Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[Nova]

So is 'your' opinion now that there was a staged break-in? :waitasec:

Nice try, but there's no inconsistency in the use of the conditional here.

Hendry's report remains the only expert and detailed examination of the room that I've read. He says the evidence most likely shows a legitimate break-in.

But if Hendry is wrong, AK isn't the only one who might benefit from a staging. RG was also known to the occupants of the cottage, knew his DNA would most likely be found, and may have felt a need to leave some indication of an intruder.

 

[SMK]

Do you happen to know whether the hand of Noura's that was cut was her dominant hand or not? Because I can't remember a case where a knife wielder was cut on the back of his or her hand; usually the knife slips and slices his or her fingers (as in the case of RG). But if the cut wasn't on her dominant hand, it's easier for me to understand that she may have accidentally stabbed herself while stabbing her mother 50 times.

(In any event, of course, there's the question of why Noura was out buying bandages at 4 a.m. while her mother lay dead in a blood-covered bedroom at home.)

I had thought it was her non-dominant hand. Must recheck 48 Hours Mystery, "My Mother's Murder"...Yes, it is her left hand. I am assuming she is right handed as they did not say otherwise. Yes, I agree: The cut must have been bad for her to go at 5 am to buy hydrogen peroxide, liquid bandages, etc.


ETA: Had Knox like Noura had a significant wound which had to be treated with drug store supplies and which made her wear long sleeves in near 90 degree weather, I would be VERY suspicious of her.

 

[Nova]

I had thought it was her non-dominant hand. Must recheck 48 Hours Mystery, "My Mother's Murder"...Yes, it is her left hand. I am assuming she is right handed as they did not say otherwise. Yes, I agree: The cut must have been bad for her to go at 5 am to buy hydrogen peroxide, liquid bandages, etc.


ETA: Had Knox like Noura had a significant wound which had to be treated with drug store supplies and which made her wear long sleeves in near 90 degree weather, I would be VERY suspicious of her.

So would I. Same with RK.

But the only one with a cut is RG.

 

[SMK]

So would I. Same with RK.

But the only one with a cut is RG.

Very telling. And they tried to make something of a mark on Amanda's neck, but of course had it been something, they would have paraded it all over media and trial. Yet Mignini STILL mentions on CNN....

 

[Nova]

Very telling. And they tried to make something of a mark on Amanda's neck, but of course had it been something, they would have paraded it all over media and trial. Yet Mignini STILL mentions on CNN....

As they say, "Same old, same old." Instead of following the evidence, Mignini & Co. simply made a list of things they could argue were inculpatory to AK and RS.

And he's still reciting from the same list.

 

[SMK]

OK, June 18 is Mario's testimony: I had forgotten about this:

The appeal process to Sollecito and Knox, sentenced at first instance to 25 and 16 years in prison even though both claim to be innocent, will resume June 18 with the deposition of Mario Alessi.http://www.umbria24.it/«nessuna-tra...«oggi»-«mai-rilasciate-interviste»/44712.html

Wonder if this will just open up another :worms:
and why this silly headline was ever printed by CBS:
Amanda Knox cleared by Mario Alessi confession - CBS News
According to CBS Online via YouTube, Amanda Knox, who's currently serving time in an Italian prison for the alleged murder of Meredith Kercher, did not kill Meredith Kercher.

Amanda Knox, the former University of Washington student and her boyfriend at the time, Raffaele Sollecito were said to have worked with Rudy Hermann Guede to kill Meredith Kercher in a sex-play gone wrong. But this video taped confession by Guede's prison-mate Mario Alessi clears Amanda Knox of any wrong-doing:

[video=youtube;OR8iafbEYZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR8iafbEYZo&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[michellesings]

I go round in circles on it. I believe it MAY have been staged, but also may have not. Rudy himself claims he spoke with Kercher a couple days before she died at a club, and went to wait for her on the night of Nov.1 --I do think the defense ought to have asserted Guede staged it to cover sex turned rape/murder, YES, absolutely.

