MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #3 *INDICTMENT*

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  • #41
I spoke with a criminal atty about this, and they said that the law is vague and left up to interpretation of the court. This, btw, is standard. Whether it's a bench trial or jury trial. It is up to the prosecution and defense to argue their case, and depending upon their presentation, the jury makes the final finding.

They also said the state law generally trumps city laws when a case goes to trial. I was actually surprised by this claim, as it doesn't make sense to me to have city laws that differ from state laws, when they can be trumped by state law.

If that's the case, then this was a legal arrest.

I completely understand that Mosby saw Baltimore unraveling and she wanted to do something fast. But, if the charges are dropped or they're found not guilty, what she wanted to stop will unfold ten times over.
 
  • #42
  • #43
The most senior Baltimore police officer charged over the death of Freddie Gray used his position to order the arrest of a man as part of a personal dispute just two weeks before the fatal incident, prompting an internal inquiry by Baltimore police department.

During an erratic late-night episode in March, Brian Rice boasted he was a lieutenant in the Baltimore police department and warned “heads will roll” if officers in a nearby city did not “go arrest” his ex-girlfriend’s husband, according to a police report obtained by the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...icer-brian-rice-freddie-gray?CMP=share_btn_tw


2 weeks before he arrested FG.

Find it hard to comprehend anyone saying Rice's off duty conduct has nothing to do with his on duty conduct. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior - always. Jmo.
 
  • #44
He was fatally injured in the van. That doesn't mean he wasn't initially injured during the arrest.

No-one said his neck got "stomped on". It doesn't take a stomping for someone to fracture their neck (especially if they've had lead exposure, which Gray had - it causes bones to brittle). As I've posted before, there's a reason car accident victims and the like are immobolised in case of neck trauma. You can have a fractured neck and walk well enough (though Gray wasn't walking well) and talk (or scream in pain, like Gray), but it if you move a person with a fractured neck the wrong way, jostle them at the wrong angle, you can cause the bones to sever the spinal column.

The video I saw, a close up of the arrest scene, clearly shows at least one of his legs being released from somewhere over his back and falling down from that position. I will post this news item when I find the link again.

FG ran from the cops. He refused to stop when he was being chased. So if he was taken down in a rough fashion, it was on him. After being stopped he continued to resist arrest and was struggling with them and screaming. So if he was injured, it is partially his own fault. How do you grab someone and stop them from resisting with out using some force?

And we have heard that FG had long term damage from lead poisoning since childhood, which often causes damage to ones bone strength. It weakens bones in later life.

So if the cops were forced, by FG himself, to chase him and take him to the ground, and to struggle with him, to arrest him, then it might have been accidental if he had damage to his spine. His bones are compromised from childhood, and he was using drugs for years.

I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and accuse them of killing him, unless I see some evidence of them being out of control. Right now it appears to me that it was just a perfect storm of bad circumstances. And much of the bad situation was set off by FG's own bad choices. JMO


Lead has been linked to problems with the development and health of bones. At high levels, lead can result in slowed growth in children.

"Studies have shown increased likelihood of osteoporosis (weakened bones later in life) in animals exposed to lead. A review of this issue can be found in Puzas (1992). Although this link has not been established in humans, it is likely that upon closer examination of lead-exposed individuals, lead will be shown to be a new risk factor for the disease.
Research currently underway may provide more information about potential impacts of lead on osteoporosis (bone health) in the future."
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=7&po=10
 
  • #45
Steven Portnoy @stevenportnoy · 32m 32 minutes ago

Lawyers for the #Baltimore officers say Mosby's "inciting rhetoric in this case reveal clear extra-prosecutorial motivations and ambitions."

Steven Portnoy @stevenportnoy · 35m 35 minutes ago

"Rarely... has a prosecutor so directly maintained so many conflicts of interest," lawyers for the #Baltimore officers write.

Steven Portnoy @stevenportnoy · 36m 36 minutes ago

The motion for Mosby's recusal runs 107 pages, accuses her of "egregiously" violating prosecutorial ethics.
 
  • #46
Dude, welcome to the USA. You can post that all you want, but that kind of stuff happens in every government agency we have. All the way to the very top.

Not exactly world super power conduct or advertising for one - such conduct can be found in third world and developing countries as well.
 
  • #47
Interesting tweets from CNN's Sunny Hostin. Even she thinks the SA's conflicts of interests are "troubling" and an "ethical violation".

You can check out her tweets here.
https://twitter.com/SunnyHostin

Also it turns out that FG family lawyer Billy Murphy was also the SA's lawyer!

Sunny Hostin @SunnyHostin · 36m 36 minutes ago
Breaking: Baltimore police officer defendants file motion demanding State's Atty recuse herself because Gray family atty was also her lawyer
 
  • #48
The most senior Baltimore police officer charged over the death of Freddie Gray used his position to order the arrest of a man as part of a personal dispute just two weeks before the fatal incident, prompting an internal inquiry by Baltimore police department.

During an erratic late-night episode in March, Brian Rice boasted he was a lieutenant in the Baltimore police department and warned “heads will roll” if officers in a nearby city did not “go arrest” his ex-girlfriend’s husband, according to a police report obtained by the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...icer-brian-rice-freddie-gray?CMP=share_btn_tw


2 weeks before he arrested FG.

Maybe we should put this in context:

Rice claimed Andrew was violating a court-issued peace order to stay away from Karyn and her home. The Guardian understands that the order did not relate to any instances of violence.

Rice, who was placed under a temporary restraining order in 2013 after being accused in court filings of threatening to kill Andrew during a series of aggressive encounters, claimed he had spotted Andrew’s car in Karyn’s driveway after “driving by”.

