new and last worked for an insurance company. She and her husband have both been vocal about cases viewed by the public as similar. Mosby also publicly criticized McCullough and the Ferguson process.

Mosby's husband is a councilman for the district where this happened. He's an apparently ambitious politician. I read about him being interviewed where he seemed to be essentially excusing the rioter/looters and deeming the looting going on in front of him not worthy of discussion:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/30/403382265/councilmans-star-rises-fast-amid-baltimore-unrest

Mosby criticized prosecutor McCullough in the Fergusson case and said there should be a special prosecutor. http://newsone.com/3076148/newsone-now-how-a-grand-jury-works-video/

She has criticized the working of the justice system in cases where there have not been indictments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/marilyn-mosby-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-seen-as-tough-on-police-misconduct.html

And I am concerned that her husband is a vocal activist who echoes the views of the community that elected him. He spoke against the Zimmerman verdict as did his wife, though before she was prosecutor, and proposed a boycott of FL. He also ran on some interesting positions after first losing an election. And he has spoken as though the police are certainly guilty.


http://www.wbal.com/article/101963/21/template-story/Councilman-Wants-City-Boycott-Of-Florida-Stand-Your-Ground-Bill-Proposed-In-Maryland

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/30/403382265/councilmans-star-rises-fast-amid-baltimore-unrest

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/25/freddie-gray-death-triggers-frustration-baltimore-police

I felt at times today that Mosby's actions were perhaps more political than prosecutorial. I really hope these officers are not being sacrificed for people to make names for themselves and pursue political ambitions. I really question whether Baltimore's problems are racism based and I have issue with stoking the racist flames.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17888/baltimore_riots_black_politicians

Baltimore is a city mired in violent crime, poverty and dysfunction. I wouldn't work there as anything, never mind a police officer. Despite the promises of politicians nothing has gotten better.

I have no idea what happened in this case and whether some or all of the officers involved acted negligently or criminally. I just hope the justice system is being invoked in an effort to determine that and not merely to appease the local populace and present local elected officials as "heroes" who are willing to quickly indict police without due regard for the facts.

One can feel for the victim without concluding it was criminal and condemning the police before all the facts are available. And I am very troubled by her words
that were not ones I would usually imagine a prosecutor speaking, seeming to encourage the crowd in the sentiment and allow them to continue to equate indictments and convictions of officers with "justice", thus condoning violence when the crowd doesn't get the results they deem "justice".

Excellent post. All of this was known about Mosby before today. It's why I knew with 100% certainty these officers would be facing serious charges.

 

[MissSunshine]

Something is bothering me. Has from the beginning. We have heard a lot about the spinal injury. We have even heard a little about a head injury (unverified and with no mention of a skull fracture). We have heard a lot of theories that could possibly explain those injuries. But IMO none of those possible theories explain reported trachea injuries. Yet reportedly throat injuries contributed to his death. Do they think the throat injuries were a result of resuscitation? Or a part of the crime? And if part of the crime, how did he get them?

Has anything about the throat injuries been said by anyone except the lawyer? I was trying to find something official but I couldn't. Maybe someone else will have better luck. TIA

 

[kaen]

According to Mosby, all injuries happened in the van

Remember they took him out a couple of blocks away to put the leg shackles on and complete paperwork. If he was being belligerent then they might t have pinned him down on the roadway or sidewalk. We don't know or have those details yet.

 

[CARIIS]

[h=1]Guns Confiscated in 2012 From Lieutenant Charged in Freddie Gray's Death[/h]http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/gun-confiscated-2012-lieutenant-charged-freddie-grays-death-n352446

 

[MissSunshine]

Remember they took him out a couple of blocks away to put the leg shackles on and complete paperwork. If he was being belligerent then they might t have pinned him down on the roadway or sidewalk. We don't know or have those details yet.

There is video when he was being placed in the shackles. At least one person recorded it on their cell. If he would have been pinned down, it would have been seen. The paperwork stop, I don't think there is a video of that one.

 

[SStarr33]

Remember they took him out a couple of blocks away to put the leg shackles on and complete paperwork. If he was being belligerent then they might t have pinned him down on the roadway or sidewalk. We don't know or have those details yet.

Doubtful, but we will see.

I think it happened just like they said it happened.

