I think the article above pretty much settles this one, Fred. You've fought it tooth and nail since the beginning, without much reason, and now we have an exchange of letters from Judge Hellman telling her to hand over the files, her response where she tries to evade the request, and his subsequent explanation that she has to hand everything over. As ILE said, "Caso chiuso". I think this petty debate is finally over.
Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #12
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I think the article above pretty much settles this one, Fred. You've fought it tooth and nail since the beginning, without much reason, and now we have an exchange of letters from Judge Hellman telling her to hand over the files, her response where she tries to evade the request, and his subsequent explanation that she has to hand everything over. As ILE said, "Caso chiuso". I think this petty debate is finally over.
wasnt_me
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I read there was bruising to her labia, which is the entrance. I just really don't think RG was digitally doing anything but slicing with a knife. I think he had full on sex with her an ejaculated on the pillow, and he stepped in it. when he got up. I don't know where they got this digital crap from. They act as if no man in history as ever pulled out pre-ejaculation before. I hate to be graphic, but he could have forced himself in a few times without ejaculating and then masterbated the rest of the way, as well.
Allusonz
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It appears Miley that there is no longer a Perugia Shock I can't even get a cached version
ETA Reports seem to indicate that it has been seized need some verification though
wasnt_me
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If the sex took place a day before, where is the DNA from that partner? That would have been Halloween. We'd have to look back at statements to see what her friends said about that night. We know she got home at 530am. Was her bf in town?
Allusonz
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Allusonz
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Ok I have to state that I am actually speechless for once. It sounds like things are comming apart at the seams rapidly
OMG - me too! I don't even know what to say... disturbing to say the least
I've read that executives over at google have had their own (unrelated) legal problems in Italy .. defamation etc (threatened w/ jail even)
Why do YOU think they asked for additional time, Fred?
You've said repeatedly that those defending Knox and Sollecito are only making excuses. But why all the excuses for Mignini and ILE? If the defense claims they don't have all the files they're lying. If news reports claim the clasp rusted from being stored in water they're misinformed. If the experts need more time because there might be findings of contamination or they don't have all the files they need, then it's being misreported. If CNN makes a documentary favoring the pair's innocence it's because the Knox PR machine is running the network.
It seems irrational and frankly a bit paranoid to distrust absolutely any news that makes ILE look bad.
i'm not sure when he went out of town and I think (like Allusonz was saying) this part of the trial was done behind closed doors.
wasnt_me
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Okay, it's time for Obama to send the Navy seals for Mignini.
wasnt_me
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Here's what RG's appeal says about MK's sexual bruising:
A) The injuries suffered by the girl, as indicated above, support a finding of an attempted
sexual act, one of insistent violence, in order to break her will, as was revealed by the injuries
related to the presumed use of two knives, given the different thicknesses of her wounds, and
especially the superficial wound on her cheek, and the purplish spots of bruising present on
the internal surface of the victim’s labia minora, which revealed evidence of a rushed
attempted rape or else [a sexual act] against the will of the passive subject; also the bruising
on the victim's thighs revealed that pressure was applied.
In my opinion, which means nothing really, you get thigh bruising and inner labia bruising from someone forcefully having sex with you, most likely in a missionary position.
A) The injuries suffered by the girl, as indicated above, support a finding of an attempted
sexual act, one of insistent violence, in order to break her will, as was revealed by the injuries
related to the presumed use of two knives, given the different thicknesses of her wounds, and
especially the superficial wound on her cheek, and the purplish spots of bruising present on
the internal surface of the victim’s labia minora, which revealed evidence of a rushed
attempted rape or else [a sexual act] against the will of the passive subject; also the bruising
on the victim's thighs revealed that pressure was applied.
