Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12

[Nova]

Oh yeah, I see 'nonsense':

'Perugia LE first coerced a false statement' So did she get RE-COERCED???

'used his office to strong-arm witnesses such as the homeless heroin addict'
I suppose you have proof of this?

'CNN handled Mignini with kid-gloves' That's rich... at least he had the nads to take on the nonsense and the PR campaign.

Also noted nonsense:
'didn't fit your theory of the case' :floorlaugh: Nothing you think about this case fits my theory, because it is like explaining something to a deaf man.

The coercion of AK continued for many hours. Mignini was brought in in the middle, as you know perfectly well.

I said the program "hinted" that Mignini has strong-armed the heroin addict, that the latter had received favors in return for his testimony. Mignini was shown strongly denying that any such thing happened. Since it wasn't my claim in the first place, I don't really have to prove it happened.

 

[Allusonz]

Interview with Raffaele Sollecito, beware all it is a google translate

"I am innocent" - "Amanda has been dragged into this situation like me, in the same way. She is unrelated to the facts that we are charged as much as I am. The evening and the night Meredith was killed, she and I were at my house. Never had suspicions about her, why not have them, "says Raffaele. Who rebels against the image that has been sewn on, that of a weak boy, who became brainwashed by Amanda ... "I think I'm an honest guy, good and sincere. In this ridiculous story the only person who has made ​​"plagiarism" was Amanda (during interrogation, ed), but not his fault


http://translate.google.com/transla...non-mi-ha-plagiato-190611480854.shtml&act=url

 

[Allusonz]

More info on the wounds to MK

The autopsy results concluded that it took her several minutes to die, as she inhaled her own blood. Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound, her lungs filled with blood causing asphyxiation and she had suffered bruising to her vagina and perineum

Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

The forensic pathologist, Dr. Lalli, initially concluded that the pattern of bruises, defensive wounds/cuts, and stab wounds could not indicate whether one or multiple attackers had been present. There were larger cuts on her right hand, possibly as defensive wounds (with no one restraining her right hand), but only small cuts on her left hand. Both hands were covered in blood, as if holding her neck after it was stabbed. Dr. Lalli concluded that strangulation was attempted before the stab wounds were made

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/

 

[Nova]

Is it possible that RG's DNA ended up inside MG as a result of tossing her around and there was no rape after all?

"Bruising of the vagina and perineum" could obviously occur as a result of rape. I'm wondering if the same bruising (and DNA inside the vagina) could result from restraining the victim or from tossing her onto the bed, etc.

 

[SMK]

Is it possible that RG's DNA ended up inside MG as a result of tossing her around and there was no rape after all?

"Bruising of the vagina and perineum" could obviously occur as a result of rape. I'm wondering if the same bruising (and DNA inside the vagina) could result from restraining the victim or from tossing her onto the bed, etc.

I have always been under the impression that Guede's "skin cells" - whether from his penis or finger - were found inside MK thus showing that either rape or molestation had occurred (consensual sex as Guede claims seems highly, highly improbable ).

from an article:
Much of the same evidence was heard and reviewed in both trials. Forensic evidence places Guede at the scene of the crime: his bloody shoe prints and palm prints were found around Kercher and a skin cell trace of his DNA was identified from a vaginal swab.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Italian-judges-report-Amanda-Knox-says-she-was-1034687.php#ixzz1Lzwb4iYF

 

[Nova]

I guess I'm asking if you grab someone roughly between the legs while restraining her, couldn't you end up with the same bruising and DNA deposited accidentally?

I'm not an expert on female anatomy, but IIRC there is no locked door down there.

 

[SMK]

More info on the wounds to MK

The autopsy results concluded that it took her several minutes to die, as she inhaled her own blood. Her hyoid bone was broken, her superior thyroid artery had been severed by a stab wound, her lungs filled with blood causing asphyxiation and she had suffered bruising to her vagina and perineum

Murdered British student Meredith Kercher had at least 23 separate injuries on her body

The evidence was disclosed as jurors in the murder trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were shown graphic photographs and video footage of the post mortem on Ms Kercher's body

The forensic pathologist, Dr. Lalli, initially concluded that the pattern of bruises, defensive wounds/cuts, and stab wounds could not indicate whether one or multiple attackers had been present. There were larger cuts on her right hand, possibly as defensive wounds (with no one restraining her right hand), but only small cuts on her left hand. Both hands were covered in blood, as if holding her neck after it was stabbed. Dr. Lalli concluded that strangulation was attempted before the stab wounds were made

http://toestraighteners.com/murder-of-meredith-kercher/

thanks for this - I had recalled correctly that initial reports were of 40 wounds, then down to 23. And it is not impossible that one attacker only was involved.

 

[Nova]

I guess I'm asking if you grab someone roughly between the legs while restraining her, couldn't you end up with the same bruising and DNA deposited accidentally?

