Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

[Allusonz]

Yeah, I got snubbed at the research oscars. Though I am a freshmen, I thought I was good at bringing in quotes and sites and ideas. It's cool, though. Maybe next year.

Now I gotta get back to this testimony.

You do though have a straight jacket!!! you and flourish seem to have a nail fetish...:innocent:

 

[Nova]

If not then, FR DEFINITELY implied it at least, by telling AK to go back and check for stolen items. Also, stories can vary once you know the full context of what happened. She now knows there was a break-in, so that's part of her conscious as she views the past, know what i'm saying?

Absolutely; that's exactly what I was thinking.

But you convinced me that Filomena was concerned about the open door and a possible break-in, so I'm sure it was discussed before AK returned to the cottage and was already on her mind before she saw the broken glass.

 

[Allusonz]

Hmmm....:waitasec: R i g h t . For one, what does "burned up by an electric shock" mean exactly? Like, fried from surge overload, or blue-screen-of-death or what?

And sorry, but, LOL at that response (AK's answer). Perhaps she said it in a tone that would convey more of a "Well, uh....if you say that then someone must have 'burned' it because I haven't seen it since I turned it off on Nov. 1." But why not just say, "No, I have no idea what you mean that my computer is burned up because the last time I used it on Nov. 1, it was working fine..."?

Just...weirdness, weirdness everywhere, and weirdness lost in translation.
I really, really should be fftobed: now...

The defense has never received an adequate response to their questions regarding this. It appears that the prosecution is stating that it was an electrical overload. If I was the defense I would be questioning this explanation as well....

 

[Nova]

I have a difficult time accepting that she just parrots back to people, and even so, that doesn't really excuse her poor answers, which, if she's just parroting, can't really be considered to be truthful answers.

I happened to watch a rerun on the Ramsey case a couple of weeks ago and they showed an extended clip of Patsy Ramsey being interrogated (months after the murder). PR had 20 years on AK and the advantage of being coached by the highest priced lawyers in Colorado and she is a model of what AK should have done.

PR basically stuck to just a few variations on, "You are wrong. I did not do this." If LE told her they had tests that showed otherwise, PR replied, "Then go back and rerun the test. I did not do this." If LE said, "Well, we can't explain X," PR replied, "I can't explain X either. But I did not kill my daughter."

But as with AK, PR was being asked to "explain" things she would have no way of explaining. The difference was age, confidence and training (some might say guilt, but that's another thread): PR was willing to seem rude and uncooperative, even seem combative, rather than be trapped into saying something that could be used against her. (And PR paid a price for that in terms of public perception.) AK tried to be a "good girl."

 

[Nova]

exactly.

I have a problem with the latitude in the questions and with the fact that the lawyers can do a commentary and lead the witness. The lawyers seem to also be testifying as they use so much background to pose their questions upon. This is not allowed in the USA, right? the opposing lawyer would "Object! Leading the witness!" so fast. Or "object! relevence?" or "Object, the lawyer is testifying. Is there a question in your commentary?"

OR do I watch too much tv?

I think in CROSS-examination, leading questions are allowed. So the prosecution can't lead its own witnesses, but the defense can. And vice versa. (And as we see in TV, on occasion a lawyer receives permission to treat his own witness as hostile.)

Or maybe I've watched too much TV.

 

[Nova]

Really? Blaming MK for not behaving right and getting herself killed?

I'm sure that's not what anyone meant.

I've read thousands of pages on this case now and have yet to see ANYONE here blame MK in any way.

I think what you are referring to was a mention that if she was surprised by RG breaking in, she never had a chance to choose a "non-confrontational" approach. Just as he never had a chance to try to talk his way out of the situation.

 

[flourish]

Know what is truly sad? Is when the defense does a video, throws a rock through the window from down below to try and recreate how he would of done it, the rock actually lands quite close to where the original landed, then people take ONE picture of that test and state many things like he could not climb up it, what a stupid defense etc., when in fact this person did climb through that window. Yes it was presented at trial. Then the judge dismisses the expert, the BALLISTICS one as he merely studies the shooting of bullets not rocks

Shakes head

RBBM
Really? How do we know this? Do we take this person's word for it?? WHERE IS THE PHOTO showing that, then? I can't imagine that in all of Italy, there isn't one interested and appropriate person who can demonstrate how to get into that window and DOCUMENT the ENTIRE process on film. :snooty::snooty::snooty:

What do you believe to be the appropriate response to this line of questioning. Please keep in mind that I am sure by now the defense has informed her that they fried her computer as it appears she was involved actively in her defense

LG: How do you explain that when your computer was subjected to examination, it was
burned up by an electric shock? Do you have any explanation?