In my opinion, which means nothing really, you get thigh bruising and inner labia bruising from someone forcefully having sex with you, most likely in a missionary position.
wasnt_me
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Here are RG's stories, based upon a judge's renderence in the appeal, page 17:
d) the omissions, the holes and contradictions in the various versions given by the defendant
during the various statements made during the proceedings. In his interrogation by the
judicial authorities of Koblenz on Nov. 21, 2007 he spoke of having flirted - without
indicating places and times - with Meredith on Oct. 31, 2007, of having made a date with her
for the next day, of not having performed any sexual approach in the girl's house, of having
gone to the bathroom from where he heard the doorbell ring. In his interrogation before the
magistrate [interrogatorio di garanzia] on Dec. 12, 2007, however, he stated that he met the
girl on Oct. 31 in the house of some Spanish students and did not meet her later in the
"Domus" pub, that the next day, shortly before going to the date with Meredith, he had met
his friends A and P, that later he confided to the latter that he had a date with a girl, and that
he had penetrated Meredith's sexual area with his fingers while [they were] in the kitchenliving
room of her flat. In the third interrogation, by the P.M. [public prosecutor] on March
26, 2008, he changed the place of his meeting with Kercher on Oct. 31 from the Spanish
students' house to the Domus pub, repeated that he had heard the sound of the doorbell while
he was in the toilet, and declared for the first time that he had recognised the voice of
Amanda Knox speaking with Meredith Kercher, [and] that after surprising the man with the
knife and [seeing] Kercher's body on the floor, he seemed to recognise her on the path that
leads to the entrance of the house, along which she was leaving. Finally, in the interrogation
at trial, he no longer declared that he had heard the sound of the doorbell (obviously
incompatible with the entrance of the house of Knox who lived there and had the key).
I hadn't heard the bolded part of the story before. anyone else? Could be the reason he wasn't sure on MK's room, because he hadn't gone to her room to attack her. It started in the kitchen as she surprised him on the toilet and then she ran.
d) the omissions, the holes and contradictions in the various versions given by the defendant
during the various statements made during the proceedings. In his interrogation by the
judicial authorities of Koblenz on Nov. 21, 2007 he spoke of having flirted - without
indicating places and times - with Meredith on Oct. 31, 2007, of having made a date with her
for the next day, of not having performed any sexual approach in the girl's house, of having
gone to the bathroom from where he heard the doorbell ring. In his interrogation before the
magistrate [interrogatorio di garanzia] on Dec. 12, 2007, however, he stated that he met the
girl on Oct. 31 in the house of some Spanish students and did not meet her later in the
"Domus" pub, that the next day, shortly before going to the date with Meredith, he had met
his friends A and P, that later he confided to the latter that he had a date with a girl, and that
he had penetrated Meredith's sexual area with his fingers while [they were] in the kitchenliving
room of her flat. In the third interrogation, by the P.M. [public prosecutor] on March
26, 2008, he changed the place of his meeting with Kercher on Oct. 31 from the Spanish
students' house to the Domus pub, repeated that he had heard the sound of the doorbell while
he was in the toilet, and declared for the first time that he had recognised the voice of
Amanda Knox speaking with Meredith Kercher, [and] that after surprising the man with the
knife and [seeing] Kercher's body on the floor, he seemed to recognise her on the path that
leads to the entrance of the house, along which she was leaving. Finally, in the interrogation
at trial, he no longer declared that he had heard the sound of the doorbell (obviously
incompatible with the entrance of the house of Knox who lived there and had the key).
I hadn't heard the bolded part of the story before. anyone else? Could be the reason he wasn't sure on MK's room, because he hadn't gone to her room to attack her. It started in the kitchen as she surprised him on the toilet and then she ran.
Allusonz
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Google shuts down site run by Italian blogger critical of Amanda Knox prosecutor Mignini
"Mignini sued me for defamation," Sfarzo told the West Seattle Herald tonight by phone from Perugia. "The lawsuit went to the court in Florence, and the judge in Florence made a decree of seizure of the blog. Google did it and did not tell me why, but that it was a judge order. I learned by email.
"Mignini sued me," he continued. "The real reason I don't know. I wrote some sentences that he found (personally) insulting."
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/05/11/news/google-shuts-down-site-run-italian-blogger-critic
"Mignini sued me for defamation," Sfarzo told the West Seattle Herald tonight by phone from Perugia. "The lawsuit went to the court in Florence, and the judge in Florence made a decree of seizure of the blog. Google did it and did not tell me why, but that it was a judge order. I learned by email.
