Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #13

[Nova]

I don't know, but if you're asking me, you're asking the wrong person:



Around here, student teachers have proper business clothing so they can be successful in their practicum work.

I taught at a world-famous California university for 12 years. I wore jeans and sneakers. My big concession was that I never wore shorts or flip flops while lecturing.

As I said above, West Coast dress is very casual.

Once again, what difference does any of this make? I'm asking you because you keep bringing it up.

 

[SMK]

I think we can move past the dress. Both defendants have grown up a bit in any case, and look good now: Sober and subdued.

I am wondering if Frank is really concerned about his own slander case to the extent that he feels political moves are the only venue.

I would also be interested in the response to the 11 Lawmakers open letter.
This link has the full letter translated into English. Hope this was not posted already, but I am wilting in the heat: Here are the signers, too. (Same Link)

1. Rocco Girlanda, entrepreneur and media proprietor, born in 1966, from Gubbio (Perugia, Umbria)
2. Lucio Barani, medical doctor, born in 1953, from Aulla (Massa Carrara, Tuscany)
3. Gabriella Carlucci, Italian television presenter, born in 1959, from Alghero (Sassari, Sardinia)
4. Francesco De Luca, laywer, born in 1961, from Naples (Campania)
5. Carla Castellani, medical doctor, born in 1944, from Rieti (Latium)
6. Mariella Bocciardo, manager, born in 1949, from Genoa (Liguria)
7. Gian Carlo Abelli, politician, born in 1941, from Broni (Pavia, Lombardy)
8. Gianni Mancuso, veterinarian, born in 1957, from San Pellegrino (Bergamo, Lombardy)
9. Agostino Ghiglia, journalist, born in 1965, from Turin (Piedmont)
10. Tommaso Foti, manager, born in 1969, from Piacenza (Emilia Romagna)
11. Domenico Di Virgilio, medical doctor, born in 1939, from Montefino (Teramo, Abruzzo)


http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/05/27/news/amanda-knox-and-letter-written-11-lawmakers-her-b

 

[SMK]

Right. Just like someone else just twisted AK's underwear preference into her guilt.

It is sad, and if they have NO proof that he sexually assaulted her, he should not be held there. they gave RG the benefit on wielding the knife. Since RG's DNA is the only one found INSIDE MK, RS should not be held in that wing.

and what of the theory that it was a fight over money, and that the rape was only a staging by Knox and Sollecito to pin it on Rudy?

 

[wasnt_me]

It's possible that little Amelie simply doesn't know better and never learned how to dress or behave appropriately in formal or serious situations - which also doesn't bode well.

Oh, "Little Amelie." Sounds like somene disrepecting AK by making fun of her name and calling her outside of her name.

 

[wasnt_me]

What difference does it make????!!!!

First, don't know what kind of panties she bought and two, it's just an opportunity to degrade her. Seeing as RS was making a joke about it, I can assume she did buy conserative panties that weren't "sexy." Thus, I can see him laughing and saying, "Yeah, great for a hot night together."

Or maybe they were sexy and since neither one of them felt like having sex after a friend was murdered and they were exhausted by police questioning, he made a joke that they'd have a hot night because he knew, in truth, they were too damn tired and emotionally drained to even think about sex.

 

[wasnt_me]

Because I doubt there is any college girl with a boyfriend who would wear flowery grandmother underwear, unless she were mentally ill or had been sexually abused. And if they were innocent of murder, they may have been being romantic to distance themselves from the tragedy. Young people will do that, as when I was 18 after my father's funeral, I wanted to go shopping for designer jeans for the same reason..........

Where does it say she bought crotchless thongs or even grannie panties? we can't take what other posters say as the truth of what was done without documentation.

 

[ohiogirl]

I don't know, but if you're asking me, you're asking the wrong person:



Around here, student teachers have proper business clothing so they can be successful in their practicum work.

Otto, give it up
you are beating a dead horse
you have demonstrated multiple times that you think AK did this murder based upon her "false confession" that you refuse to aknowledge that ever happens, that she dresses inappropriately, and according to you, and the all of the forensic evidence justifies her conviction, even though they are looking into irregularities regarding the same
One might step aside at this point and await the conclusions

 

[ohiogirl]

leaving now

 

[wasnt_me]

And you're still wrong. I've worked with enough college-age interns at law firms to know that while they do have white shirts and trousers, they don't have full business attire. In grad schools in the liberal arts (where most people are training to teach), grad students--including student teachers--dress just like the undergrads.

