Measles: To Disneyland and Beyond

[Brightbird]

You were likely very healthy, maybe a little lucky overseas, but more importantly, you also benefited greatly from "herd immunity."

The more people refuse vaccinations for their children, the more likely it is that the benefits of herd immunity will be lost, or certainly severely reduced.

That is why I would vaccinate my own children, but I can't say I'd be thrilled about doing it.

 

[Concerned Mama]

Penn & Teller sum up my feelings about vaccinations, but much more bluntly (and with more uses of the "f" word) than I ever would:

http://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

 

[nrdsb4]

Just talked to a good friend of mine, ironically one of the anti-vaxxers, with whom I spent a good deal of time this weekend and the last several days, and she also came down with the same stomach bug that I had, but it was a bit worse, lasted longer. I'm thinking my flu shot just might have helped mine from being worse!!

The flu shot protects only against the influenza virus, which causes influenza, a respiratory infection.

"Stomach flu" is not caused by the same virus, so your flu shot didn't really protect you from a GI virus.

But at least you didn't have a stomach virus AND the flu. That would be pretty miserable.

 

[LinasK]

That is why I would vaccinate my own children, but I can't say I'd be thrilled about doing it.

Certainly, they're no fun, and until we discovered we could get the Flu Mist for my daughter rather than the shot, I'd literally have to peel her little fingers off the door jambs of the doctors office to get her her shot, but I've told her it's a necessary evil. A moment's pain is much better than getting sick with the Flu. Been there, done that, never want to go through that again!!!

 

[LinasK]

The flu shot protects only against the influenza virus, which causes influenza, a respiratory infection.

"Stomach flu" is not caused by the same virus, so your flu shot didn't really protect you from a GI virus.

But at least you didn't have a stomach virus AND the flu. That would be pretty miserable.

No, but I still think my immunity was better having just gotten the shot a couple of weeks ago, than my friend.

 

[gitana1]

I already stated that scientists are finding manifestations of autism in utero. My remarks about the 18 month olds are in reference to these "sudden" appearances of autism around the time of the vaccines.

With all the research done on this, there has been no study which has found a causative link between "regressive autism" and vaccines.

You can "I don't buy it" all you want. But if vaccines cause autism, it should be able to be shown to be the case in study after study, not simply in anecdotes and "videos," assuming they are done according to scientific method and proper study procedures. Especially if children are dropping into instantaneous autism immediately upon vaccination!

On the other hand, the more research is done, the more it appears to have a genetic etiology. We have a lot of research to do, but one cannot make a case for vaccines causing autism because the evidence is not there. A parent insisting it is so simply doesn't make it so.

But this is not the place for the autism argument. That's not what the thread is about.

Well, it is kind of about autism because that's a major reason why people aren't vaccinating and it is causing an outbreak. And while no link has been proved, that doesn't, logically mean there is no link.

I think it is clear that vaccines are safe. In the main. Billions get vaccinated without incident. That's super safe. But for a minority, there may be an issue.

I've looked at the studies and the summaries of the studies. None have studied the actual children who have been diagnosed with regressive autism after a vaccine. No study as to reactions, timing, etc.

And the thing is, I don;t think vaccines cause autism. But they may trigger it in some. Has anyone studied that? Not to my knowledge.

The rhetoric gets stronger as panic sets in about this. But no study has totally disproved a link. Not one. Instead, they've failed to find a link. The truth is that what experts state is: "The American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, the World Health Organization, and the Institute of Medicine all agree that there's probably no relationship between autism and vaccines." http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/vaccines-autism

That has been translated into "antivaxxers" (more rhetoric), are insane and theories about a possible link have been totally discredited. They haven't.

I think, again, but no one has responded to this, that making it us against them and calling people who have concerns stupid and selfish, is dangerous.

Bottom line is we need people to be able to make educated decisions based on reason - based on clear and honest explanations of the benefits and risks we know about and don't. Because even if there is a possible link, the benefits would still far outweigh the risks. Perhaps a different schedule would be better for some - there are plenty of doctors who are okay with that. But back people against the wall and we have a major problem.

 

[jjenny]

You can make a case that since the kids ate breakfast at some point before being diagnosed, breakfast is the cause of the autism.
Just because they were vaccinated doesn't mean that caused their autism. Studies have looked at the rates of autism in vaccinated and unvaccinated children and there is no difference.
But of course lets stop vaccinating because of an irrational fear resulting in infectious diseases coming back with a vengeance.

 

[gitana1]

That wasn't the point I was making. Diet may well play a part in helping Cancer, but NOT diet alone as some posters would advocate.

Oh I get it. Oops! I misunderstood!

 

[gitana1]

You can make a case that since the kids ate breakfast at some point before being diagnosed, breakfast is the cause of the autism.
Just because they were vaccinated doesn't mean that cause their autism.
But of course lets stop vaccinating because of an irrational fear resulting in infectious diseases coming back with a vengeance.