It's been proven that there was no staging. The fact that the defense did NOT use your suggestion of Rudy staging it cannot be correct in that he was a thief with a motive...$$$, the rent was due. And he had no job. I could be wrong about his motive, but that's a pretty good motive. Does anyone know of any sexual crimes in his past. That would be good to look into. They are not going to lie to win this case. Anyone wanting to claim, "but Amanda lied", that's already been well established that it was a coerced confession that wasn't a real confession regardless! They don't need to lie to win this case, and I don't believe for a second that they aren't going to win this case. All they (and myself and many others included;and the judge) want only is the truth. The truth is what will exonerate her. She would rather stay in jail than a lie be told just so she could get out of prison. I've learned this much about her true person now. Though I didn't know her before this case I do now. I know she only wants truth and is even grateful to the judge (and I don't think I would have this strength) for EXTENDING her jail time while they investigate this horrible botch job, this horrible framing an innocent young woman so they can watch their backs (Giuliano) at ALL costs. Rudy burglarized their place in the exact same method that he had done in the past. With the authorities his would be considered his "calling card". Doesn't that fact that you know this (unless you didn't already know this) make you consider the reality that Rudy's used his past methods. He was known by all the locals as a thief and as someone always unsuccessfully trying to pick up girls. Absolutely he was burglarizing. It is also clear that he was about to meet up with unexpectedly one very very tough young lady. He ended up KILLING her, whether of fear of being caught or for some other motive, not at all intending to, unless he's done this before. If so, I sure the heck don't know about it. Regardless, he also pleasure sexually assaulted her, a dying girl, or dead girl. It's really obvious, the simpleness of things. And yet, it's been made into all of "this".

 

[SMK]

It's been proven that there was no staging. The fact that the defense did NOT use your suggestion of Rudy staging it cannot be correct in that he was a thief with a motive...$$$, the rent was due. And he had no job. I could be wrong about his motive, but that's a pretty good motive. Does anyone know of any sexual crimes in his past. That would be good to look into. They are not going to lie to win this case. Anyone wanting to claim, "but Amanda lied", that's already been well established that it was a coerced confession that wasn't a real confession regardless! They don't need to lie to win this case, and I don't believe for a second that they aren't going to win this case. All they (and myself and many others included;and the judge) want only is the truth. The truth is what will exonerate her. She would rather stay in jail than a lie be told just so she could get out of prison. I've learned this much about her true person now. Though I didn't know her before this case I do now. I know she only wants truth and is even grateful to the judge (and I don't think I would have this strength) for EXTENDING her jail time while they investigate this horrible botch job, this horrible framing an innocent young woman so they can watch their backs (Giuliano) at ALL costs. Rudy burglarized their place in the exact same method that he had done in the past. With the authorities his would be considered his "calling card". Doesn't that fact that you know this (unless you didn't already know this) make you consider the reality that Rudy's used his past methods. He was known by all the locals as a thief and as someone always unsuccessfully trying to pick up girls. Absolutely he was burglarizing. It is also clear that he was about to meet up with unexpectedly one very very tough young lady. He ended up KILLING her, whether of fear of being caught or for some other motive, not at all intending to, unless he's done this before. If so, I sure the heck don't know about it. Regardless, he also pleasure sexually assaulted her, a dying girl, or dead girl. It's really obvious, the simpleness of things. And yet, it's been made into all of "this".

Many good points made here. Guede was never formally charged with a sexual crime, but as you basically have said - and I have read numerous places - people who knew him attest to his aggressive style with women, and his seeming unable to tell when they were trying politely to turn him away. I know for a fact that a burglary can progress spontaneously to a violent rape, when surprised by a female being home, as this happened in my family in 1983. I hope you are correct about winning the case. I have many fears about this. I have been "burned" in the past, thinking all will be well, and then.....ugh...

 

[Nova]

Michelle makes a good point that it's fine for internet posters to say "the break-in was real, but if it wasn't, then RG staged it." But while defense attorneys do try that approach, it risks alienating the jury and inviting jurors to ignore the defense altogether.

 

[wasnt_me]

The problem is, Noura was already convicted, so I am not sure. There is no ongoing appeal as with Knox. http://thenewspk1.blogspot.com/2010/04/noura-jackson-updates.html

yeah, but there is no place on here to just discuss old cases, because we want to?

