Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Nova]

1. I always felt that involving the 5 inmates was stupid, stupid, stupid, because it negated Hendry's marvelously simple genius of the Guede-Lone-Wolf scenario, and opened the door to "more than one killer"
2. Why do you believe that lying, raping, Meredith-violating Guede????

The Motivation Report rejects the lone-wolf theory and the break-in so emphatically, I'm sure defense attorneys felt they had to put on witnesses who claimed to have heard RG put himself at the scene with anyone but AK and RS.

How could they risk not doing so?

As for Hendry, Umbrian courts seem to have an aversion to non-Italian expert testimony, so I'm sure the defense had no hope of getting Hendry into evidence.

 

[mdana]

I don't know maybe this should be a poll, but what is your biggest concern if you are pro conviction or pro acquital? What is the strongest item in support of your belief?

Concern-Bra Clasp

Positive Spin-I think it may have been cross-contaiminated and the late arrival leaves open the possibility it was planted.

Negative Spin-No reason to think it should have RS DNA if not planted or tainted. Major blow to RS wasn't there theory. If it was planted, why not plant more evidence just to ensure conviction.

Strongest-Lack of concern of being arrested

Positive Spin-AK did not leave the country and RS didn't lawyer up
Negative Spin-AK was a criminal mastermind and RS thought he could manipulate or buy his way out of any suspicion.

Strongest-Lack of more DNA at crime scene that was supposedly a bloody struggle

Positive Spin-AK does not have any DNA in MK's bedroom and RS only has bra clasp and knife which are suspect. While RG left much more evidence at the scene.
Negative Spin-Crime scenes even ones with violent bloody struggles don't always leave copious amounts of a criminal or criminals presence.

 

[Nova]

Strongest: instant conspiracy of three

Negative:

1. RS and AK knew each other for only 7 days; RS and RG had never met.

2. AK was not fluent in Italian; neither RS nor RG were fluent in English--no common language in which to conspire.

3. Nothing in prior history of RS and especially AK to suggest they would participate in such a conspiracy.

4. Computer records put RS and AK at home at least until 9:10, probably until 9:48. MK was most likely dead by 10pm. There was simply no time to form the conspiracy and agree on a course of action.

5. Admittedly more speculative: AK and MK were friends; in fact, they had known each other longer than AK knew either man accused. Moreover, I think almost any woman's "natural" empathy would lie with a fellow female being sexual assaulted. There is nothing in AK's background to suggest she harbored enough hatred against females to overcome natural empathy.

6. Except for some mild wavering by RS and until RG accused AK and RS very late in the day and after much consultation with ILE, none of the three turned on the others. AK was pressured into implicating PL, when if she had actually been with RG, she would have known he was a better candidate to accuse.

 

[mdana]

1. I always felt that involving the 5 inmates was stupid, stupid, stupid, because it negated Hendry's marvelously simple genius of the Guede-Lone-Wolf scenario, and opened the door to "more than one killer"
2. Why do you believe that lying, raping, Meredith-violating Guede????

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Italian Supreme Court closed the one perpetrator theory. Could this jury have disregarded the Supreme Court's decision?

Again, this angle reminds me of other miscarriages like the Central Park wilding case and Norfolk Four. All the innocent parties (9 in totall if I remember correctly) were boxed in by the initial mistake that the victim was attacked by multiple attackers. For years every new appeal was struck down, because the new courts adhered to that theory even though the real perp. confessed and forensic evidence (semen DNA) put the person at the scene of the crime. All 9 of those "criminals" signed coerced false confessions when none of the confession adhered to the facts of the crime scene and they had no dna at the crime scene.

 

[mdana]

*Hey, AK told them Patrick had murdered Meredith.

*Anyone thinking the bathroom pic was in blood is 'not well' IMO.

*One pair of sexy bloomers, and kissing in the store just doesn't look good any way.

*Others were rumors or not relevant... not the fault of ILE. Non-sourced or 'anonymous persons in ILE' are just not valid sources IMO.

***Jurors and included Judges are charged with making their decisions based upon the evidence... not media reports. Saying they were unable to is what is misleading, they are perfectly competant to IMO.

Go over to True Justice for MK or Statement Analysis, because most posters ridiculed AK for taking a shower in such a bloody mess. They were convinced only a murderer would shower in such a butcher shop of horrors.

Again I did not not state they were unable, just that it impacted their judgement. We disagree but don't rewrite my words to something I did not write.

 

[mdana]

1. You claim not to have read Hendry.

2. The defense asked that people claiming to have relevant evidence be heard. That does not, in an of itself, make a "theory."