Well no. I don't think that's a good analogy. Breakfast is something eaten every day typically. It's not everyday that children get the MMR vaccine. It's about twice in their lives. And each of these parents who've discussed this noted a strong reaction in the child - the kind that doctors state in the paperwork you receive when you take your kid for a vaccine, is possible - lethargy, achy, feverish, swollen glands, rash.

But millions of kids get vaccines and have no reaction at all. So I don't think it's a great analogy.

 

[jjenny]

Well no. I don't think that's a good analogy. Breakfast is something eaten every day typically. It's not everyday that children get the MMR vaccine. It's about twice in their lives. And each of these parents who've discussed this noted a strong reaction in the child - the kind that doctors state in the paperwork you receive when you take your kid for a vaccine, is possible - lethargy, achy, feverish, swollen glands, rash.

But millions of kids get vaccines and have no reaction at all. So I don't think it's a great analogy.

If vaccines were causing autism, then there should have been a increase in the rate of autism in vaccinated children vs. unvaccinated children.
But studies who look at those rates didn't find a significant increase.

 

[nrdsb4]

Deleted.

 

[LinasK]

Oh I get it. Oops! I misunderstood!

Sorry, my mistake, I see now that I wasn't clear. This poster believes that no medicines are appropriate, with the exception of for Type I diabetes.

 

[gitana1]

If vaccines were causing autism, then there should have been a increase in the rate of autism in vaccinated children vs. unvaccinated children.
But studies who look at those rates didn't find a significant increase.

Yes, that's true. There have been two studies that found no increase. And one was a sizeable population in Denmark. But here's a study that found a link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170

 

[FindHG]

I used to vaccinate kids and moms in refugee camps. This whole thing about parents here not wanting to vaccinate their kids, not because they lacked access, with all that is known about their effectiveness, blew me away.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing." A. Pope

 

[Brightbird]

No, but I still think my immunity was better having just gotten the shot a couple of weeks ago, than my friend.

I would have thought the opposite, if anything. The vaccination puts stress on your immune system making you more susceptible to other infections. What do our medical folk think?

 

[JLSChook]

This thread has been a pleasure to read. Truly.

Thanks to everyone on both sides of the debate for your eloquent posts, informative links and opinions.

I have been vaccinated and so have my children. (now adults). I think it was the right (and smart!) thing to do.

CoolJ: I used to be like you wrt medications. In so many ways, I still am. Whether anyone likes it or not, some doctor's (and big pharma) are "drug-pushers".....DON'T throw stuff at me for saying that because we all know it's true, in some instances. (not for life threatening illnesses)

I won't derail the thread though but it would be nice to have a meaningful discussion about this in the basement.

Off to take my inhalers now. I like breathing. Without them, I'd be dead.

 

[wendybtn]

If vaccines were causing autism, then there should have been a increase in the rate of autism in vaccinated children vs. unvaccinated children.
But studies who look at those rates didn't find a significant increase.

The one case that I am aware of in the world where a vaccine (possibly MMR but I won't swear to it; but a typical childhood vaccine), was causally related to autism was a little girl in Western Europe who had a 100,000,000 in 1 enzyme deficiency that cascaded into all sorts of problems after a vaccine. She is covered by the vaccine fund. But is was the combination of the incredibly rare enzyme deficiency plus the vaccine, not just the vaccine.

For millions of parents like myself, who have a child undergoing chemo, or any child with an impaired immune system (AIDS, HIV+, transplant, etc.), the thought of my child going to school with less than 90% vaccinated people in his age group, scares me more than the cancer he is currently fighting. This cancer is curable. A virus running rampant in his body may kill him before we know what we are fighting.

 

[nrdsb4]

Best wishes for your child's full recovery, wendybtn. Nothing worse than seeing your child suffer.

 

[Sonya610]

If vaccines were causing autism, then there should have been a increase in the rate of autism in vaccinated children vs. unvaccinated children.
But studies who look at those rates didn't find a significant increase.

It is widely thought that autism is being diagnosed instead of other problems. For example developmental language disorder, mental retardation and schizophrenia; a few decades ago THOSE were widely diagnosed but now they would be considered autism.

Basically the actual rate has NOT gone up, it just looks like a huge increase while other diagnoses have sharply decreased.

To most experts in autism and autism epidemiology, the biggest factors accounting for the boost in autism prevalence are the shifting definitions and increased awareness about the disorder. Several decades after the introduction of autism as a diagnosis, researchers have reported that professionals are still engaging in “diagnostic substitution”: moving people from one diagnostic category, such as “mental retardation” or “language impairment,” to the autism category.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/c...oticing-more-people-who-have-it/#.VNJBnS5Mbqs

 

[MsFacetious]

Don’t Let the Measles Destroy Parental Rights

https://unitedfamiliesinternational...dont-let-the-measles-destroy-parental-rights/