Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #10

[otto]

He did not bang. And she assumed he had to pee. :razz::razz::slap:

So Meredith, alone in the cottage, would open the door at night, after dark, to anyone who was knocking at the door? I highly doubt it.

 

[otto]

But nobody has claimed that MK and RG were buddies, except YOU!

What I and others have said is what is known: that MK met RG briefly and RG was a friend of MK's boyfriend. How comfortable MK may have felt around RG isn't known and we have no way of asking her.

The fact that she is dead and can't be asked, however, does NOT prove that she mistrusted RG and wouldn't open the door to him. That is a claim of yours than also can never be proved.

It is not a claim of mine ... it is the conclusion of the jury after hearing all the evidence.

 

[Nova]

it would,if someone saw him walking into the cottage or if he told someone he was going to the cottage.I don't think he went there to hurt MK ,remember they had a very friendly conversation at the Halloween party? I think he really liked her.AK o n the other hand ,he could not stand.That's another reason why I think it's more likely MK let him in than Amanda who I think was prejudice.
Otto,I don't understand why you keep bringing up that Europeans in your mind are more intelligent than Americans? I think that's incredibly rude and wrong.
As far as the college frame of mind goes I think us Europeans just had years and years of practice with partying before we go to college.American parenting and laws just seem more conservative so the kids go all out when they finally have the legal right to IMO

In fairness to otto, I don't read his posts as claiming that Europeans are smarter than Americans. Rather, I think his point is that because countries are closer together in Europe--and politically and economically tied--European young people have more experience in foreign countries than most Americans. So they are less inclined to be careless.

Since crime rates tend to be higher here in the states, I'm not sure otto's premise is correct. But I am one American who takes no offense at his posts.

 

[dgfred]

But nobody has claimed that MK and RG were buddies, except YOU!

What I and others have said is what is known: that MK met RG briefly and RG was a friend of MK's boyfriend. How comfortable MK may have felt around RG isn't known and we have no way of asking her.

The fact that she is dead and can't be asked, however, does NOT prove that she mistrusted RG and wouldn't open the door to him. That is a claim of yours than also can never be proved.

So..... is the debate now and your opinion that the 'staged break in' is a REAL break in, or is in fact STAGED like the guilt side has argued all along.
It is getting confusing.

 

[otto]

In fairness to otto, I don't read his posts as claiming that Europeans are smarter than Americans. Rather, I think his point is that because countries are closer together in Europe--and politically and economically tied--European young people have more experience in foreign countries than most Americans. So they are less inclined to be careless.

Since crime rates tend to be higher here in the states, I'm not sure otto's premise is correct. But I am one American who takes no offense at his posts.

Mature ... I used the word mature. Raffaele's lawyer described Amanda as the Amelie fool, not I.

 

[Nova]

With your usual clarity, you hit the nail right on the head. :woot: If I did not know better, I would think you were gay (you know, the Andrew Sullivan genius of debate)--any way, EXCELLENT

Thank you. As a matter of fact, I am male and gay. I'm not sure what that means here (and I am no fan of Andrew Sullivan--though I agree he is very bright), but I recognize your words as kind. And I appreciate the thought. (ETA my being gay is no secret. It's been discussed here in many contexts over the years, so please don't worry that you have "outed" me.)

 

[sherlockh]

I thought I throw in an interesting line of a conversation between AK and her mother mentioned in the Motivations report:

"Further on Amanda goes on, saying ‚That is, I know that she had seen him before, but I don’t know why she let him into the house.‛"

So he didn't come through the window Amanda?

Correction: it is her father and here is the whole conversation:

Amanda: ‚Yes, I know, I know, I mean I hardly know him ... I never invited him to my house before.‛
Father: ‚Do you believe that Meredith did so?‛
Amanda: ‚Ah, I know that she knows him through Giacomo ... therefore‛
Father: ‚Is he one of the boys downstairs?‛
Amanda: ‚Yes, he was her boyfriend ... therefore ... perhaps he was saying: I’m looking for Giacomo ... can I come in? Or something like that...‛
Further on Amanda goes on, saying ‚That is, I know that she had seen him before, but I don’t know why she let him into the house.‛

 

[Nova]

Amanda has certainly been described as the foolish Amelie even by defense lawyers ... that is not how Meredith has been described. Knox may well think a wide open front door is normal, but I have not read anything to suggest that Meredith was equally foolish. The jury had no reason to believe that Meredith would open the door to Rudy at night when she was home alone ... just so he could use her roommate's bathroom. She was tired, had to study, and had left the company of friends because she was done socializing for the night. I agree with the court and believe that Meredith was sensible enough not to open the door, under those circumstances, because some guy that she'd met through her boyfriend was banging on the door so he could poop. I suspect she would have been freaked out by that.

Then you, like the jury, are leaping to an unsupported conclusion simply because it suits the final verdict you want to reach. IMO, obviously.

 

[Allusonz]

Thats not correct about AK and RG. RG 'fancied' AK and told the boys downstairs so. It is also likely AK knew about this infatuation. IMO RG's 'stories' about meeting Meredith are just that... stories to put himself in the best possible light since he knew there was evidence of himself at the cottage. According to all the witnesses presented, Meredith did not meet or talk to RG on Halloween.