"Mignini sued me," he continued. "The real reason I don't know. I wrote some sentences that he found (personally) insulting."
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/05/11/news/google-shuts-down-site-run-italian-blogger-critic
Haha, 'irrational and frankly a bit paranoid' sure does sound exactly like the thinking pro AK/RS factions use regarding Italian LE, jurors and prosecutors. Are these 'excuses' used or not regarding EVERY piece of evidence that points to their guilt?
No excuses are needed for the prosecution side... the court found both guilty as charged. Excuses do come in handy for the other side... quite often if not always.
IMO the experts want to make extra-sure that the 2 accused are in prison after a complete and fair trial.
Several of the top forensic people in Italy have verified the testing done in the first instance... I'm sure you know this too. Duck and dodge just doesn't work regarding this FACT.
***One question for you and the AK support group... Would these experts be ok with leaving the 2 in prison for 40+ more days if the testing wasn't valid in addition to the 3+ years they have been in there? Wouldn't they want to expedite their release or help towards gaining it if the evidence/testing wasn't valid? Will this testing be the one/two pieces that gain their release anyway? I don't think so.
There will still be the mixed blood/dna traces in the bathroom and Filomena's room, the SEVERAL changing alibis, the accusation of Patrick, the luminal prints in the hallway, the staged break-in, the lies, and most telling of all- NO ALIBI for the time period in which Meredith was murdered. That is enough here, in Italy, and just about everywhere.
A couple of examples would be the Brad Cooper trial (almost completely circumstancial evidence found him guilty of murdering his wife. Are you going to 'fight' for his release?) and Casey Anthony (how many of you 'think' she is innocent? How much actual evidence is against her except for lies and circumstancial evidence? Are you going to 'fight' for her if she is found guilty? Was it just- Casey being Casey and her telling the best truths she can remember?)
Sometimes I wonder if you guys/gals even want to hear a different opinion than 'they are innocent' 'they were railroaded' 'it is an injustice' 'etc' ... or are just happy patting each other on the back and agreeing with each other's post regarding them being innocent. :waitasec:
Re Casey Anthony: It is wholly different (as is for example the Scott Peterson case) because there is no competing explanation for who else committed the murder. With Knox and Sollecito, we have strong evidence for Guede as a lone wolf killer. With Casey Anthony, there was no baby sitter. If there were, and she were missing, I might think she and not Casey had done it. Same with Scott Peterson telling Amber Frey he was a widower even before his wife "went missing". Common sense makes you think Casey A and SP are guilty. With Knox and Sollecito, my common sense says no. Casey Anthony and Scott Peterson needed their freedom (from a troublesome toddler and an expectant wife---both getting in the way of fun, sex, etc.)--Knox and Sollecito gained nothing by "erasing" Kercher. I could go on and on, but too tired.....
ohiogirl
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Given his track record with reporters, I am surprised that Mignini didn't do this a long time ago.
It is quite obvious what is going on here. I am just sad that this is OK with the Italian public.
I think the outcome will be that both of them are cleared eventually. jmo
(snipped for making point purposes)
I for one would be more than happy to find they were guilty. Defending them depresses me and gives me a headache. You will not catch me trying to show how Casey Anthony is actually being railroaded. Now why is that? She is an American girl, attractive in her own way. I just do not see how she is innocent or being railroaded. If Knox confessed today, I would be relieved and lose interest in her.....:razz:
OldSteve
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sniped for brevity:
Okay, I grant you it is fun getting back pats :great:
As one who pictures himself sitting in the jury room and hearing all the arguments mentioned (here on WS, and other sites) I do not feel AK is guilty. That doesn't not mean I find her innocent either, I simply have reasonable doubt.
Okay, I grant you it is fun getting back pats :great:
As one who pictures himself sitting in the jury room and hearing all the arguments mentioned (here on WS, and other sites) I do not feel AK is guilty. That doesn't not mean I find her innocent either, I simply have reasonable doubt.
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