 

[wasnt_me]

Another thought I have always had about the staged break-in, and may have mentioned this some months ago:
Even if the break-in were definitely staged, it still by no means points necessarily to Knox and Sollecito:
1. Guede had expressed an interest in Kercher
2. Guede knew no one would be home other than Kercher (talk at Le Chic)
3. Guede may have tried for a romantic evening with Kercher, was surprised by a violent rebuff, and it escalated to an unplanned rape/homicide.
4. Guede knows he has left his DNA on Kercher, so he can only say that they had consensual sex and then she was killed by another.
5. He stages the break-in to point to a later intruder.
6. He flees to Germany, leaving AK and RS to discover the crime scene. They get blamed for the staging.
7. In fact, Rudy did maintain all of this.

Yeah, we theorized on that a while back, but others kept saying RG wouldn't stage a break-in, even though we gave all the reasons listed above that he would. I'm personally open to the possibility that he did because it is kind of really dumb of him to break into the place of people he knows--or was it, seeing as someone else got blamed for it, and it was the person who lived there, no less.

Well, I don't think it's dumb, if the people didn't know your histroy of break-ins. You wouldn't be suspected in that case.

And I am still puzzled by the wet flipflops downstairs.

 

[wasnt_me]

I am reserving judgment with regards to Mignini's corruption or lack thereof until such time as his trial has gone through its appeals process (remember, just like AK & RS, he is not considered convicted until then, and has a good chance of having the original decision tossed out, due to the lousy first trials and robust appeals people get in Italy).

That is true. It's just hard to do after reviewing how he conducted this particular trial of AK and RS.

 

[Allusonz]

I think that if people fall into the error of tunnel vision (exclude everything that points to guilt in order to believe innocence), it becomes possible to believe that it's quite normal to doubt a verdict, to doubt the jury, to believe that everyone associated with the case is corrupt and that some people like to see innocent people in jail. I have read all of the above on this thread. I thought it would be refreshing to see how this same tunnel vision is perceived in the context of different cases that are discussed on this forum. The opinion I posted may not be expressed on this thread in relation to this case, but it is an opinion that is held by many.

Let's talk tunnel vision and sanity. MY BOXING GLOVES ARE ON BE FOREWARNED!! They are also rubber ones

<modsnip> publicly attack not only AK but her family of which I remind you are not CONVICTED MURDERERS and includes her sisters none of whom you know. Let me also state for the record that some of her sisters are MINORS of which NO one has the right to spread malicious, unfounded allegations which cannot be backed up without citations!!<modsnip>

<modsnip>

You have stated that AK HAS SEDUCED THE PRISON PRIEST of which I still await a citation. Trust me I am not holding my breath as I know one does not exist.

You have stated that AK has SEDUCED THE PRISON OFFICIALS of which I still await a citation of which again I am not holding my breath as there is not one.

AK's family has been accused of doing so many things I am trying to figure out how in the course of a 24 hour day as well as doing so much of this long distance how it would be even possible. They have been accused of leaking diaries, pictures, and a zillion other things some of which were released in the very early days of the investigation. Let it be noted that AK was not allowed to even see a lawyer let alone her family till her first hearing yet are repeatedly accused of leaking photos and other items before they had even seen AK. The ONLY ones that had access to some of this material was ILE!!! Let me repeat that. Only ILE had access to the very early items released. Her father was not even in Italy at the time

Let me remind everyone that ILE was doing press conferences in which information was being given to the press much of which has turned out to be FALSE. AK's family had no contact with either RG or RS in which to LEAK diaries. The continued PR CAMPAIGN of which you speak constantly of AK's remains a FIGMENT OF SOME PEOPLES IMMAGINATION.