You may be right that students going into some professions purchase suits around the time of graduation to wear for interviews, but AK was nowhere near graduation.

And again I ask: what difference does any of this make?

The problem here is stereotyping people and making a sweeping statement about what they "do" because they are certain people. These arguments are faulty because if even one person deviated from the stereotype, then the whole argument is false.

So I don't even know why debate it. we know that not every single student in college, at a university, or wherever they went to school, will go out and purchase a suit or just have one handy for interview, funerals, or murder trials. SOME might have, but certainly not a large enough percentage to say as fact that this is what college students do. For example, I can make a sweeping statement that all college students study hard. This is certainly not a true statement, but in the ideal, we want to believe they would.

I don't know why we carry this debate on, because we already know that what she wore to court has zero bearing on what was found or not found at the murder scene. I deeply agree that if anyone thinks her clothes contributed to the verdict, they SHOULD be upset about that, because that's not evidence. I repeat that the only clothes she ever wore that should matter are the ones she wore the night of the murder. We already know there wasn't a drop of blood on them.

Unless she walked into court in a bikini, stripper's outfit, or something similiar, there is no reason to even mention her court clothes.

 

[wasnt_me]

and what of the theory that it was a fight over money, and that the rape was only a staging by Knox and Sollecito to pin it on Rudy?

Yes, SMK.

This is the BEST reason of all that RS has no business in the sexual offender's wing of the prison. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[wasnt_me]

leaving now

Stay, ohio. Have a drink!

 

[OldSteve]

Because I doubt there is any college girl with a boyfriend who would wear flowery grandmother underwear, unless she were mentally ill or had been sexually abused. And if they were innocent of murder, they may have been being romantic to distance themselves from the tragedy. Young people will do that, as when I was 18 after my father's funeral, I wanted to go shopping for designer jeans for the same reason..........

A bit OT - remember the scene in the movie Bridget Jone's Diary where she is with her BF, and feels embarrassed because she is wearing her large granny style knickers - much to her surprise, her BF says he likes them...

That started a trend for time:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/enterta...so-hot-right-now/story-e6frf8o6-1226038081327

The key point is IMO, not what style underwear she purchased, but as the article stated, "We went to buy underwear because all of Amanda's things were sequestered [by the police]. Everything that was said about it is wrong. My comment was just a comment in jest. "
Showing how things can get twisted and turned against the unwary..

 

[Nova]

The problem here is stereotyping people and making a sweeping statement about what they "do" because they are certain people. These arguments are faulty because if even one person deviated from the stereotype, then the whole argument is false.

So I don't even know why debate it. we know that not every single student in college, at a university, or wherever they went to school, will go out and purchase a suit or just have one handy for interview, funerals, or murder trials. SOME might have, but certainly not a large enough percentage to say as fact that this is what college students do. For example, I can make a sweeping statement that all college students study hard. This is certainly not a true statement, but in the ideal, we want to believe they would.

I don't know why we carry this debate on, because we already know that what she wore to court has zero bearing on what was found or not found at the murder scene. I deeply agree that if anyone thinks her clothes contributed to the verdict, they SHOULD be upset about that, because that's not evidence. I repeat that the only clothes she ever wore that should matter are the ones she wore the night of the murder. We already know there wasn't a drop of blood on them.

Unless she walked into court in a bikini, stripper's outfit, or something similiar, there is no reason to even mention her court clothes.

You are right: I should just let it go. But I find the attacks on AK's clothes so mean-spirited I feel compelled to respond.

 

[wasnt_me]

I guess they'll get to the computer. I hope they do before the appeal ends.

RS's appeal docs say that they want the Macbook reevaluated because:

Like to point out, in fact, that the judgment placed at 21:10:32
the last operation performed by Raffaele Sollecito in the day of 1
November 2007.

Indeed, searching with Spotlight in version 10.4.10 was detected at least one file "Naruto ep 101.avi" which is not present in advice of the police post, but whose date of last opening is Thursday 1 November 2007 at 21:26 (ie in the period examined by the police Postal: 1st November 2007 18:00 - November 2, 2007 8:00 am). The date of their last (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 10:18:38) and last editing this file (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 13:28:09) corresponds to a period coinciding with the removal of the laptop from the home of Raffaele Dunning, during which activities are detected on that laptop
witnessed by the file system logs.