AK: I think someone burned up my computer

I believe I stated in my earlier post that IMO the appropriate response would be, "I don't know because as I said the last time I used it on Nov. 1, when I turned it off, it was fine."

I happened to watch a rerun on the Ramsey case a couple of weeks ago and they showed an extended clip of Patsy Ramsey being interrogated (months after the murder). PR had 20 years on AK and the advantage of being coached by the highest priced lawyers in Colorado and she is a model of what AK should have done.

PR basically stuck to just a few variations on, "You are wrong. I did not do this." If LE told her they had tests that showed otherwise, PR replied, "Then go back and rerun the test. I did not do this." If LE said, "Well, we can't explain X," PR replied, "I can't explain X either. But I did not kill my daughter."

But as with AK, PR was being asked to "explain" things she would have no way of explaining. The difference was age, confidence and training (some might say guilt, but that's another thread): PR was willing to seem rude and uncooperative, even seem combative, rather than be trapped into saying something that could be used against her. (And PR paid a price for that in terms of public perception.) AK tried to be a "good girl."

Hmm...being a "good girl" takes precedence over telling the truth and maybe saving your booty...

I've been questioned by police. In an incredibly serious matter and manner, and I was not being questioned as just a witness, if you get my drift. It didn't occur to me to be anything but truthful. I certainly didn't just repeat what they just said to me even if I knew it wasn't true, or try to insinuate things, as may have been the case with AK's answer. Again, yes, she is not me, I am not her (thank goodness), but I'm hesitant to chalk it up to simply trying to be a "good girl."

Finally off of my extra-long work day, so I'm gonna quit not doing my work and go home...see ya'll there (virtually, of course...don't show up at my house --the straitjackets and wine haven't arrived yet)

 

[wasnt_me]

None of us really know what her reaction was, considering we don't know what had happened.
At best we can speculate.
Was there any evidence that she was actually fighting? I have not heard about any DNA found under her fingernails.

I have never imagined that a victim would not fight back, even if unsuccessful. In my mind, I would imagine that even a tied up victim would be trying to fight back, but can't because of the restraints. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe she laid down and just let someone stab her in the neck and rip her bra off. I certainly had never considered that possibility.

 

[wasnt_me]

BTW, that is a very good pic, had not really seen from that angle. I did not know the ground sloped like that. How far would you say it is from the top of the lower to the bottom of the upper window? Hendry of course must have measured, but I will need to check.

In the other thread, I gave very detailed reasons for why I thought he climbed the wall the last time this came up. I offered to pull those reasons over, but I guess no one wanted to see them (no research oscar....:maddening But I said the window was something like 13ft. If RG was 6 feet and the window was about 4 feet long, like the higher one, but at least three feet off the ground, you have 7 feet. If RG stood at the top of that grate, he would be shoulder level to that window sill. It is not a hard stretch to do a "pull up" to get himsef up there.

The man in that picture has proven you can get on the grate, and you see in the picture that if he takes one more step up, his shoulders will be parallel to the window. So I don't know why he couldn't then do a pullup and get on the sill.

Why can't he do that if the measurements are right? We see they are right because in that illustration, they say that man in the picture is as tall as RG. I also showed everyone where there was a scuff on the wall, where RG probably leveraged himself during the pull up.

 

[wasnt_me]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Of course you must make an acceptance speech , this is truly an elite group

This is how I'll do it

"I like to thank everyone who found my posts helpful, and those who certainly did NOT. I'd like to thank Salem, cause he gave us much latitude. But especially, I want to thank Flourish, who got me to listen to what my poo was telling me."

 

[wasnt_me]

You do though have a straight jacket!!! you and flourish seem to have a nail fetish...:innocent:

Damn, is that why we got snubbed? Cause Flourish got snubbed, too, right? Or was I by myself?

I didn't know y'all were holding the straight jacket thing against me. Dang!

But I guess my scientific study that one time about how my foot gets wet when I step in my dogs' pee on accident and then how I walk on my heel to the bathroom and sometimes hit the ground with it didn't help much?:crazy:

Maybe it was how I thought "Smooth criminal" sounded like Mk's death night that did me in? I still think it sounds like it. It could have been the inspiration of the "staged break in."