There would have been no reason for RG to innocently want to use the bathroom at the cottage with almost everything within 5-10 minutes walking distance. If he did so, he would have had to already have a plan of assaulting Meredith. Plus IMO, what is the probability of Meredith opening the door for a virtual stranger to use the bathroom, then having some kind of relations with them AFTER using they take a dump in the bathroom? What a instant turn off. If that was the 'plan'... it was a crappy one. Pardon the pun.

So the story goes. Thus explain to me why RG states he had a "date" with MK and that they did "certain" things he simply did not kill her.

This is where you argument fails

 

[Nova]

Thats not correct about AK and RG. RG 'fancied' AK and told the boys downstairs so. It is also likely AK knew about this infatuation. IMO RG's 'stories' about meeting Meredith are just that... stories to put himself in the best possible light since he knew there was evidence of himself at the cottage. According to all the witnesses presented, Meredith did not meet or talk to RG on Halloween.

There would have been no reason for RG to innocently want to use the bathroom at the cottage with almost everything within 5-10 minutes walking distance. If he did so, he would have had to already have a plan of assaulting Meredith. Plus IMO, what is the probability of Meredith opening the door for a virtual stranger to use the bathroom, then having some kind of relations with them AFTER using they take a dump in the bathroom? What a instant turn off. If that was the 'plan'... it was a crappy one. Pardon the pun.

How fortunate for you that apparently you have never had diarrhea or any other type of colonic disorder. 10 minutes can be a long, long time.

 

[Allusonz]

Thank you. As a matter of fact, I am male and gay. I'm not sure what that means here (and I am no fan of Andrew Sullivan--though I agree he is very bright), but I recognize your words as kind. And I appreciate the thought. (ETA my being gay is no secret. It's been discussed here in many contexts over the years, so please don't worry that you have "outed" me.)

And we still luvs ya

 

[Nova]

You also have the appointment listed at the business, and other witnesses to his being in your home, plus your own records. Not the same as a random person you had 'seen' a couple of times around town that you let in to take a dump in your flatmate's bathroom while home alone.

Sorry, but if MK perceived RG to be a friend of her boyfriend's, that would trump a lot of things, including caution.

 

[Nova]

It is not a claim of mine ... it is the conclusion of the jury after hearing all the evidence.

No, otto, YOU claimed that somebody was saying MK and RG were "buddies"! It is your word and your contention.

What was actually said here was that RG was a friend of a friend of MK's. That's all.

 

[Allusonz]

So..... is the debate now and your opinion that the 'staged break in' is a REAL break in, or is in fact STAGED like the guilt side has argued all along.
It is getting confusing.

There is no 'staged breakin'. ILE did not even take the time to look for glass below. No photos were taken, ILE did not look for DNA on the wall, ILE did not look in the grass for glass or anything that could of been dropped....so far none have been able to explain to my satisfaction why this was not done.

The only conclusion I can then come to is that they really were not looking

 

[Nova]

So..... is the debate now and your opinion that the 'staged break in' is a REAL break in, or is in fact STAGED like the guilt side has argued all along.
It is getting confusing.

Honestly, I don't know, fred. I certainly started the day thinking the break-in was real and RG was surprised by MK's return home.

But after all the discussion of who may have needed a potty break when, I'm not sure that isn't a possibility as well.

 

[Allusonz]

You also have the appointment listed at the business, and other witnesses to his being in your home, plus your own records. Not the same as a random person you had 'seen' a couple of times around town that you let in to take a dump in your flatmate's bathroom while home alone.

That may well be true but if I entered a place as a repairman the last thing I would leave is the repair order if I murdered someone. If my boss asked I would simply state I had not got to that particular job yet. Again this argument breaks down

 

[wasnt_me]

So you think the experts are mistaken, and people that monkeyed with an electronic image on the internet know better?

Otto....

I think it's enough that we disagree. I agree with your statement the other day that we keep rehashing the same stuff, so in the spirit of not doing that, I believe the theory that it's RG's.

 

[Allusonz]

It is not a claim of mine ... it is the conclusion of the jury after hearing all the evidence.

It is also your claim as you have posted on this forum many times

 

[Allusonz]

but nobody has claimed that mk and rg were buddies, except you!

What i and others have said is what is known: That mk met rg briefly and rg was a friend of mk's boyfriend. How comfortable mk may have felt around rg isn't known and we have no way of asking her.

The fact that she is dead and can't be asked, however, does not prove that she mistrusted rg and wouldn't open the door to him. That is a claim of yours than also can never be proved.

so true!!!!

 

[wasnt_me]

It would not surprise me if AK and RS really do not remember much of what happened that night.I think that would fit with the way they acted after wards.Xanax for example only stays in your system for a couple of days I think so I don't think they would have detected something like that..

This is true about the Xnanex, cause i was trying to figure out why the motivations thought it was unheard of that RS would sleep later than his father suspected, why they said AK didn't awaken when RS was apparently up at 530am or something like that. They claim she never mentions him getting up at the time, though his computer logs it.

If she was down on Xanex, maybe that was why.