 

[kaen]

According to Mosby, all injuries happened in the van

Here is the statement information on taking him out of the van-

Upon arrival of the transport wagon driven by Officer Caesar Goodson. Lt. Rice Officer Miller and Officer Nero loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order. Lt. Rice then directed the BPD wagon to stop at Baker Street. At Baker Street, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero and Officer Miller removed Mr. Gray from the wagon, placed flexi-cuffs on his wrists, placed leg shackles on his ankles and completed required paperwork.

http://time.com/3843870/marilyn-mosby-transcript-freddie-gray/

 

[mysteriew]

Trachea/larynx could have been damaged by a knee on the neck when person is prone position as in getting cuffed.

You are a good person to ask about this! From what I have read it takes a direct forceful blow to the tracheal area to cause tracheal injuries. Auto accidents are the most common cause but it is sometimes seen in the elderly. But you think a knee on the neck could cause it?

 

[kaen]

There is video when he was being placed in the shackles. At least one person recorded it on their cell. If he would have been pinned down, it would have been seen. The paperwork stop, I don't think there is a video of that one.

He was shackled blocks away from the original site of arrest and the cell video. Can you link where the video is of him being leg shackled?

"Upon arrival of the transport wagon driven by Officer Caesar Goodson. Lt. Rice Officer Miller and Officer Nero loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order. Lt. Rice then directed the BPD wagon to stop at Baker Street. At Baker Street, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero and Officer Miller removed Mr. Gray from the wagon, placed flexi-cuffs on his wrists, placed leg shackles on his ankles and completed required paperwork."

 

[kaen]

You are a good person to ask about this! From what I have read it takes a direct forceful blow to the tracheal area to cause tracheal injuries. Auto accidents are the most common cause but it is sometimes seen in the elderly. But you think a knee on the neck could cause it?

I read it somewhere. I will see if I can find out how a larynx could be crushed.

Not an answer but an interesting article (out before the charges) http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-freddie-gray-medical-20150427-story.html#page=1

 

[bettybaby00]

Has anything about the throat injuries been said by anyone except the lawyer? I was trying to find something official but I couldn't. Maybe someone else will have better luck. TIA

Not that I can find...same with the 80% severed spinal cord comments. Mosby certainly didn't use any of those phrases today.

 

[MissSunshine]

He was shackled blocks away from the original site of arrest and the cell video. Can you link where the video is of him being leg shackled?

"Upon arrival of the transport wagon driven by Officer Caesar Goodson. Lt. Rice Officer Miller and Officer Nero loaded Mr. Gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seatbelt while in the wagon contrary to a BPD general order. Lt. Rice then directed the BPD wagon to stop at Baker Street. At Baker Street, Lt. Rice, Officer Nero and Officer Miller removed Mr. Gray from the wagon, placed flexi-cuffs on his wrists, placed leg shackles on his ankles and completed required paperwork."

I linked the video many posts ago. He was shackled like one block away.


ETA: I found the video again. It is here in the news clip

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-vid...die-grays-mysterious-death-in-police-custody/

 

[vanlutz]

Bolded & Underlined by me. Link, please?

It's not a link, it's Mosby's speech and the charges. The manslaughter charges come from him not be belted in not because of police brutality.

Of course all of this is guess work on everyone's part.

I did just see a fascinating expose on CNN about the paddy wagon. If it's true it's not good for the cops. That bolt that matches the injury is on the bottom of the seat where his feet should have been.

 

[Love143]

Now all the backing for it happened IN the van from obvious (warning super sarcasm alert) "awesome people" makes so much sense now.

 

[Willow Knight]

I'd love to see a bad case of the blue flu in Baltimore.

Why? Just the thought of this makes me ill. There are many good, decent people that need police protection. We need this case to go to trial and let our justice system work.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Why? Just the thought of this makes me ill. There are many good, decent people that need police protection. We need this case to go to trial and let our justice system work.

I agree. I just hope the people that protect us don't get discouraged by this case.

 

[mysteriew]

Why? Just the thought of this makes me ill. There are many good, decent people that need police protection. We need this case to go to trial and let our justice system work.

Many of the good hard working people are getting little to no police protection right now anyway. Because so many of the officers are needed at the sites of the protests.

 

[loveamystery]

One of the incognito cops on Fox this evening said Baltimore police won't be as "proactive" as they were before because the mayor and police commissioner aren't supporting them.
They were also told not to react to verbal abuse and spitting since the Ferguson thing started. That is the reason the cops didn't react when rocks were being thrown at them Monday.