In light of the circumstances, it requires further investigation computer Raffaele Sollecito to ascertain interactions actually occurred on his computer, between 1 and 2 November 2007, under Article. 603, first paragraph, cpp

So I guess they used a different software to evaluate the macbook and found the Naruto file. I don't know if they think they'll find more files or they already found all they're going to find. It's confusing, because it seemed that if they'd uncovered more files, they would have said.

The appeal also mentions the keyboard log:

3. The log analysis is restricted to the og Fastweb, the other logs are ignored (Eg keyboard log indicating the start and end of activity computer).
4. Is not mentioned one activity of listening to music occurred between the hours of 5:41 and 6:38.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HcqNZWrCPMyMfOBfHMuVpOmcFrteW82Xh5Fw-gmlWs/edit?hl=en_US


They are also asking for the court to find out and relay definitively why the other 3 computers mysteriously and irretrievably crashed.

 

[otto]

Otto, give it up
you are beating a dead horse
you have demonstrated multiple times that you think AK did this murder based upon her "false confession" that you refuse to aknowledge that ever happens, that she dresses inappropriately, and according to you, and the all of the forensic evidence justifies her conviction, even though they are looking into irregularities regarding the same
One might step aside at this point and await the conclusions

That's not true. I have not said that I believe that Raffaele, Amanda and Rudy are guilty because Amanda accused (I don't think she confessed) an innocent man of murder. I have not refused to acknowledge that false confessions occur, but have requested any example where a false confession occurred after two hours of questioning a witness (only one of which where they could communicate in the same language). It simply does not happen. I, and many others, agree that Amanda did not dress appropriately in court.

"They saw a casually-dressed young college who didn't appear to be taking the court seriously. Perhaps a more demure young woman in boxy clothes off the rack might have been the smarter way to impress the jury."
Ref: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28057560/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/trial-amanda-knox/

It is not according to me that the evidence justified her conviction, it was according to the jury that the evidence justified her conviction. There is an ongoing appeal, no different than any other appeal (similar to that of Brad Cooper's ongoing appeal). The appeal does not imply an incorrect verdict - in this case it is an automatic part of the legal process. The prosecution has also elected to appeal.

I am not inclined to view verdicts as conspiracies and could just as easily request that all those who believe the verdict was a result of a conspiracy, incompetence and corruption step aside and await conclusions - but I would never do that.

I think it might be worth noting that the victim, Meredith Kercher, is where I place my support. The victim's family: Meredith's father, mother, sister and brothers, should not be expected to step aside while people cheer on the murderers. They completely agree with the guilty verdicts, as do I, because after an 11 month trial the jury concluded that the three culprits were guilty.

 

[SMK]

That's not true. I have not said that I believe that Raffaele, Amanda and Rudy are guilty because Amanda accused (I don't think she confessed) an innocent man of murder. I have not refused to acknowledge that false confessions occur, but have requested any example where a false confession occurred after two hours of questioning a witness (only one of which where they could communicate in the same language). It simply does not happen. I, and many others, agree that Amanda did not dress appropriately in court.

"They saw a casually-dressed young college who didn't appear to be taking the court seriously. Perhaps a more demure young woman in boxy clothes off the rack might have been the smarter way to impress the jury."
Ref: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28057560/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/trial-amanda-knox/

It is not according to me that the evidence justified her conviction, it was according to the jury that the evidence justified her conviction. There is an ongoing appeal, no different than any other appeal (similar to that of Brad Cooper's ongoing appeal). The appeal does not imply an incorrect verdict - in this case it is an automatic part of the legal process. The prosecution has also elected to appeal.

I am not inclined to view verdicts as conspiracies and could just as easily request that all those who believe the verdict was a result of a conspiracy, incompetence and corruption step aside and await conclusions - but I would never do that.

I think it might be worth noting that the victim, Meredith Kercher, is where I place my support. The victim's family: Meredith's father, mother, sister and brothers, should not be expected to step aside while people cheer on the murderers. They completely agree with the guilty verdicts, as do I, because after an 11 month trial the jury concluded that the three culprits were guilty.

Right, but it is in an appeal process now (as Mignini's conviction is also currently on appeal) and those who support Knox and Sollecito of course believe that they were not involved in the murder. As far as the clothes: They both look better now, and it is over and done with.