"Annie, are you okay, Annie are you okay, are you ok, annie?" LOL

 

[wasnt_me]

The defense has never received an adequate response to their questions regarding this. It appears that the prosecution is stating that it was an electrical overload. If I was the defense I would be questioning this explanation as well....

Oh, are you saying THAT's the reason they asked AK? Cause I couldn't figure out why they were even asking. But you're saying that they were trying to get the info in front of the jury that LE messed up the computer.

Were they not able to question computer foresensics on the stand? I think it's so weird, too, that they dismissed experts who were foreign, I guess implying to me that they'd only accept Italian experts?

 

[wasnt_me]

I happened to watch a rerun on the Ramsey case a couple of weeks ago and they showed an extended clip of Patsy Ramsey being interrogated (months after the murder). PR had 20 years on AK and the advantage of being coached by the highest priced lawyers in Colorado and she is a model of what AK should have done.

PR basically stuck to just a few variations on, "You are wrong. I did not do this." If LE told her they had tests that showed otherwise, PR replied, "Then go back and rerun the test. I did not do this." If LE said, "Well, we can't explain X," PR replied, "I can't explain X either. But I did not kill my daughter."

But as with AK, PR was being asked to "explain" things she would have no way of explaining. The difference was age, confidence and training (some might say guilt, but that's another thread): PR was willing to seem rude and uncooperative, even seem combative, rather than be trapped into saying something that could be used against her. (And PR paid a price for that in terms of public perception.) AK tried to be a "good girl."

Yes, this is a good example. As well as those two I cited before about Ryan furgeson versus his friend chuck and the differences in their interviews. PR was like Ryan, who stayed strong in his innocence. But Chuck gave into the police's "imagine this" and "explain that" techniques, as AK might have.

 

[wasnt_me]

I'm sure that's not what anyone meant.

I've read thousands of pages on this case now and have yet to see ANYONE here blame MK in any way.

I think what you are referring to was a mention that if she was surprised by RG breaking in, she never had a chance to choose a "non-confrontational" approach. Just as he never had a chance to try to talk his way out of the situation.

Wow, you totally and succinctly summed it right up. That's exactly the point I had been making. :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I think I'd touched on this before in another thread when I'd compared it to his response to that preschool lady. She was calm, but the situation was different. It was daytime, she was at work, not in her own home, and I think she had other people with her.

So she was calm when she saw RG come out of her office. He tried to talk his way out of it.

Understandably, MK was most likely NOT calm when she saw him in HER private house AT NIGHT and she was alone. MK might even have been a frightened calm at first and managed to ask, "What are you doing here?" but I can "imagine and guess" that as her brain was calculating thta he had no business there and couldn't be up to any good, he probably sensed that she was about to run or scream or something, and the conversation would have totally deteriorated.

So I'm guessing. I am extremely curious about what happened in those moments, because even though it's horrible surely, these were MK's last moments. And if they were horrible, at least I can know it and tell her I'm sorry.

I do that sometimes. I speak to the victims. DO NOT think I'm weird. But if I'm outside smoking, I'll think of them and what happened to them and I might utter, "I'm so sorry Meredith." and I might cry.

So yes. I want to know and guess about her last moments because I want her spirit to know and feel (if you believe that sort of thing) that people cared about her suffering. Sorry if I seem to be putting on my straight jacket, but I have deep empathy for victims and I cry for them a lot as I imagine what happened to them. My theories might be wrong, but I do care so very much.

It reminds me, I was studying jonestown, and listening to that last 45 minutes tape when they drank that poison and died, oh, man was I crying.

 

[flourish]

I have never imagined that a victim would not fight back, even if unsuccessful. In my mind, I would imagine that even a tied up victim would be trying to fight back, but can't because of the restraints. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe she laid down and just let someone stab her in the neck and rip her bra off. I certainly had never considered that possibility.

Well, and if it was indeed three against one, then she wouldn't have had much of a chance.
I'm a bit disturbed at the statement that "maybe she laid down and just let someone..."

There's a middle ground between going all whoop-a$$ on someone and just lying there and taking it... :sigh:

 

[wasnt_me]

Well, and if it was indeed three against one, then she wouldn't have had much of a chance.
I'm a bit disturbed at the statement that "maybe she laid down and just let someone..."

There's a middle ground between going all whoop-a$$ on someone and just lying there and taking it... :sigh:

True, but it was asked if there was any evidence of fighting.