3. A criminal trial is not a battle of one theory v. another anyway.

4. Guede's claims of a second party were always obviously self-serving and not to be taken at face value.

5. The defense was interested in reputed remarks by RG that AK and RS were not involved, not whether RG's claims were true in toto.

6. RG said what ILE wanted him to say. I'm shocked!

Claude Raines would have been schocked all over, and he would have gotten 20k francs. You know adjusting for inflation, although since they are no longer in use perhaps Euros?

 

[SMK]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Italian Supreme Court closed the one perpetrator theory. Could this jury have disregarded the Supreme Court's decision?

Again, this angle reminds me of other miscarriages like the Central Park wilding case and Norfolk Four. All the innocent parties (9 in totall if I remember correctly) were boxed in by the initial mistake that the victim was attacked by multiple attackers. For years every new appeal was struck down, because the new courts adhered to that theory even though the real perp. confessed and forensic evidence (semen DNA) put the person at the scene of the crime. All 9 of those "criminals" signed coerced false confessions when none of the confession adhered to the facts of the crime scene and they had no dna at the crime scene.

Oh, I had read somewhere that they could discount that ruling, as it had to do with Guede's appeal only. Guess I was wrong. :blushing::blushing:

 

[mdana]

Strongest: instant conspiracy of three

Negative:

1. RS and AK knew each other for only 7 days; RS and RG had never met.

2. AK was not fluent in Italian; neither RS nor RG were fluent in English--no common language in which to conspire.

3. Nothing in prior history of RS and especially AK to suggest they would participate in such a conspiracy.

4. Computer records put RS and AK at home at least until 9:10, probably until 9:48. MK was most likely dead by 10pm. There was simply no time to form the conspiracy and agree on a course of action.

5. Admittedly more speculative: AK and MK were friends; in fact, they had known each other longer than AK knew either man accused. Moreover, I think almost any woman's "natural" empathy would lie with a fellow female being sexual assaulted. There is nothing in AK's background to suggest she harbored enough hatred against females to overcome natural empathy.

6. Except for some mild wavering by RS and until RG accused AK and RS very late in the day and after much consultation with ILE, none of the three turned on the others. AK was pressured into implicating PL, when if she had actually been with RG, she would have known he was a better candidate to accuse.

I was going to go with that, but I didn't know if it was too circumstantial or too open to interpretation. It just boggles the mind that three people with such limited ways of communicating fluently and two of them never having met before to pull off such crime that left so little DNA of the two of them.

I wouldn't even ask for beer if I were RG in that situation.

 

[mdana]

Oh, I had read somewhere that they could discount that ruling, as it had to do with Guede's appeal only. Guess I was wrong. :blushing::blushing:

You could be right, I just read the opposite. If I remember correctly, what I read stated the defense was closed off from the RG acting alone defense.

 

[otto]

Go over to True Justice for MK or Statement Analysis, because most posters ridiculed AK for taking a shower in such a bloody mess. They were convinced only a murderer would shower in such a butcher shop of horrors.

Again I did not not state they were unable, just that it impacted their judgement. We disagree but don't rewrite my words to something I did not write.

I understand that you have some problem with the victim support website for Meredith Kercher, but it is untrue that people on that particular website believe the powder used to identify evidence in the bathroom was blood. Personally, I don't think this is the correct place to complain about that particular victim support website.

 

[SMK]

I understand that you have some problem with the victim support website for Meredith Kercher, but it is untrue that people on that particular website believe the powder used to identify evidence in the bathroom was blood. Personally, I don't think this is the correct place to complain about that particular victim support website.

I think it is appropriate, as no one has any problem complaining about the men who head Injustice in Perugia forum. It is fitting and proper to want justice for the victim, but not seemly nor dignified to become overly passionate in hating those whom one believes are guilty. In any case, a picture of Meredith's lovely face would honor her; scores of pics of her face caught in every expression is scary. I know it put me off, and has others as well. In any case, if we cannot complain about these people, why is there free pass to say things about Mr. Fisher?

 

[Allusonz]

But I surely thought that would open the gate to question him about what happened.

And what happened to the skype call and his friend who participated in the skype call? His statement contridicts what he said in that. The statement he read in court. So I thought surely, surely, surely, he'd be questioned about that. Was he? I don't even know.