 

[Nova]

...I have not refused to acknowledge that false confessions occur, but have requested any example where a false confession occurred after two hours of questioning a witness.... It simply does not happen....

http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2006/03/coerced_confessions_is_videota.php

College student Bradley Page ... asked the officers if it was possible for him to forget these details, to "blank it out." They told him such occurrences were common, and it might help to assuage his guilt if he told them how he might have killed his girlfriend. He obliged them, giving a hypothetical description of how he would have committed the crime. Two hours later, the police told him that they considered his statement to be a confession.

BBM: Sound familiar? It isn't clear whether 2 hours was the total interrogation or just the time from when police lied to Page (telling him his fingerprints were on the murder weapon) until the police decided Page had "confessed." But it's clear the interrogation was relatively brief.

 

[Allusonz]

I guess they'll get to the computer. I hope they do before the appeal ends.

RS's appeal docs say that they want the Macbook reevaluated because:

Like to point out, in fact, that the judgment placed at 21:10:32
the last operation performed by Raffaele Sollecito in the day of 1
November 2007.

Indeed, searching with Spotlight in version 10.4.10 was detected at least one file "Naruto ep 101.avi" which is not present in advice of the police post, but whose date of last opening is Thursday 1 November 2007 at 21:26 (ie in the period examined by the police Postal: 1st November 2007 18:00 - November 2, 2007 8:00 am). The date of their last (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 10:18:38) and last editing this file (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 13:28:09) corresponds to a period coinciding with the removal of the laptop from the home of Raffaele Dunning, during which activities are detected on that laptop
witnessed by the file system logs.

In light of the circumstances, it requires further investigation computer Raffaele Sollecito to ascertain interactions actually occurred on his computer, between 1 and 2 November 2007, under Article. 603, first paragraph, cpp

So I guess they used a different software to evaluate the macbook and found the Naruto file. I don't know if they think they'll find more files or they already found all they're going to find. It's confusing, because it seemed that if they'd uncovered more files, they would have said.

The appeal also mentions the keyboard log:

3. The log analysis is restricted to the og Fastweb, the other logs are ignored (Eg keyboard log indicating the start and end of activity computer).
4. Is not mentioned one activity of listening to music occurred between the hours of 5:41 and 6:38.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HcqNZWrCPMyMfOBfHMuVpOmcFrteW82Xh5Fw-gmlWs/edit?hl=en_US


They are also asking for the court to find out and relay definitively why the other 3 computers mysteriously and irretrievably crashed.

One of the reasons that particular file is so critical is that the TOD has a very small window contrary to what the prosecution had tried to state. Based on the autopy and the fact that the stomach contents had not passed into the duodenum the TOD was earlier rather that later. I believe that is why there is more emphasis on the computer activity around the 9:00 - 9:30pm time frame

 

[SMK]

This was on the top of Google News on Ground Report, by Mark Waterbury with his attorney, Bremner:

Note: As this article is going to press, two important developments in the appeal of Amanda Knox’s wrongful conviction in Perugia, Italy, have just taken place. A group of Italian legislators led by Rocco Girlanda has filed a petition with the President of Italy and the Italian justice ministry requesting an investigation of the conduct of the Perugian prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini and others in Amanda’s trial. This important request for an investigation was read out loud before the Italian parliament.

The second development involves a letter to the President of the United States and copied to all members of congress that also requests an investigation, this time of the failure of the U.S. consular officials to fulfill their obligations to safeguard the rights of Amanda Knox under Italian law. We are co-signers of that letter, along with Michael Heavey and Thomas Wright. Details regarding these letters are being released through other outlets. The following article is intended to provide additional information in a less formal format.http://www.groundreport.com/World/Amanda-Knox-Traveler-s-Advisory/2939271

 

[Allusonz]

You are right: I should just let it go. But I find the attacks on AK's clothes so mean-spirited I feel compelled to respond.

I must agree here. AK's father purchased that t-shirt as he knew she liked that particular band and it is MO that she wore it to court to show her thanks to her father not to disrespect the court. As for the underwear this was not purchased in an ADULT store but in a REGULAR store thus if this supposed lingerie was so sexual in nature why would this store be selling it. That means that many Italians were purchasing the same items yet that is not considered to be sexual.