I took that to mean, if there wasn't evidence, she didn't fight. So going on that vain, I went somewhere I have never gone before, which is considering that MK had just laid down and let it happen. As I said in the post, I imagine that a victim, even if tied up would fight, though most likely unsucessfully. I imagine the same situation if MK had been attacked by more than one. I still think she'd fight, though she'd most likely be unsuccessful. And Id assume she fought despite whether there was "evidence" of it. I take her death as "evidence" that she fought, because I can't imagine someone willingly laying their life before a to just kill them.

I could be wrong. I suppose you might not fight if a gun is involved. maybe you're too petrified to fight. But I at least like to believe the victims fight back at least some.

 

[wasnt_me]

From her testimony, AK seems unaware of friction in the cottage:

LG: For instance on the fact that there was a certain friction between
you and-- between the roommates. The English girls all said that there
was some friction in the house over some specific facts. Do you agree with
this, with what the girls said?

AK: Well, actually, I was astonished and didn't feel right about what they said,
because I don't think I deserved that attitude. I never did anything with
them that deserved that.
LG: But was it true that there was friction in the house?

AK: For me, no.

GCM: But do you remember this? These friends of Meredith stated that Meredith had
some complaints during confrontations--

AK: Meredith--

GCM: -- if it's true, about the ways of living together, of keeping order, in
the bathroom and the house. This essentially, if I remember right, is what the
English friends said when they referred to what Meredith told them about your
behavior.

AK: Certainly. When Meredith had a problem with my behavior she just told me, and
that was it. There was nothing that stayed hidden or for which we couldn't
find some solution. If she had something to tell me, she told me.

LG: Listen, did your relations with Meredith actually change over the time period?

AK: No, it was only that I went out to work, so I didn't have time any more,
or even the energy to go around, to have a drink at Merlin's for example.

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

 

[claudicici]

The Nigerian's response should tell you everything you need to know about how intense the media coverage was and what the mindset of the jurors was when they began the trial.

And that includes the greatly inflated reports of AK's "callousness". I don't pretend to know her or to know exactly how she felt; but I do know few of us have any training for reacting to a murdered friend.

...but I don't think the reports are greatly inflated.All I need to do is read her own words,the e-mail she wrote to her friends and family to find proof of this.
That's why I'm conflicted,because when I think about RG I feel fear and disgust but also a level of understanding and it just blows my mind that I could have more sympathy for this then someone like AK.I think empathy for a murdered friend should not require any training.

 

[wasnt_me]

LG: I see. Do you remember when you called Filomena, more or less, on that
morning?

AK: I called Filomena when Raffaele advised me to call someone.

LG: And what did Filomena say?

AK: Filomena was worried. She asked me if I had called Meredith, and I said
I had already called but she wasn't answering. I told her what I had seen,
and she said "OK, when you've finished, go to the house and check everything
that happened and call me back."

LG: And the carabinieri? Did Filomena say anything about calling the
carabinieri or the police?

AK: I don't know how to call the carabinieri or the police, but she only told
me to go see how things were.

LG: Did you try to climb over the balcony?

AK: Yes. When I saw that Meredith's door was locked, and that if she was in
there, she wasn't answering, I really wanted to find out whether she was in
there or not. I was confused about this, because why should her door be locked
if she wasn't inside? So first I tried -- the way the house is situated,
she had a window near that little balcony, so I first tried to climb over
the balcony to see if I could see inside. But I couldn't, and [laughing]
Raffaele was saying "No, get back here!" and pulling me back onto the balcony.
So then he tried to knock the door down.

LG: Yes, and I know that you had tried to open the door together, hadn't you?

AK: Yes. Raffaele tried giving it a kick, and also pushing it with his shoulder
to open it, because we didn't know why that door should be locked.

LG: And you also tried calling out Meredith's name?

AK: Of course, and I also tried looking in the keyhole.

 

[claudicici]

Yes, this was misleading, to say the least. Of course the policeman is your friend if you need protection, but during an interrogation, he is anything but. I am having to tell my 23 year old son, who has Aspberger syndrome, never to speak with police without a lawyer present, lest he "wind up like Amanda Knox".

Thank you for sharing about your son,I know I may be way off with AK and Aspberger but I do have a friend,who is an amazing person and I love him dearly but a lot of times he does seem to come across as only caring about his own interests and that's when I have to remind myself about his Asperger.It's strange because at times he seems to care so much and I know he feels just as deep as anyone else but it just comes across odd at times.