I'm not an expert on female anatomy, but IIRC there is no locked door down there.

Sorry to answer my own question, but accidental damage to the vaginal region doesn't explain why RG so quickly and readily "confessed" to consensual sex with MK. He must have deliberately assaulted her sexually if he thought he had to explain what happened "down there."

 

[SMK]

I guess I'm asking if you grab someone roughly between the legs while restraining her, couldn't you end up with the same bruising and DNA deposited accidentally?

I'm not an expert on female anatomy, but IIRC there is no locked door down there.

Yes, I would think it is possible (especially because it appears, from the article I quoted above, that there was "a trace")---Yes, it could be from a struggle, if the victim was naked from the waist down, and was being grabbed, pulled. I would assume so. But then we must ask: Why would Guede take her pants off, fight with her, and have no sexual contact? It is possible that she fought too hard and he gave up. But it also opens the door to the idea of humiliating her with Knox and Sollecito!

 

[miley]

Is it possible that RG's DNA ended up inside MG as a result of tossing her around and there was no rape after all?

"Bruising of the vagina and perineum" could obviously occur as a result of rape. I'm wondering if the same bruising (and DNA inside the vagina) could result from restraining the victim or from tossing her onto the bed, etc.

this is what I was reading...

Initially police and the pathologist Dr Luca Lalli worked on the theory that she had been the victim of a violent sex game that had gone wrong.

But now Dr Lalli has indicated to prosecutor Giuliano Mignini that there are "no markings or bruises" on Miss Kercher's body that indicate she was raped or sexually assaulted.

However Dr Lalli said that there did appear to be evidence of "some form of sexual activity" and that he could not rule out that she had been forced to take undergo a sex act "under the threat of violence."

The report said that male DNA, traced to suspect Rudy Hermann Guede, 20, was found inside Miss Kercher, from Coulsdon, Surrey, but the likelihood was that this was finger skin cells or at the outside chance saliva.

(snip)Dr Lalli also suggested that he could not rule out the possibility that the sex act could have in fact taken place the day before she was murdered.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1578560/Meredith-Kercher-may-not-have-been-raped.html​

sex in general can cause "bruising of the vagina and perineum" (waxing can too)... i'm guessing there were no typical signs of rape .. he had to of stabbed her first

 

[wasnt_me]

Well that one got me out of my lurking. The accused has the right to lie and say false things, but the fact that he is lying cannot be used as proof against him? WTF?

Thanks for poking your voice in. I have no idea what they are talking about. But it, along with other convuluted things, are in RG's appeal. You can find it at the true justice site. I downloaded it off that page that was talking about the CNN show.

 

[wasnt_me]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but did MK have bruising to indicate that she was held down by multiple people? I imagine that in the struggle of being raped/attacked, there would be lots of bruising.

I personally don't think it takes more than one person to beat the mess out of someone. Especially if one happens to be stronger, the other is fighting back, and they are knocking into furniture. According the Hendry's analysis, the furniture was shoved in different direction, indicating a violent struggle. Again, I think if 3 people are holding her down, she'd not going to get bruises all over her, and she's not going to get cuts on her hands, because they'd assuredly be holding her hands down. And also, I'd like to know if any of these bruises are on her wrists.

We were discussing earlier a case where one man killed a house full of people using knives, hammers, whatever, and he had inflicted 60 something wounds on one person. He'd worked alone. I heard of a woman who stabbed her husband 127 something times. However, for part of that, she had tied him down.

 

[Malkmus]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...evidence-judge-tells-amanda-knox-prosecution/

"Stop withholding evidence, judge orders Amanda Knox prosecution"

This seems rather relevant to the current discussion. Looks like Hellman has demanded that Stefanoni hand over the .fsa files as well as other documents related to the DNA testing. This pretty much confirms what the Knox representatives have been saying all along. Apparently, Stefanoni isn't playing ball. I get a bad feelings that things will turn up "missing" when push comes to shove. We've had hard drives destroyed, interrogations not taped, forensic evidence corroded beyond retesting - - are these files next?

 

[wasnt_me]

What part(s) do you consider 'stretching'?

What part(s) 'affirmed' you belief in innocence?

I knew I'd get this question, but for me answer it, I'd have to go part by part and correct him on some of his dated "facts," correct what is really evidence and what has been already thrown out or discounted by the time of trial or the appeal, and it's really too much work. Honestly, or else I'd do it.

Maybe if the inspiration strikes me, I'll go for it, but the hard thing about this case if correcting people on dated "facts" and testimony that isn't really valid because the newspaper printed it wrong, witnesses have been discredited etc. I'm not copping out. Had a long day, but maybe i'll do it in the next couple days, so we can discuss it.

I'm half way through the CNN piece. Though I believe in AK and RS's innocence, I have to agree that the CNN story is not interested in really delving into the prosecution side. but again. I'm only 20 minutes into it (without commericals). It's 40 minutes without commericals. I can't say that I admonish them for being pro-innocence because in the first couple years, all we heard in the news was pro-guilt. It's actually good to hear touts of innocence coming out more and more. You might not see it that way, but I do.