The repeated ridiculing of credentials/character/involvement/opinions/SANITY not only of individuals on this thread but also individuals, EXPERTS, and those which hold contrary opinions undermines arguments and the RESPECT of the poster. The list is long and varied and includes but is not limited to the following:

Ron Hendry
Dr. Greg Hampikian
Special Agent Steve Moore
Joel Simon
CPJ
Marriott
Candace Dempsey
Judge Heavey
Anne Bremner
Bruce Fischer
Frank Szfarzo
Doug Preston
Paul Ciolino

Not only have the above been accused of being involved in a PR CAMPAIGN but news organizations have also been accused which include but are not limited to the following:

The Telegraph
NBC
CBS
CNN
ABC
Reuters
Seatlemet
Tinesonline

To my knowledge there has only been a couple of individuals that have tried to use the mantra of American/Italian or tried to use the race card and I can name whom it has not been (I won't for fear I will miss a name) but we know whom we are/are not.

<modsnip> the issues of Stephanoni's methodology with respect to both DNA and LCN DNA. The DNA collection and contamination in this case has been well documented and was even streamed live at one point. Crap she used methods never before scientifically documented. <modsnip>

To then accuse some of us of twisting words already twisted or of having tunnel vision reinforces that I am very comfortable with my reflection. I am certain some others should not be and should take a LONG look in the mirror. All I can do is express my disappointment.

I know I have not covered everything I wanted to or as in depth as I wished but the only one that is truly insane here is me. I relish my private asylum in the Caribbean, designer straight jackets, rubber straw hats, and rubber wine bottles and straws <modsnip>.

 

[Allusonz]

Maybe I missed it but did the prosecution even present any experts stating that it was a staged break in? For some reason I do not recall any testimony presented by the prosecution in this respect

 

[Allusonz]

Do you happen to know whether the hand of Noura's that was cut was her dominant hand or not? Because I can't remember a case where a knife wielder was cut on the back of his or her hand; usually the knife slips and slices his or her fingers (as in the case of RG). But if the cut wasn't on her dominant hand, it's easier for me to understand that she may have accidentally stabbed herself while stabbing her mother 50 times.

(In any event, of course, there's the question of why Noura was out buying bandages at 4 a.m. while her mother lay dead in a blood-covered bedroom at home.)

There is also something else that has always stood out like a sore thumb to me and that is that it appears that the break in on the door window was by using a tool for cutting windows. It is in a perfectly circular dimension

 

[Allusonz]

While you're making a list, here's a doozy:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-03-30-drug-program_x.htm



Over 40 people in Tula, TX wrongly convicted on the perjured testimony of one drug enforcement officer.

What I truly don't understand is although the US is often cited many forget that this problem is worldwide and I think that it must be noted that it is not different whether in the US or Europe

 

[Allusonz]

Dude, I'd go testify to that if the big, bad press machine would pay my ticket to italy.

I will join you :innocent:

 

[Allusonz]

Haven't you heard? Amanda Knox was in another room, calling out instructions in a language she didn't speak.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

sorry just imagining this made me

 

[Salem]

Enough you guys. Enough.

This case has been allowed to move pretty freely - but no where did anyone say the TOS was off the table.

I am not going to go back through and get all the offending posts - I don't have time for that. But, posts that don't adhere to the TOS from this point forward will be removed. I'm not gonna modsnip - I'm just gonna take them out. I am not going to send pms to tell you your post was removed. If it is gone, it's because it violated the TOS.

The basic rules are: Attack the post, not the poster. Don't sleuth your fellow posters. Don't call fellow posters out and don't tell them they are ignorant.

The remaining rules can be found here: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Of particular interest to many of the posters on this thread, should be the thread entitled "dealing with your fellow posters."

If you have any questions - let the mods know.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[wasnt_me]

I had thought it was her non-dominant hand. Must recheck 48 Hours Mystery, "My Mother's Murder"...Yes, it is her left hand. I am assuming she is right handed as they did not say otherwise. Yes, I agree: The cut must have been bad for her to go at 5 am to buy hydrogen peroxide, liquid bandages, etc.


ETA: Had Knox like Noura had a significant wound which had to be treated with drug store supplies and which made her wear long sleeves in near 90 degree weather, I would be VERY suspicious of her.

Yeah, but the cut was on the back of NJ's hand. I think between her wrist and thumb. I can only imagine her getting that by holding her mom with her left hand, attempting a stab, but her mom struggles, she misses, and the knife slices her left hand in that spot.