Despite Obst assuring him that officers would go to the house to check on his young son’s welfare, Rice “was not satisfied”, the police report said, and instead repeatedly said Andrew McAleer must be arrested immediately.

“Heads will roll if something happens to her or the children, if you do not go arrest him,” Rice said, according to Obst. Rice added that he was a “lieutenant in the Baltimore police department” and McAleer “would be locked up instantly” if they followed his instructions, the police officer wrote.


============================================================

So apparently the ex had a court order to stay away from the home, where Rice's 4 yr old son lives. And Rice saw that his car was in the driveway. So he called the local cops and asked that he be arrested. Is that really so awful?

I am starting to understand better why Rice was not taken off the force. He did threaten to kill this Andrew guy, but it seems to be related to trying to protect his son.
 
  • #49
And if there's any doubt about there about there being an atmosphere of dense cronyism, lies and cover-up mentality in BPD.. here's Joe Crystal again, on his own experiences as an honest cop there, very worth watching:

[video=youtube;2XTNMOztwM0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XTNMOztwM0[/video]
.

There are good and bad in every facet of life. Every person and incident is singular.

If there was widespread everyday beating of suspects there'd be hundreds of suits each year. What this ex-cop describes is wrong, it shouldn't have happened. But, that's one incident. Since we don't have the other side I'll agree this looks bad, but we don't know the other side. Every side has their own story and interpretation.
 
  • #50
Dude, welcome to the USA. You can post that all you want, but that kind of stuff happens in every government agency we have. All the way to the very top.

And then we wonder why marches and protests and even riots are sometimes necessary.

If the system is corrupt, you can't use the system to file complaints and expect change.

Do I think riots are good? Nope. Are they needed? I honestly don't know. But I DO know that it's impossible to make change happen if your only avenue is going through the system that is the very problem you want fixed.
 
  • #51

Steven Portnoy @stevenportnoy · 32m 32 minutes ago

Lawyers for the #Baltimore officers say Mosby's "inciting rhetoric in this case reveal clear extra-prosecutorial motivations and ambitions."

Steven Portnoy @stevenportnoy · 35m 35 minutes ago

"Rarely... has a prosecutor so directly maintained so many conflicts of interest," lawyers for the #Baltimore officers write.

Steven Portnoy @stevenportnoy · 36m 36 minutes ago

The motion for Mosby's recusal runs 107 pages, accuses her of "egregiously" violating prosecutorial ethics.

Interesting tweets from CNN's Sunny Hostin. Even she thinks the SA's conflicts of interests are "troubling" and an "ethical violation".

You can check out her tweets here.
https://twitter.com/SunnyHostin

Also it turns out that FG family lawyer Billy Murphy was also the SA's lawyer!

Sunny Hostin @SunnyHostin · 36m 36 minutes ago
Breaking: Baltimore police officer defendants file motion demanding State's Atty recuse herself because Gray family atty was also her lawyer

So, where does this petition for recusal go next? If Mosby refuses to recuse herself, does it go to the State AG?

If it goes to the Attorney General of Maryland, And is approved to remove Mosby, would the AG then appoint a special prosecutor?

And if there is a special prosecutor, does he or she take over with the current Mosby charges in place, or would charges be dropped/ withdrawn, and the case evaluated to see if there are new or different charges?

(Brian E. Frosh, the MD AG, is a democrat, BTW.)

Boytwnmom, are you around to answer these procedural questions? What happens with this request for recusal? Can Mosby just ignore it?
 
  • #52
FG Family lawyer up next on CNN
 
  • #53
The motion may go into the Guinness Book of World Records if it's 107 pp. as reported.
 
  • #54
  • #55
The motion may go into the Guinness Book of World Records if it's 107 pp. as reported.

I'm glad the officer's attorneys are acting swiftly, and cooperatively.

At a minimum, all 6 of these cases, IMO, should be severed, and each should separately be brought before a Grand Jury.

The way in which these charges were brought is truly appalling, IMO.

But I am also very wary of a special prosecutor.
 
  • #56
Wolf Blitzer asked FG family attorney Billy Murphy "did you do legal work for Marilyn Mosby". Murphy responds "I have no current recollection of that - I'll have to look into it and if I did address it"
 
  • #57
Motion filed to have Marilyn Mosby recuse herself
Motion filed by Officer Edward Nero's attorney

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/Motion-filed-to-have-Marilyn-Mosby-recuse-herself/32895776?absolute=true

"It gives five reasons, including the seizing of personal gain by Mosby and her husband [who represents FG's district], personal relationships with individuals who will be witnesses at trial, the role of her office as the investigators, the pending civil claim against Mosby and her office, and the financial interest of the attorney for the Gray family, who they claim is a close friend of Mosby."
 
  • #58
Family attorney: Hasn't seen the knife, Hasn't made a determination if it was legal or not.

Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk 2
 
  • #59
If the locals want change, then maybe they can also change their own actions and behaviors. Maybe if there was less violence and mayhem in their neighborhoods there would be much less police presence and police over reactions. Cops are scared and feel defensive sometimes when surrounded by gang members. It is a common human reaction when presented with dangerous circumstances. I am pretty sure that stomping on cop cars to shatter windows and set them afire does very little to calm down police attitudes towards their neighborhood. JMO

I guess it kind of boils down to the chicken or the egg. Which came first, LEO brutality against POC or POC's violence? History shows the first. But that's a whole huge other discussion ;)
 
  • #60
Off-job violence isn't relevant to on-job performance? He was violent to people he claimed to care about, how do we expect he treats strangers he believes are criminals?

I don't know if that's true or not, so many variables at work there. What I asked was if there is proof that B6 had any formal misconduct charges prior.
 
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