 

[wasnt_me]

The questions raised by TJMK are the kind that a truly honest reporter/host should ask in an interview with a AK/RS supporter... wonder why they never do :waitasec: ???

This I cannot agree with. That site had some supurfluous questions. I know you will ask me to explain that, but I'd like to know in return how questions about suppositions and untrue facts are good questions. For example, I recall that one question was about the guy who saw AK at the store at 745am. That didn't even happen. My question to that question is why did he take a year to come forward? Why did he not tell the police immediately when they came to him questioning him? Why could he not pick AK out in a line up? Why does it matter if she were there or not if NO WHERE in any crime scene was there bleach?

One question was about RS's computer. We have new information that he used it at least until 926pm, and we have new information that he was playing CD's which made his screen saver go on and off as he changed them.

Also, I'd ask why were the majority of computers given to foresenics destroyed? How can we truly say what AK and RS were doing if the police destroyed the evidence?

I can go on in this vein with each question, but I don't remember all of them. If people who believe in the guilt can answer those questions, it'd be great.

 

[miley]

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2...evidence-judge-tells-amanda-knox-prosecution/

"Stop withholding evidence, judge orders Amanda Knox prosecution"

This seems rather relevant to the current discussion. Looks like Hellman has demanded that Stefanoni hand over the .fsa files as well as other documents related to the DNA testing. This pretty much confirms what the Knox representatives have been saying all along. Apparently, Stefanoni isn't playing ball. I get a bad feelings that things will turn up "missing" when push comes to shove. We've had hard drives destroyed, interrogations not taped, forensic evidence corroded beyond retesting - - are these files next?

What?!

UPDATE: Google, under pressure from Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, has pulled the plug on Perugia Shock, according to creator Frank Sfarzo. You can still see Perugia Shock on the Wayback Machine. Sfarzo, already threatened by Perugia police, says that Mignini has accused him of defamation through the press. He wrote the only Amanda Knox case blog written in English by an Italian journalist in Perugia.​

 

[wasnt_me]

Where shall I start

hhhhhhhhhhmmmmm this is tough it truly is so lets go with this part*****

sniped for space

thanks. Maybe after yours I won't need to do mine.

 

[Malkmus]

Not going bad, since it can not be retested they will be going over the previous testing/procedures/results. Up to this point several of Italy's top forensic minds have verified them so it shouldn't be a problem for the prosecution.

How do YOU see it?

The defense was not 'denied' anything... and you most likely know that.
The case IMO does not completely revolve around the knife or bra-clasp evidence anyway... as there is other proof of their guilt.

Where do you get that "several of Italy's top forensic minds have verified" the DNA results? More trash from TJMK?

How do I see it? I think the Stefanoni has been shying away from her techniques since the beginning. And ILE has made several inexcusable blunders. Therefore I don't have any faith that the DNA results were obtained properly the first time around. What puzzles me is your bold confidence in any thing ILE does, despite their horrendous track record. In fact none of the current trial hearings have been positive for the prosecution in any way, so I don't really get it. Personally I've never had much faith in AK or RS being set free, but the more and more we learn it does seem that there is actually hope. Hellman seems to be much more sensible than Massei.

"The defense was not 'denied' anything... and you most likely know that."

Wrong.

 

[Malkmus]

What?!

UPDATE: Google, under pressure from Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, has pulled the plug on Perugia Shock, according to creator Frank Sfarzo. You can still see Perugia Shock on the Wayback Machine. Sfarzo, already threatened by Perugia police, says that Mignini has accused him of defamation through the press. He wrote the only Amanda Knox case blog written in English by an Italian journalist in Perugia.​

If the prosecution spent less time hiding evidence, destroying evidence, and silencing reporters they'd have a lot more credibility. This all really makes them look quite loony.

 

[wasnt_me]

I don't know. I assume RG had to incapacitate MK in some manner before raping her (particularly if he penetrated her with one hand while masturbating with the other). Since there is no evidence MK was ever tied and bound, I assume that means RG stabbed her first and then pleasured himself as she was dying or dead. Both possibilities strike me as equally disturbing.

All of which is why it is so outrageous to suggest that AK was somehow the "mastermind" in all this! There is NO evidence that she sexually assaulted MK, nor is there anything in her history that suggests she would be a party to such an attack.

Yet ILE, under Mignini's direction, implies that AK is somehow most responsible for what happened to MK?! I don't get it.

I think that's exactly what he did and then probably in the middle of it or at the end of it (I believe he used his organ, not fingers) he realized she was dying or the seriousness of it and rushd to get the towels to help her, but it was too late. Either that, he was was totally callous and used the towels to wipe down his own body. We'll never know since they improperly stored the towels and they couldn't be tested for DNA.