I believe if you actually look at the events which happened there were some interesting ones. RG did answer with respect to the allegations made by the other inmates

What I found to be even more interesting was that the current prosecutor did not read the statement of 2010 but a consulting prosecutor which according to law is not allowed to be involved in the appeal process which he circumvented read the statement. Thus Mignini read RG's statement of which RG stated he did not understand

This is a statement never disclosed to the defense

Why did the prosecutor supposedly in charge of this appeal not read it out loud? It is like he is trying to distance himself from these proceedings

 

[Allusonz]

I think it is appropriate, as no one has any problem complaining about the men who head Injustice in Perugia forum. It is fitting and proper to want justice for the victim, but not seemly nor dignified to become overly passionate in hating those whom one believes are guilty. In any case, a picture of Meredith's lovely face would honor her; scores of pics of her face caught in every expression is scary. I know it put me off, and has others as well. In any case, if we cannot complain about these people, why is there free pass to say things about Mr. Fisher?

Not only what you have stated above SMK but I am truly concerned at how this has gone beyond the appeal itself to where individuals are writing employers, threatening families, and we are not talking one or two individuals here. Individuals speaking out on AK's behalf are losing jobs because of the actions of some. This is truly going beyond believing in ones guilt or innocence

 

[SMK]

Not only what you have stated above SMK but I am truly concerned at how this has gone beyond the appeal itself to where individuals are writing employers, threatening families, and we are not talking one or two individuals here. Individuals speaking out on AK's behalf are losing jobs because of the actions of some. This is truly going beyond believing in ones guilt or innocence

I agree, it has gone way beyond concern for "justice" for anyone, and quite frankly, some of the banter I have seen seems pathological. Cannot grasp the motivation of it all.

 

[Allusonz]

I understand that you have some problem with the victim support website for Meredith Kercher, but it is untrue that people on that particular website believe the powder used to identify evidence in the bathroom was blood. Personally, I don't think this is the correct place to complain about that particular victim support website.

But it is ok to belittle other sites such as IIP? Sorry you are wrong

 

[Allusonz]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Italian Supreme Court closed the one perpetrator theory. Could this jury have disregarded the Supreme Court's decision?

Again, this angle reminds me of other miscarriages like the Central Park wilding case and Norfolk Four. All the innocent parties (9 in totall if I remember correctly) were boxed in by the initial mistake that the victim was attacked by multiple attackers. For years every new appeal was struck down, because the new courts adhered to that theory even though the real perp. confessed and forensic evidence (semen DNA) put the person at the scene of the crime. All 9 of those "criminals" signed coerced false confessions when none of the confession adhered to the facts of the crime scene and they had no dna at the crime scene.

Some confuse a coerced statement with lying

 

[Allusonz]

I don't know maybe this should be a poll, but what is your biggest concern if you are pro conviction or pro acquital? What is the strongest item in support of your belief?

Concern-Bra Clasp

Positive Spin-I think it may have been cross-contaiminated and the late arrival leaves open the possibility it was planted.

Negative Spin-No reason to think it should have RS DNA if not planted or tainted. Major blow to RS wasn't there theory. If it was planted, why not plant more evidence just to ensure conviction.

Strongest-Lack of concern of being arrested

Positive Spin-AK did not leave the country and RS didn't lawyer up
Negative Spin-AK was a criminal mastermind and RS thought he could manipulate or buy his way out of any suspicion.

Strongest-Lack of more DNA at crime scene that was supposedly a bloody struggle

Positive Spin-AK does not have any DNA in MK's bedroom and RS only has bra clasp and knife which are suspect. While RG left much more evidence at the scene.
Negative Spin-Crime scenes even ones with violent bloody struggles don't always leave copious amounts of a criminal or criminals presence.

When an error has been introduced with respect to the chain of custody of an item it must be invalidated. No one can account for that bra clasp for far to long and ILE could not even find it when they arrived to get it. It was finally found under a rug.

 

[Allusonz]

The Motivation Report rejects the lone-wolf theory and the break-in so emphatically, I'm sure defense attorneys felt they had to put on witnesses who claimed to have heard RG put himself at the scene with anyone but AK and RS.

How could they risk not doing so?

As for Hendry, Umbrian courts seem to have an aversion to non-Italian expert testimony, so I'm sure the defense had no hope of getting Hendry into evidence.

Correct. They will only allow Italian experts to testify that is why all the others must consult with them that are not Italian

 

[Allusonz]

I got caught providing a direct quote from Knox's gift statement where she says that she stands behind her claims about Patrick? Okay.

Which was separated from the remaining parts she wrote thus taken out of context

 

[Allusonz]

How was she supposed to know PL was falsely accused of murder?

Even if she knew her daughter's statement was coerced, she had no way of knowing what other evidence there was against PL.

As I've shown in my previous post, her own daughter already had told ILE that her statement implicating PL was almost certainly false and yet the police were still holding PL. Why wouldn't Ms. Mellas assume ILE had good reason to do so?

She could not. Period.